Nwafflyer From United States, joined Jul 2004, 970 posts, RR: 3 Posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5820 times:
I think the SAAB would look great in the new colors -- especially, the old, 'spotted one' (that's a pre Mesaba SAAB)
I also wish NWA would do more with the SAAB's, and less with the CRJ's -- my 'most hated plane' these days is the CRJ -- it's fine on a 50% full flight, but other than that, it's just plain ugly. Can I ride as baggage? That would be more comfortable, or, how do I buy 2 seats on a CRJ, but only 1 each on the connecting flight? The Brazilian jets are more comfortable -- if you get the 'A' side, then they're just like the SAAB, but faster.
I'm a big NWA fan, platinum now for over 5 years, but am almost ready now for AirTran just to avoid the CRJ
Nwafflyer From United States, joined Jul 2004, 970 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5799 times:
LOL -- I can believe that -- but who/what is the old sort of brownish grey spotted SAAB? I see her in DTW and in MEM, I'd love to get a chance to fly on her
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States, joined Jan 2002, 4840 posts, RR: 30 Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5776 times:
That was only 1 aircraft that had corrosion issues, the vast majority of the Saabs should be fine. 106 was improperly painted by a previous owner and it was over 15 years old. The 3 remaining A models came from previous owners. The 10 B's came over from Express I (Pinnacle) and the 50 B+'s were delivered new to Mesaba.106 was 15+ years old. The B+'s were delivered new between 1996 and 1998 so they should be in good shape and not have corrosion issues. In terms of repainting the Saab flight, nothing for certain right now.
NW will keep Mesaba's fleet of Saabs around for the forseeable future. They allow NW to maintain a presence in markets that cannot be economically served by RJ's. The goal is to use the Saab's to enter high yielding small communities. As more CRJ's come online, the Saabs have been redeployed to
open up new routes or add additional frequencies.
I agree the Saab is more comfortable than the CRJ. Get an A seat and its quite comfortable. The CRJ is only good if you have an empty seat next to you.
Nwafflyer From United States, joined Jul 2004, 970 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5765 times:
And, it is more comfortable than a CRJ - and so what if it's weight restricted? It get where it's supposed to go (and back). Why would any sane human prefer a CRJ to a SAAB???????
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States, joined Jan 2002, 4840 posts, RR: 30 Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5746 times:
The Saabs are fine for the purpose they serve. They are a turboprop aircraft and meant to serve smaller communities. You have to put things in perspective.
Counterpoints:
Weight restricted - can be a problem sometimes usually on bad weather days, but the B+'s don't have this problem as much. (Can be nice if you are flexible - an easy way to bring up a free voucher)
Slow - time savings is minimal compared to jets on the routes they fly. On a 300 mile flight, a Saab will only take about 5-10 minutes more than the CRJ. The CRJ spends all its time on climb/descent.
Noisy - ok, well the Saab can be loud. I can see why some people don't like it. Personality I enjoy the noise, the turboprop provides a more intimate flying experience.
Uncomfortable - The Saab has about the same seat pitch as the CRJ. And there is no single seat on the CRJ's, like the A side of the Saab's. The cabin on the Saab actually has more overhead room than the CRJ
Its in the special Anniversary color scheme. It shows the route map in the rear of the aircraft. It was painted in these colors when it was delivered back in 1998.
As for 106, it was to be repainted due to an AD, and when they stripped the paint they found significant corrosion that was not cost-effective to repair.
EMBQA From United States, joined Oct 2003, 8372 posts, RR: 19 Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5682 times:
I think they're afraid of what they'll find when they strip all that old paint off.
That whole issue is only appliciable to airframes that have been repainted since leaving the factory. NONE of XJ's Saab 340B+'s have been repainted.
Keep in mind, the issues mentioned above, weight restrictions and uncomfortable seats are operator choices....not an airframe issue. The Saab 340's my former airline flew had MUCH better, thicker padding on their leather seats. I've sat in an XJ Saab seat and I can't stand it for 10 minutes...it's like sitting on a brick. Same thing for weight restrictions...that is driven by the airlines Flight Operations department. I have been told by other pilots that XJ has very restrictive flight operations standards.
