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A380 Rolling Tests  
User currently offlineWelwitschia From Namibia, joined Mar 2005, 27 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 15487 times:

Just read in "Der Spiegel"(The Mirror) that the A380 is starting with rolling tests next week and that the first flight is due for end April.Does anyone have more information?

146 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 15226 times:

Makes me wonder if the blasted thing is EVER going to get off the ground  Smile

'End of April' is bad news for the publicity boys - not much chance of proving it safe in time to do a fly-by over the Paris Air Show in mid-June.

Bad news for the marketing people too. According to the orders placed, the first production A380s are supposed to be delivered in the second quarter of 2006. That looks less and less likely.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6321 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14920 times:

Is it ever going to fly! What a disappointment, I heard it would fly in early April at the latest! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14878 times:

I'd be willing to bet that the WhaleJet does eventually fly -- probably before the end of 2005.  duck 

User currently offlineBluebellyA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14834 times:

Have they at least bothered to fire up the engines? Will it start?? Curiouser and curiouser... confused 

User currently offlineUSAFMXOfficer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14820 times:

Before they do the taxi tests, I would imagine they need to do the water displacement tests first. The A380 should displace approx the same amount as an adult Beluga Whale....


44th Fighter Squadron Vampire Bats - 63 years of history
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14800 times:

Would the bureaucrats withhold certification if the WhaleJet fails the water displacement test?  duck 

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14728 times:

Quoting USAFMXOfficer (Reply 5):
The A380 should displace approx the same amount as an adult Beluga Whale....

That's nothing...more like a pod of humpbacks!  Wink


User currently offlineAgill From Sweden, joined Feb 2004, 1007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14712 times:

Most of these jokes have been told a million times by now, please invent new ones.

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14687 times:

Quoting Agill (Reply 8):
Most of these jokes have been told a million times by now, please invent new ones.

OK

Why did the A380 taxi across the road?

Because it couldn't takeoff and fly over it.

[Edited 2005-04-02 17:49:13]

User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14613 times:

Meanwhile the Boeing 777-200LR was rolled out on 15th. February and had its maiden flight on March 8th. First delivery January 2006.

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q1/nr_050308h.html

I get the feeling that this one will be a fun aeroplane. It will take 300 passengers up to 11,000 miles on 55,000 gallons of fuel. And apparently Boeing are planning some stunts with it - including talking to Qantas about London-Sydney direct, which will really be something if they can pull it off.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineAgill From Sweden, joined Feb 2004, 1007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14579 times:

Leelaw:  laughing   laughing  Good stuff haha

User currently offlineMonteycarlos From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14454 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
Bad news for the marketing people too. According to the orders placed, the first production A380s are supposed to be delivered in the second quarter of 2006. That looks less and less likely.

Well the first production 380 is being built right now so you may have to reconsider that.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
Meanwhile the Boeing 777-200LR was rolled out on 15th. February and had its maiden flight on March 8th. First delivery January 2006.

Was the 772LR a completely new aircraft? No... it was a derivative of a previous one. Keep in mind that there are very few aircraft that have attempted the things the A380 will... it will take some time.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
I get the feeling that this one will be a fun aeroplane. It will take 300 passengers up to 11,000 miles on 55,000 gallons of fuel. And apparently Boeing are planning some stunts with it - including talking to Qantas about London-Sydney direct, which will really be something if they can pull it off.

That should be fun with the five other people that may be able to travel on the flight with you due to the weight restrictions. LHR-SYD may be possible on paper... but take into account weather and weight and you have yourself a problem.



It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14398 times:

Quoting Welwitschia (Thread starter):
Just read in "Der Spiegel"(The Mirror) that the A380 is starting with rolling tests next week and that the first flight is due for end April.Does anyone have more information?

Der Spiegel also reported about "problems with the tail" some weeks ago and it's not clear whether it was pure speculation or not. I don't take everything of their stuff for real. Some sources suggest first flight to be April 18th.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
'End of April' is bad news for the publicity boys - not much chance of proving it safe in time to do a fly-by over the Paris Air Show in mid-June.

