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AR: FAA Makes Exception & Lets 744s Fly To The U.S  
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2537 posts, RR: 31
Posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3372 times:

Since Argentina is labeled Category 2 by the FAA, LV registered planes cannot fly commercial flights to the US. Foreign airlines from Cat2 countries have to wet-lease planes with Cat1 countries regs and foreign crews in order to be allowed to fly to the US.

This exception made by the FAA was done after a complete and throughout research of AR's ops.

Source (Spanish):

http://www.unionradio.com.ve/Noticias/Noticia.aspx?NoticiaId=134167


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14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3288 posts, RR: 31
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3257 times:

Any idea of which airports they will serve?


"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2537 posts, RR: 31
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3248 times:

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 1):
Any idea of which airports they will serve?

JFK and MIA


User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3184 times:
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What's the safety issue with AR ??

Any incidents in the US previously ?



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offlineAhlfors From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 1339 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3152 times:

Who else thinks the FAA Category 2 rules on aircraft are counter-productive. When a country goes Category 2, its airlines are allowed to continue current flights to US, under extra surveillance. However, the airlines are not allowed to add/change routes or even change the aircraft operating a route. End result: foreign airlines are forced to fly OLDER planes because they can't replace their old planes flying to the US with newer, more safe planes. Who came up with this stupidity.

User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3126 times:

What will fly to MAD then, the old B747-200s?

I saw a AR B747-200 today at MAD



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineDCAjet From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 398 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2732 times:

Quote:
Since Argentina is labeled Category 2 by the FAA, LV registered planes cannot fly commercial flights to the US.

That is not entirely accurate: Under Cat. 2 rules, any airline from a Cat. 2 labeled country that wishes to initiate service to the US is not allowed to do so, unless it leases planes with Cat. 1 countries reg and foreign crews in order to be allowed to fly to the US (the latter is not completely allowed under Argentinean law, it would have to be a combination of local+foreign crew (as it was the case when Southern Winds flew to Miami: Air Atlanta+A4 crew)). HOWEVER, in the case of existing service , such as AR (since 1950!!), it is restricted to the existing destinations (JFK, MIA) and may not change equipment. Aerolineas won approval to add the 744 fleet to the existing 742 and 340 flights, to both MIA & JFK. AR's been wanting to return to LAX (it pulled out of it in 2000, when it went into Argentina's equivalent of Chapter 11 "Concurso Preventivo de Acreedores", but still holds the authority to fly there). AR began flying to LAX in 1969 with 707s and moved on to 742 and 310 in the 80s and 90s.

I suppose the question is why is Argentina in Cat II (since 2002)? Sources in B. Aires say this has a lot to do with the cancellation of the Open Skies agreement between the US and Argentina, in 2001, and very little to do with Commercial Aviation Oversight by the Argentinean authorities. Unfortunately for Argentina, the current Kirchner administration has no commercial aviation policy whatsoever: therefore the issue seems not to be a top priority for them (and since it directly affects Aerolineas, then it less of an urgency, given the little love lost between AR and the Kirchner administration). In the meantime, AA adds a daily flight to EZE from DFW, a third AA MIA daily is in the works, UA adds a second daily service, this time from ORD, and DL returns to EZE from ATL, daily. It seems the only beneficiary from this silly policy are the US carriers: it shows when a government cares about their airlines (US) and the Argentinean approach (we give a toss...)

My .02 cents from DC!!!!



"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
User currently offlineYu138086 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2666 times:

The decision to downgrade AR to Cat2 was largely political and came shortly after Argentina's currency devaluation in 2001. Now that Argentina is "up from the ashes" and out of default good things start happeneing.
Cat2 was also used to coerce AR into buying Boeing aircraft instead of Airbus for any future type of fleet renewal. It was carrot and stick politics by the US govnt through the FAA.

PS. Are you all aware that each week AR much transfer US$55K to an escrow account in New York because the US legacy carriers protested AR's payment of EZE landing fees in ARG Pesos while the Americans had to pay in US dollars? ... Current balance is approx. $US6 million and growing.


User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2537 posts, RR: 31
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2606 times:

Quoting DCAjet (Reply 6):
That is not entirely accurate: Under Cat. 2 rules, any airline from a Cat. 2 labeled country that wishes to initiate service to the US is not allowed to do so, unless it leases planes with Cat. 1 countries reg and foreign crews in order to be allowed to fly to the US

Did u read completely my post? I think I said just that...


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32189 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2484 times:

Quoting DCAjet (Reply 6):
UA adds a second daily service, this time from ORD,

UA has reduced service to Argentina since it was Cat II. They used to offer dailies from Miami, O'Hare, and JFK. Now they offer two daily flights, Dulles and O'Hare.



a.
User currently offlineMarambio From Argentina, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2435 times:

Good evening gentlemen,

Just let me clarify some things on this thread.

The FAA has conceded AR this exceptional authorization mainly because the airline has sent its pilots to UA's facilities in Denver to gain some type-rating. AR is not going to use these planes for their MIA and JFK operations, but gains some flexibility for the eventual case of an unscheduled equipment change on those flights. The A340s (which are used for all the US-flights) have a very tight schedule and when one of them is not available usually a 747-200 is used to replace it. As AR currently only has two 742s, the permission to operate the 744s is good flexibilitywise only.

Actually it would be more useful to get the same permission for the A310s, since AR's project is to increase MIA to daily using A310s (at least on some of the frequencies), but who knows if that's going to happen.

Saludos,
Marambio



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2537 posts, RR: 31
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2277 times:

Quoting Marambio (Reply 10):
is to increase MIA to daily using A310s

What's AR weekly frequency to MIA?


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2258 times:

Kirchner's problem with anything that flies is far simpler than it looks:

He's a flipping PENGUIN, and a jackass* one at that!!!

Saludos,

ZXV

*actually another name for Magellanic penguins.



How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineDCAjet From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 398 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2123 times:

Quote:
UA has reduced service to Argentina since it was Cat II. They used to offer dailies from Miami, O'Hare, and JFK. Now they offer two daily flights, Dulles and O'Hare.

Indeed, UA has reduced service to EZE, but not as a result of Argentina's Cat. II, but rather, as a result of their trip to Chapter 11, among other things. All service out of Miami into Brazil and Argentina has been withdrawn, as part of their reorganization - only domestic services are flown into MIA these days. All JFK flights to GRU & EZE were moved to IAD, as UA operates a hub there, so, while O&D traffic may be less, there are far more opportunities to connect. And it proved the right thing to do on both moves: flights to GRU & EZE from either ORD & IAD are a success both from yields and occ. factors, while RG, their Star Alliance partner, can take care of JFK & MIA.



"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
User currently offlineMarambio From Argentina, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 26
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 11):
What's AR weekly frequency to MIA?

AR flies EZE-MIA 4x weekly.

Saludos,
Marambio



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
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