[Edited 2005-04-03 01:09:55]
[Edited 2005-04-03 01:11:06]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
EMBQA From United States, joined Oct 2003, 8372 posts, RR: 19 Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5620 times:
I've wondered how accurite the route maps on 439 and 441 still are with all the adjusments that have been made over the years since they where built. A neat bit of information....439 and 441 done by a painter from a custom motorcycle shop near the factory in Sweden. The 'route maps' are decals, but all the rest is airbrushed.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
Supa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5566 times:
I prefer Dash-8s or even Beechcraft 1900D, both of which I find quieter. and smoother. But the Saabs are incredibly well built, according to one mechanic I spoke to... a long-lasting and tough plane.
NLINK From United States, joined Nov 2003, 312 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5418 times:
One of the main reason the SAABS are so weight restricted at XJ is because they always carry way to much fuel and there burn rate is always on the high side, plus way to much reserves. A 34 seat airplane should never be only to carry 30 pax max on a 320ish mile run, crazy, with the flight time of 55 minutes in the CRJ vs 1 25 min in the Saab. Finally with the pax raising cain to NW and the airport there are only 2 days left.
The Saab causes us a big headache, XJ policies are so backwards compared to NW and 9E.
We have had more cancelations for the 3 months with the XJ Saab breaking than the Jets the past 12 months.
We have days where we are stuck to 27/28 with the B+, that is totally insane.
KaiGywer From United States, joined Oct 2003, 11102 posts, RR: 43 Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5414 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 12): I've wondered how accurite the route maps on 439 and 441 still are with all the adjusments that have been made over the years since they where built. A neat bit of information....439 and 441 done by a painter from a custom motorcycle shop near the factory in Sweden. The 'route maps' are decals, but all the rest is airbrushed.
As of last fall, they were pretty inaccurate, ex-MSP anyways. More point to point and two stop routes than now.
Never Underestimate the Power of Stupid People in Large Groups
NLINK From United States, joined Nov 2003, 312 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5284 times:
The XJ Saab has a pitch of 30 inches and a seat width of 16 inches, while the 9E CRJ has a pitch of 31 inches and a width of 17.17 inches. Plus the CRJ has 1 more inch of headroom in the cabin over the Saab.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States, joined Jan 2002, 4840 posts, RR: 30 Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5227 times:
Oh wow, such a difference I can almost notice a difference of an inch.....
Seriously its so close it the same thing.
Nwafflyer From United States, joined Jul 2004, 970 posts, RR: 3 Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3860 times:
And I'll fly on a SAAB any day over a CRJ -- the "a" side gives you some space, the noise doesn't matter, it's actually enjoyable. And, as has been pointed out, the time is almost immaterial. Climbing down the steps on a CRJ can be pretty treacherous too - the hand rails are a long way from the cabin, it would be easy to fall
Of course, I much prefer the dc-9, but hey, give me a SAAB
N1120A From United States, joined Dec 2003, 23431 posts, RR: 88 Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3797 times:
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 7): Slow - time savings is minimal compared to jets on the routes they fly. On a 300 mile flight, a Saab will only take about 5-10 minutes more than the CRJ. The CRJ spends all its time on climb/descent.
On a 300 mile flight, a Brasilia or Dash-8 will be just as fast as a CRJ, while the Saab is 10 minutes slower. Saabs are also much more often weight resricted than Brasilias.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States, joined Jan 2002, 4840 posts, RR: 30 Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3764 times:
I find it hard to believe the Dash is faster than the Saab, but I could be wrong. Weight restrictions all vary by operator and by the routes that are being flown.
As for time savings, 10 minutes doesn't make any difference. Taxi times at any hub airport can vary by more than 10 minutes, masking in the time savings of prop vs. jet.
N1120A From United States, joined Dec 2003, 23431 posts, RR: 88 Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3745 times:
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 21): As for time savings, 10 minutes doesn't make any difference. Taxi times at any hub aircraft can vary by more than 10 minutes, masking in the time savings of prop vs. jet.
From my experience, props usually are the ones that get the shaft (no pun intended ) for taxi time, especially at LAX. Only one turboprop flight I have ever been on has not had to cross the 50 yard line. And a Q400 is most definately faster than a SF340
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States, joined Jan 2002, 4840 posts, RR: 30 Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3695 times:
Yeah, the Q400 of course, but I was refering more to the 100/200/300's. Us folks on the East coast don't have those Q400's, plus they are in a completely different class than the Saab.
N1120A From United States, joined Dec 2003, 23431 posts, RR: 88 Reply 25, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3288 times:
Quoting A3xx900 (Reply 24): Lol.... "The Saab" is as accurate as "The Airbus" or "The Boeing"....
In the US, it is completely accurate. They are all SF340s here.
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 23): Yeah, the Q400 of course, but I was refering more to the 100/200/300's.