Why? Two or three weeks make not much of a difference.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
Bad news for the marketing people too. According to the orders placed, the first production A380s are supposed to be delivered in the second quarter of 2006. That looks less and less likely.

Third quarter sounds more realistic. But it's a completely new design, so no surprise at all. Boeing once caused a real mess with the B737NG introduction, so it can happen anywhere.

Quoting Agill (Reply 8):
Most of these jokes have been told a million times by now, please invent new ones.

Let them have their fun, they have to find something new soon.  Wink

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
Meanwhile the Boeing 777-200LR was rolled out on 15th. February and had its maiden flight on March 8th. First delivery January 2006.

And? It's a derivative, not a new design. Can't compare them at all.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
I get the feeling that this one will be a fun aeroplane.

Most Eco pax won't find it funny after 18-20 hour nonstops...  ill 

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
And apparently Boeing are planning some stunts with it - including talking to Qantas about London-Sydney direct, which will really be something if they can pull it off.

What would be the purpose to fly LHR-SYD nonstop while still having to stop for SYD-LHR? I doubt Qantas would purchase such an expensive aircraft for a time saving of two or three hours on one leg.


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14363 times:

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 12):
LHR-SYD may be possible on paper...

LHR-SYD would be easy for a B777-200LR with 300 passengers. The difficulty is SYD-LHR. Going west, the max payload is not more than 200 passengers, if that.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14095 times:

In defense of the A380 (OMG..what is this world coming to, I'm actually defending this Monstrosity!!...yikes), being such a large aircraft, with many new technologies, I find it to not be a big deal if its a few weeks late, or even if its a few months late........Whether or not the purchasers have taken this into consideration , I don't know, but its a bit unrealistic to nail everything down to the day or week.......

I've already posted my reasons as to why I'm not a fan of this plane, but I do believe it will fly...!!



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAerofan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13886 times:

Oh i've never heard those jokes before and they are pretty funny. Gave me a saturday morning chuckle.  Smile Any more out there?... Keep em coming please

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13825 times:

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 12):
Well the first production 380 is being built right now so you may have to reconsider that.

I didn't realize manufacturers made pre-production aircraft anymore. Perhaps you meant the first aircraft delivered to an airline (SQ-L/N 005)?

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 12):
Keep in mind that there are very few aircraft that have attempted the things the A380 will

Such as?

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15):
with many new technologies

Such as?


User currently offlineTrent900 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 527 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13744 times:

Quoting Udo (Reply 13):
Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
I get the feeling that this one will be a fun aeroplane.

Most Eco pax won't find it funny after 18-20 hour nonstops...

I totally agree with Udo. Theres no way you'll find me stuck on an aircraft for more then 16 hours (15.5 was long enough). Fare enough there are people out there willing to spend the money and pay the extra couple of grand to fly business, but not everyone, including me, has this sort of money. Give me the cheaper option with a break in-between anyday.

As for the A380. I think it was pretty bad for Airbus to give a certain date for the first flight. It is a completely new aircraft (unlike the 777LR) so unexpected things will pop-up.

T.


User currently offlineVulindlela744 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13555 times:

Please keep in mind people that this is a whole different animal. It is not a derivative of an aircraft that has been flying for 10 years already. They first said that it would fly by the end of March. Well, it is only April 2nd. Have a little patience. Every new product goes through this. CHILL OUT!!!! It'll happen.

User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 47
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13442 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 17):
Such as?

Just one example:

The A380 is the first large plane to use a high pressure hydraulic system. You certainly know hydraulics are not only used to control the flight controls, but also to brake the plane. Now, the functionality of a new system needs to be tested individually first, so it is not surprising the A380 will need to do quite a lot of taxi runs and simulated aborts, first on dry rwy without any compromising factors like crosswind etc, then in a later stage also on wet rwy and in less favourable conditions to see if the system holds as designed. Testing it takes time and depends not only on planning, but also on weather conditions.

How many hours of taxi runs has the 'new' B777-20OLR done? How many times have they simulated a take off followed by an abort? 1? 2? just like for ANY factory new plane...

Sorry, but taking a decade long existing plane, fitted with an additional fuel tank and a pair of winglets out for a first flight is just a tiny little bit less complicated than getting airborne with an all new unproven design.


User currently offlineDAL7e7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 357 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13376 times:

Quoting Udo (Reply 13):

Most Eco pax won't find it funny after 18-20 hour nonstops...

As long as there's IFE, and they know they're going to somewhere fun, I don't think it would be that bad. I mean, it'd be cheaper, wouldn't it? N/S to 1-2 stops?

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 12):

That should be fun with the five other people that may be able to travel on the flight with you due to the weight restrictions. LHR-SYD may be possible on paper... but take into account weather and weight and you have yourself a problem.

They could take out some rows and put some sort of luxury thing in between business and first. It could be a gym or small theater or some other thing. Then a smaller gym in Eco for the other pax.

Trey in TVI



DAL7e7 is wondering... Do pilots take crash courses?
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13373 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 17):
Such as?

Just to name a few innovations:

22 percent of the aircraft will consist of composites, the highest number reached in commercial aviation so far. Additionally the whole center wing box is made of carbon fiber, while the upper fuselage shell is made of GLARE.
Not to forget about the introduction of 350-bar hydraulic pressure, never used on large commercial aircraft before. And there's the use of an HVOF (High Velocity Oxygen Fuel) surface treatment process instead of chromium plating.


People denying the A380's new technological features make me just yawn...  yawn 


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13272 times:

Sabenapilot:

When did I mention the 772LR at all or gripe that testing was taking too long?

Hiss at the "professionals" at Airbus, you admire so much and are constantly gushing over, for failing to meet the expectations they set themselves.

Regards


User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13247 times:

Quoting DAL7e7 (Reply 21):
As long as there's IFE, and they know they're going to somewhere fun, I don't think it would be that bad. I mean, it'd be cheaper, wouldn't it? N/S to 1-2 stops?

IFE might be great, but that doesn't help when legs and knees are being pressed towards the seat in front.
And "nonstop" does not mean cheaper automatically. Today's C-market flights are definitely more expensive than one-stops, due to their limited capacity and payload restrictions.

Quoting DAL7e7 (Reply 21):
They could take out some rows and put some sort of luxury thing in between business and first. It could be a gym or small theater or some other thing. Then a smaller gym in Eco for the other pax.

These luxury features would not necessarily cause a weight advantage over seat rows.