The Q100/200/300 cruises at 285kts, while the SF340A does 271 and the SF340B does 283
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
26 Nwafflyer: What is the longest distance, non-stop on a SAAB in the US? I've managed 400 miles, not certain if there is anything further
27 EMBQA: What is the longest distance, non-stop on a SAAB in the US? I've managed 400 miles, not certain if there is anything further As in scheduled..? I've b
28 TatTVC: 411 is the closest that a NW (Mesaba) SAAB will get to the new paint job. To plainly answer the original question, the SAAB is the only A/C that will
29 JBo: That has been debated several times, and it was announced (I forget officially or unofficially) that both types were to receive the new colors. That'
30 Nwafflyer: Lovely plane - sad the FNT flights are about gone now -- I'll have to try Peoria, or Moline And, my question was, what was the longest scheduled fligh
31 Azjubilee: TatTVC must be Maiznblues little brother... spouting things he knows nothing about. The saabs WILL be painted... after the 3 avros a saab is probably
32 Nwafflyer: I've gone home - DTW to FNT so many times on a SAAB, I miss that now, but again, any chance I have, I'll pick a Mesaba SAAB over a Pinnacle CRJ. I do
33 SonOfACaptain: What about the Saab 2000? Didn't a carrier use to operate that? (Chicago Express maybe) Not positive though. Wow, awesome picture man. Chautauqua Air
34 N1120A: Currently, no one does, and I believe they had certification issues. Several private carriers own them, including some NASCAR teams
35 PSU.DTW.SCE: Beat me to it AZJ, Lets not start the XJ/9E debate, both are good at what they do, and its stupid to in-fighting between the two. Both have their good
36 SonOfACaptain: Thanks for the quick answer. I think the 2000 is a beautiful plane. -SOAC
37 Timmsp: I've flown MSP-SBN-MSP on the Saab a few times....not something I particularly enjoyed. CRJ was about 55 minutes in flight time vs. 80 minutes in the
38 Ejmmsu: Another thing that I've noticed about NW and XJ is that they have no qualms about putting saabs on somewhat longer routes, such as TRI-MEM, TRI-DTW, a
39 Hammer: I just recently flew the LEX-MEM trip...not bad, but it kinda grew long near the end....but all in all for one of the longest SAAB flights, I would do
40 SonOfACaptain: US still has some prop flights that round up more to 2 hours in length. -SOAC
41 PSU.DTW.SCE: Some of the longer Saab flights in the NW system (over 375 miles) MEM-TRI 437 MSP-SBN 411 DTW-TRI 399 DTW-AVP (starts tomorrow) 398 DTW-ROA 382 DTW-CH
42 KcrwFlyer: holy wow! how long are those flights? especially mem-tri.
43 VEEREF: So it's really not the aircraft but the airline's fuel policy that is the issue. Never been bumped off a weight restricted RJ on a 1.5 hour flight? B
44 Ejmmsu: I guess its a testament to the sheer length of the state of tennessee that TRI-DTW is shorter than DTW-MEM.
45 EMBQA: Currently, no one does, and I believe they had certification issues. Several private carriers own them, including some NASCAR teams There are only 3 S
46 Flying_727: I love Mesaba's red tubes, and i hope they keep them that way. I did fly on Mesaba in March, and many of the 340's are faded and need repainted. flyin
47 Jderden777: i remember sitting on a saab for 2.5 hours from tri to mem about a year and a half ago... won't do that again...
48 Azjubilee: The saabs are getting repainted... as well as new cloth seat covers (blue) and new carpet. AZJ
49 NLINK: The sad thing is on a run that 9E flew the exact same airplane (old B model) we would carry 2300-2400 on a day with no alt and 2800 max with an alt of
50 KaiGywer: AZJ, you sure about the cloth? Last I heard is that they're keeping the leather, just dyeing it blue.
51 Azjubilee: NLINK - did you ever consider the fact that Mesaba has more strict policies for SAFETY reasons. Like we don't board with an engine running, like 9E us
52 DIJKKIJK: The worst flight I had in my life was on a NWA SAAB (DTW-BMI) Noisy and cramped, with the F/A's wearing ear plugs! Terrible!
53 PSU.DTW.SCE: I always love how people bash the Saab, cuz they expect a 747-400 on route into po-dunk towns like BMI.....