Regards
Udo


25 Udo : We all know how "reliable" manufacturers' propaganda can be sometimes. How do you know Airbus missed their own internally set expectations? They migh
26 Leelaw : What did I deny?...I just asked a couple of questions. Perhaps I should display more reverence for the "holiest" Icon of Secular Europe?
27 Post contains images Udo : You questioned Jacobin's reference to new technologies used on the A380. The way you asked was quite obvious. But if you just call that a simple aski
28 Leelaw : I don't, nor do I care...never said I did.
29 Paulinbna : Every time a new longer range aircraft comes out, you get the same argument about how will people stay that long in the seat 707,747 747SP, A340-500.
30 Udo : We are talking about 16, 18 or 20 hours. I doubt a majority of passengers finds it comfortable to be seated in a cramped Eco class for such a long ti
31 Leelaw : I've done LAX/SIN/LAX and EWR/SIN/EWR in executive economy (2-3-2 seating) and it's quite bearable. I personally prefer this alternative than hanging
32 Zvezda : How much passengers enjoy being on a plane for 16 or 18 or 20 hours is really not the question. The question is: Will passenger (or their employers) p
33 Udo : But passengers who do not like to be put into a cramped tube for 18 hours are less likely to pay. I know it's payload restricted. My point was their
34 Glideslope : That is all fine and dandy. Will it fly? I'm not as sure as I was 6m ago. Will it be within 3% of the claimed Airbus performance? Unlikely. All the t
35 Sabenapilot : For as far as you guys all know, Airbus might just be waiting for a few perfectly dry days in Toulouse to pull the largest passenger plane in the worl
36 Post contains images Udo : The discussion was simply about the fact that a combination of new technologies takes its time. Which experience? And which 624 exaggerations? And wh
37 Post contains images Lehpron : lol, I agree, but it is better safe than sorry. Remember Concorde was tested for 4000 hours before it went into service, I don't know how many hours
38 ChrisNH : This is like the mother that frets because the other woman's mother has a baby that learned to walk or talk two weeks before theirs did. Sheesh...we a
39 M27 : With respect Udo, what would be a reliable source for you?
40 Leelaw : Didn't say I wanted anything...I merely had the utter temerity to ask a couple of pointed questions. However, I will venture to say that, IMO, the A3
41 Udo : Serious newspapers (the ones which do not refer to rumours), respected aviation business magazines, comments from customers, or something directly fr
42 Post contains images Lehpron : I will agree with that and though 787 may simply be reduced to a perfection of that technology...they are all still a subsonics. In all fairness ther
43 Airways6max : Knew it would never get off the ground.
44 Revelation : Seems to me the ones who are pointing out the (presumed) delays in the flight testing program would also be the ones to point out any issues that wou
45 Mark_D. : There's so much societally-indoctrinated raw hatred against anything non-American, it's really quite crippling for those so afflicted. As for the A380
46 Theredbaron : Id love to see if this trend continues....380 bashing, and Airbus plays along, then on Paris Air show they appear unexpectedly and land the "whale" je
47 OzGlobal : Big deal! A model variant. Was the 747 entirely without slippage on all its testing milestones? If not, why are we having this conversation? The A380
48 OzGlobal : Futher to that, those of you who have a neurotic aversion to this aircraft because it is not American (and yes, that is the reason) would spend your
49 Monteycarlos : Yeah sorry, that is the leg I meant... wrong way around. Well they do... The various different sections are already in manufacture at the various Eur
50 Leelaw : Plain wrong. Every airframe assembled, with the exception of LN 001 and the airframe used for static testing, will eventually be delivered to custome
51 Post contains links NAV20 : Personally I’ve been surprised by the almost ‘religious’ faith the A380 fans are placing in an aeroplane that hasn’t even succeeded in leaving
52 Post contains images NAV20 : Sorry - went on twice, how do you delete on here? [Edited 2005-04-03 06:33:03]
53 Udo : I haven't seen anyone in this thread showing religious-like faith. It's just confidence and realistic optimism. It's not intolerance at all, it's jus
54 Post contains images Iwok : I suspect that Airbus engineering has an internal schedule that they are comfortable with and that marketing got all over them to try a make a big sp
55 A380900 : You're right. I am more and more amazed by the rage with which nationalistic Americans are considering the A380. I mean whenever I read some random n