54 Cumulonimbus: NLINK, By the way I am a Worldperks member and Love NWA. But just to let you Know I fly CO alot more then NWA now. Why? One Reason CRJ!! It is the one
55 DIJKKIJK: NWA 747-400s aren't much better either.
56 Azjubilee: VPS is all mainline... using DC9s. I don't think CRJs ever went to VPS. For awhile the avro was sed on some segments. AZJ
57 Cumulonimbus: Maybe I got confused with Panama city? Since I use both airports. Well the last time I tried to book a Flight on NWA to VSP she said it would be a CR
58 Bobnwa: Cumulonimbus, From what city did you fly CO to either VPS or PFN to avoid the CRJ?
59 Cumulonimbus: Have not flown it yet But I will On the 23rd of May. Route is as Follows... BWI-CLE-TPA-VPS. Return on the 25 VSP-TPA-CLE-BWI.
60 TransSwede: > Lol.... "The Saab" is as accurate as "The Airbus" or "The Boeing".... In the US, it is completely accurate. They are all SF340s here. So if the onl
61 Azjubilee: PFN has had saabs and now CRJs. VPS has never been an airlink city... only filling in when loads were poor. And even when the loads we're "poor" the a
62 Bobnwa: Cumulonimbus, You did not avoid any NW CRJ'S on that route. As AZJ stated, NW has never flown CRJ's to VPS. So just what is it you are avoiding?
63 JBo: Quite possibly. But of course, Boeing has many more models to choose from than Saab. With Saab, it's one of two options.
64 NLINK: If XJ managment plans on running that much fuel then 9E old B models should have 3 seats taken out to make them 27 seaters and the B+ down to 30 seats
65 Nwafflyer: And, on a flight like DTW to FNT, how much fuel is required? And I've seen passengers bumped on that flight over and over again -- I cannot imagine a
66 NLINK: The XJ operations of the SF340 is the main problem with them, other airlines dont have the same trouble with the SF340 with weight restricions as they
67 Nwafflyer: Well, just to express a non-technical opinion here -- I don't like the XJ operation at all -- if I fly out of an XJ (Mesaba) station, I always have a
68 NLINK: XJ stations that handle NW or 9E flights (cough DTW for 9E flights) are the worst performing cities in the system for 9E/NW.
69 PSU.DTW.SCE: I'd love to know the basis for these complains (other than DTW - everyone knows there are chronic staffing problems there, but they'd still exist if i
70 NLINK: There will only be a few contracted station out after june, PFN, PNS, TLH will all become 9E again soon. CO does a good job handleing 9E, DL did a hor
71 Nwafflyer: Oh, great -- Bangor goes away from Delta? Even though I hate the CRJ, flying to BGR beats a 1100 mile drive and is faster. I got so irritated with the
72 PSU.DTW.SCE: Did CO take over in SAV? It used to be DGS - what a horrible operation that was.
73 NLINK: Finally SAV is handled by CO I understand, DGS did a horrible operation there. I think NW is even upgrading a seasonal run in SAV and CHS to a DC9-30.
74 PSU.DTW.SCE: Yep, they put an Avro on one of the DTW-SAV flights in the fall. Currently, Feb-May they upgraded the DTW-SAV flight to a DC-9-30 (was a 50 in Feb/Mar
75 Pensacolaguy: Why have they been horrible operations? Wasn't 9E renamed Pinnacle Airlines? It WOULDN'T be fun flying from PNS to MSP on a SAAB340! Maybe you were c
76 Azjubilee: Nwaflyer - BGR is still serviced by NWA using Pinnacle. In the summer, your dreaded Mesaba will return with 2 avro flights. COmair does the ramp work
77 GEG2RAP: hmmmm, maybe soon courtesy of www.flytecommute.com Detailed Flight Information: Mesaba Aviation Flight 3289 to Greenville, MS (GLH-Greenville Airport)
79 TOLtommy: Funny you should say that. I'm a CO elite, and I fly NWA a lot more because of the long-haul ERJ's that CO flies out of CLE. NW seems to do a better
80 Hammer: GEG---that is a regular scheduled flight....not a ferry to be painted...sorry.
81 Azjubilee: 3-5 saabs will be painted starting in the June-July time frame. No more avros for the time being. AZJ
82 NASBWI: Didn't GE own a couple Saab 2000s as well? Or have they since been replaced?
83 EMBQA: General Motors had three Saab 2000's, those are the same aircraft now with Hendrick Racing.
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) for taxi time, especially at LAX. Only one turboprop flight I have ever been on has not had to cross the 50 yard line. And a Q400 is most definately faster than a SF340
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