56 Post contains links NAV20 : Udo, about price, this suggests that Qantas and others are getting their A380s at $150M., a $70M. discount - if that isn't 'giving it away', I don't k
57 Post contains images Udo : Are you dreaming? Maybe on the non-av forum, but not not here. I don't know one typical Boeing basher while I could name quite a number of permanent
58 Udo : Well said. Strange that many of those whose grandparents once teached my countrymen lessons in tolerance apparently are in serious need for these ver
59 Iwok : Exactly my point. What happens on this forum all the time is you get righty and lefty wackos on from all over the world who start trying their best t
60 Post contains images Zvezda : Whatever the American detractors and doubters of the A380 might think (or hope), I think that when Airbus finally does get to the rolling tests, that
61 PlanesNTrains : I believe most reasonable people on this forum realize that there is a two way street in the A vs B mentality. I think I posted in another message tha
62 Udo : Of course, prestige plays a role, the world's largest passenger plane is a key product for Europe's industry. But as I said before, people should not
63 Leelaw : The A300, less than 30 years after WW II, was the admirable talisman of European integration and cooperation. Unfortunately, a mere thirty years late
64 Monteycarlos : Come again... I'm afraid you've gone off on a tangent. Can you explain what you mean? Did you mean it that way? haha... we already know it can roll.
65 Leelaw : Here's a summary the whole dialogue...Am I on a tangent or are you confused?
66 Monteycarlos : Yes I am.... I am saying that I read an article and saw a picture of A Singapore Airlines A380 Tail being shipped to wherever to await final assembly
67 Leelaw : LN 005 with the SQ tail is not the first "production" aircraft (all airframes off the line are "production" aircraft), it's the presumedly the first p
68 Post contains images Zvezda : I'm not sure that will satisfy the rolling tests for certification -- the nose gear was raised off the tarmac while it was being tugged. Now, I'm not
69 Monteycarlos : Still a little lost... which airframe will be the first "production" A388 then? Does anyone know yet or are we assuming that MSN 001 will be kept by
70 Post contains images Bigsmile : MSN001 will be kept by Airbus. There will be 4 aircraft used for the certification MSN001 being one of them. The other 3 will then go to their releva
71 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Must admit, Monteycarlos, I'm already feeling a sharp pain in the hip-pocket. Our respective governments (Federal, Vic., and NSW) are hastening to spe
72 Sabenapilot : Some insight in the test program for the coming weeks. At present, the A380 has successfully completed engine start tests, meaning all 4 engines were
73 OzGlobal : Iwok, I'm not sure what you are repsonding to, but it certainly isn't my post. I concede in the post that, for the reasons I gave, it is possible to
74 NorCal : Yes there are definitely many more A380 concern threads on here than 787 ones. I think once the 787 gets further along in development then we will se
75 Zvezda : That is an interesting point. The B787 is a riskier program in terms of timing, unforeseeable problems, schedule slippage, etc. Once the WhaleJet is
76 Post contains images HAWK21M : The Title should have read Taxi tests.Initially Rolling sounds Surprising. regds MEL
77 Dsa : I heard that it would be in early April as evry1 has said but it has been delayed due to technical reasons! But we should'nt critiscise airbus, it is
78 Janne : I read that there seems to be some A380 jokes out there so I just invented this one: "Is it a bird, is it a plane or is it ... SUPERMAN?" "It is an A3
79 Post contains images Co7772wuh : I feel that many EU leaders wanted to build a Super Jumpo , so they did ! The A380 is Europes airplane . I admire Europeans pride in there country . T
80 Post contains links Leelaw : Just for kicks I looked up some historical information concerning the 747 for comparison purposes. 741 Chronology Highlights: First Order - 04/13/66 R
81 Post contains images Nomad : The A380 is not for the rich, in fact with 20% lower operating costs than its competitors it should make air travel more affordable. I believe that th
82 OzGlobal : Good contribution, Leelaw. This is really pertinent information.
83 OzGlobal : Answer: The whole A380 business case is about lower seat/km cost, even with reduced, more spacious seating plans. The airlines, all profitable, premi
84 Pixuk : I think you may have fallen into a non causa pro causa fallacy there. Because airlines have been putting much PR spin behind lower numbers of passeng
85 Pipo777 : I am pretty sure monteycarlos was joking dude....
86 Post contains images Lehpron : Be mindful of what you perceive as such...not just you this is a warning to everyone who has read this. There is a very big difference between: Belie
87 Post contains images Zvezda : Did you notice the smilie after my post? Did you consider that I might have been joking? And that the smilie indicated that? I hope at least someone
88 Aerofan : Nav51, "Personally I’ve been surprised by the almost ‘religious’ faith the A380 fans are placing in an aeroplane that hasn’t even succeeded in
89 Pixuk : Lehpron, I agree with every single one of the points you make. Thank you for restoring my confidence in the art of reasoned discussion on a.net! Pete
90 Post contains links Pihero : An interesting piece of detective info :Interavia/Air&Cosmos are calling advertisers to be "part of their A380 first flight celebration number" for th
91 Lehpron : I have to be careful on how to respond to this. If we are going like 15% faster, then same price; if faster then more expensive. Think about what peo
92 Daedaeg : The whining from some of you people is getting old and tired. I think we should be able to have good discussions on the A380 without always crying abo
93 Post contains images Lehpron : That is sweet dude, but quite technically, the chances that I might have done it for you are bleak. If you truly thought reasoned discussion was lack
94 Leelaw : This is fanciful indeed. If the VLA market is in fact that lucrative, there will be a challenge; perhaps from the very Asian markets they seek to pro
95 Monteycarlos : I did. I like whales.
96 Zvezda : There is zero chance of this coming to pass. Why? If there is little demand, then there obviously won't be a cash cow for Airbus, but a niche market
97 NAV20 : About this longhaul business, people should try living here in Australia! We already face up to 14 hours just to get to California! My personal situa
98 Areopagus : For perspective: After Northrop had scheduled the first flight of the B-2, they announced a one-week delay to check out the hydraulic system. Congress
99 Lehpron : Like I said before, be mindful of your perspectives; I am not liable for what you think I mean, you are free to ask questions. I do not yet believe t
100 Leelaw : You have no reason to be so haughty and deriding in tone since you caused the "perceived" problem. You hadn't articulated this "opinion" before in th
101 Zvezda : Please say what you mean. If you don't, we won't be able to expect that you mean what you say. As Leelaw points out, it is not our responsibility to
102 Leelaw : Zvezda: Thanks for succinctly translating my verbal diarrhea in reply 100! Regards[Edited 2005-04-04 14:01:10][Edited 2005-04-04 14:02:15]
103 Zvezda : I hope I gave you satisfactory credit for the excellent argument. I just sharpened it a bit. Welcome to my Respected Users List!!
104 Post contains images NAV20 : That 's odd - I thought i was quoting CO7772wuh from post 79? No matter....... It isn't a matter of 'rich or poor'. The A380 is at least four tons ov
105 Post contains images Udo : How do you know it is over weight by "at least four tons"? Please stop re-bubbling pure rumours and speculation, they don't get better by permanent r
106 Leelaw : How about when passengers check-in online or at an automated machine at the airport?
107 Post contains images Lehpron : I did mean what I said, I always use very specific words such that there is only one conclusion, unless I state otherwise. I am fully aware that peop
108 ContnlEliteCMH : That's a pretty huge loss leader. I'm glad you're not managing *my* portfolio, if you think it's okay to potentially lose billions of dollars for som
109 Braybuddy : Boeing went after an even smaller market 35 years ago with a larger (in comparison to anything flying at the time) aircraft and succeeded beyond thei
110 ContnlEliteCMH : There are obvious and notable differences. First and foremost, air travel was not a price-driven commodity in 1970 because the American market was re
111 Braybuddy : My point exactly. The A380 is less of a risk because of the growth in air travel since 1970, and it's predicted to grow, despite the disasters of the
112 Ozglobal : Aerofan, have you got any idea how ridiculous this sounds to someone like myself, living in Europe, who, if I want to visit my family and friends in
113 Braybuddy : Dream on . . .
114 Post contains links NAV20 : About these endless refutations of my point about the weight/passenger problem, posting links doesn't seem to do any good, so I'll put the actual word
115 Post contains images Udo : I Germany alone the A380 project has been a job machine over the last years. Many suppliers benefit from the program and their R&D for the A380 can a
116 Post contains images NAV20 : It's the 'shoot from the hip' ignorance that is so tiresome, Udo . Please check your facts now and again. As I said, the vast majority of those airli
117 Sabenapilot : No fancy quotes or links here, just some insight information (those who know me, know they should take them serious). The A380 WAS indeed overweight t
118 Post contains images WunalaYann : Ok, my first post in the A vs B war. *fingers shaking because nervous* The A380 seems to be the focal point for the passions on both sides, and the (F
119 Post contains links and images Udo : Never throw with stones while sitting in a glass house...and you have been sitting in a huge glass house for several days...*yawn* That's a good one!
120 NAV20 : Sabenapilot, thanks for confirming that there is indeed a weight problem. Accepting that it is now less than four tons, can you tell us how much it is
121 Post contains images Udo : I'd like to see ONE source which clearly shows QF and SIA once had indeed planned to put 550 seats on the aircraft. And even if they once had - I'd l
122 Udo : He didn't say there IS a problem, he only said there WAS one. Nobody knows that exactly apart from Airbus insiders. But it would be foolish to think
123 Sabenapilot : There is NO weight issue for the A380 at all, since ALL planes which will be delivered to the customers, will meet the latest communicated performanc
124 NAV20 : So why are NONE of the purchasers putting in the full 550 seats, Sabenapilot? And presumably any question of up to 800 passengers in 'cattletruck' con
125 Udo : Emirates will put more onto the plane. And as I said before, there's no need for exactly 550 seats in three classes when you can offer upgraded comfo
126 NAV20 : Part of where I'm coming from, Udo, is that my governments (federal and state) are already spending $150M. on airport improvements - including extra b
127 Sabenapilot : Don't know about the precise reasons of that, but do operators nomally fly their planes in the standard configurations proposed by the manufacturer?
128 Post contains images Sabenapilot : Just how many B747s do you know that really offer 500+ seats on long haul flights??? Besides, the modifications for the A380 will also allow for the
129 Monteycarlos : They are also spending billions of dollars on other things that don't affect you. Why do you care so much? You'll pay the same amount of tax regardle
130 NAV20 : Dunno, Sabenapilot. But when I was connected with civil aviation, it was all 'bums on seats', 'seat-miles', load factors. I can imagine one or two of
131 Zvezda : I think Airbus may meet the promised performance goals by a combination of shaving off some of the 4 tonnes and aerodynamic improvements. The weight r
132 NAV20 : My feeling exactly, Zvezda......
133 Leelaw : Most likely answer. EK's anticipated delivery schedule is relatively protracted: 06 - 4 07 - 4 08 - 8 09 - 8 10 - 3 11 - 16 Source: Airways (anticipa
134 Lehpron : How on Earth does it not fitting to full specified circa 2005 mean anything? The plane's market will not even exist for another 5-10 years, so it wil
135 Leelaw : Perhaps there is some significance because the operation cost savings comparisons over the 744 are based on these specifications?
136 NAV20 : It's not a matter of configuration. If the airlines concerned were putting in more first-class/business-class seats and fewer coach, and finishing up
137 Morvious : I realy like to read these forums, but threads like these are getting bored. If you look back, more then 20 posts are in my eyes not related to the to
138 Pixuk : You really have got hung up on this weight issue, when any rational person who has endured this thread would have come to the conclusion that any wei
139 Post contains images Udo : Wow, another jump to another issue totally irrelevant for the current discussion about possible seat numbers on the A380... 100 more than on current
140 Zvezda : Yes, yields are just as important as loads. One absolutely needs at least one of the two, but it's best to have both.
141 MD11Engineer : Ok, I heard on German TV news today (ZDF, 19.00 hrs news), statement by Airbus management,that all preliminary tests on the A380 have been finished an
142 NorCal : Airbus is going to be doing these tests using 4 a/c correct? Does Singapore get one of these a/c or are they going to get one that hasn't gone throug
143 Leelaw : These tests/simulations will be conducted on the ground using the static test airframe which isn't fully outfitted with engines, etc., in a test rig.
144 Zvezda : The WhaleJet airframe used for fatigue testing will not be delivered to a customer. Airbus will keep it and probably use it for things like qualifyin
145 NoUFO : Either way it's irrelevant for Airbus. Airbus' largest plane in service is the A346 with some 345 seats (Airbus' standard 3-class configuration: 380
146 Leelaw : This doesn't seem likely because at some point in the testing process at least one of the wings will be "bent" to the point of failure.
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