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JetBlue, AirTran, Southwest And United Are Best  
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4856 times:

A new impartial survey (UNO Aviation Institute) indicate that JetBlue, AirTran, Southwest and United are the top four airlines. They're the only ones that improved their scores!
Here's the link from the A.net news page:
http://www.ascribe.org/cgi-bin/behol...?ascribeid=20050401.090023&time=06

Good for United for being the top legacy carrier.

[Edited 2005-04-04 17:05:24]

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDagolden1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4685 times:

Doh...you beat me to the punch, just saw the same thing on MSNBC. It's crazy that most of the top ranked are the low-cost carriers.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7361516/


User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4670 times:

Hmmm interesting.

I think more important than the LCCs being the top performers, this should be a wake up call to the legacies about the regional carriers. If they're performing so poorly (the regionals), WHY do they (the legacies) continue to farm out so much flying to them with little oversight and quality control standards? THAT is what is driving the pax away. Who wants to spend two hours on a CRJ that's probably late, and has left your bag behind?

Travis


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7521 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4643 times:

Speaking of FL, they just made the USDOT's list of major airlines this past week.

The below-web article covers the story. Note: it may require registration (although free) to read it.
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/11303816.htm



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3244 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4605 times:

I'm not surprised that the LCCs are high up in the list. However, I'm definitely surprised that AA is higher than CO, given than AA's service levels have been going down the drains recently.

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineUAORD2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 266 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4528 times:

Nice to see United at the top of the legacy carriers.

User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4516 times:

I need some info before I rag on and rip this apart and I haven't even seen it yet. I need to see the number of pax hauled in 2004 for the big six, WN, AW, Airtrain and JetBlue. Might as well throw in Alaska too.
Do you see what Im getting at?
Someone give me the numbers please and THANKS.......
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineRaginMav From United States of America, joined May 2004, 376 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4490 times:

http://aqr.aero/aqrreports/2005aqr.pdf

Isitsafenow, when you get done reading this thing word for word, and critically analyzing it, make sure you let us know what you think.

please and thanks


User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2091 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4470 times:

I noticed that this Airline Quality Rating study result is very different than the recent JD Power survey, although JetBlue topped both lists. The AQR scores are based on a secondary analysis of Department of Transportation data: On-Time performance; Denied Boardings; Mishandled Baggage; and Customer Complaints. It does not evaluate ticket prices, in-flight entertainment, seat comfort or food. The JD Power survey is a passenger opinion survey.

United and America West, which were ranked near the top of the of the AQR rankings, were near the bottom of the JD Power rankings. The AQR is not a true quantitative study because they have not established a level of significance. The difference between #4 United and #8 American is 0.21. Does that difference have any real significance? Does 0.21 show that United is demonstrably better than American? I suspect not. An airline could move up in the JD Power survey with nothing but a good advertising campaign.

Perhaps the real news is the steady decline of Delta. In the 2000 study, they were ranked first, 0.58 better than the industry average. They declined every year since then, now ranked 11th 0.16 below the industry average. Alaska has also shown considerable decline. Southwest has been 3rd or 4th every year since 2000. United had been 8th or 9th every year before moving to 4th in 2004.

Overall, the AQR and JD Power rankings are not very significant. My interpretation of the results is this: If JetBlue flies where you want to go, you should definitely give them a try. Everybody knows Southwest. After that, the airlines are all about the same. Some flights will be better than others but in aggregate, they are about the same.


User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4398 times:

on my AA flight yesterday I had one horrible crew member who was rude, one gate agent that was ruder and horrible and evil, one AWESOME FA...the bgest I've expirenced on any airline, and a great baggage staff...my gate checked bags were laready at the carousel when we got there (before it was even turned on!)

User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4213 times:

Well I am glad B6 is at the top and I am not just saying b/c I like them a lot (and see username) but I like their service which is why I like them so much. Also I am glad UA is at the top of the Legacy's list b/c I have always like them and when people would bash them I never got into it b/c if you really get down to it, they are pretty good.

 airplane  jetBlueAtJFK  airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineMidway2AirTran From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 864 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4179 times:

These surveys aren't reliable enough for me to take them seriously, but heck, it does bring some good PR to some of my fav. carriers!  Wink


"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4075 times:

I have printed this and will read it on a couple of NW DCyouknowwhats on Tuesday night for SDF.
The thing that really bothers me about this survey is that Southwest boarded 81 million people in 2004 and is still a flower in the eyes of the flying public. JetBLue, boarded 13 million and is "the best". To me that's like saying a Rolls Royce is better then a Dodge. Well, no crap, that's a fact. Now, how many Dodges were sold last year in the US and how many Rolls were sold in the US? Do you what I'm getting at? There is a huge amount of people that haven't even heard of JetBlue airlines let alone flown on them. The smaller you are, the less things said, positive or negative, but Southwest still has high marks with 400 planes and 81 million people. United didn't do so bad either. That shows me United is really trying to overcome this financial mess with good service(as well as can be expected).
Let me read the info from RaginMav. I have the boarding numbers from the DOT.
Thanks and give me a little time to digest and speak on the topic.
Perhaps I will see some of you at the DFW show this Saturday. I'll be wearing the Braniff DC 6 shirt, a rare one from Bryant.

safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineEIPremier From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4062 times:

The survey, IMHO, places far too much weight on baggage handling and (in particular) involuntary denied boardings, but too little weight on on-time performance. Only about 1 in 10,000 people experiences in involuntary bump and about 5 in 1000 file a mishandled baggage report. On the otherwhile 23% of flights are late. The vast majority of service failures passengers experience are due to flight delays.

Complete meaningless in my opinion. And what's with the ranking of Skywest??? They were ranked 3rd from last, yet they had top on-time performance, and ranked among the best carriers in IDB and customer complaints. Why rank so low? Because survey puts far too much weight on mishandled baggage. I would rank Skywest as one of the top carriers based on operational performance.


User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3980 times:

Some great news for United! That says a lot about the employees, given all they're going through right now, to be top of the legacy carriers.

FLY THE FRIENDLY SKIES OF UNITED!!!!!


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21634 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3912 times:

No surprise for me to see UA on top among legacy carriers. They have, in my opinion, the best product of all domestic airlines that I have flown (all the majors, I haven't been able to try any of the current big LCCs). Their regional product leaves a bit to be desired, but maybe that's because I'm used to getting such good service on their mainline.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineBNA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3828 times:

Delta near the bottom of the list? What's up with that? Actually, based on my last few flights with them, I'd have ranked them considerably lower. Comair's position on the list doesn't shock me either.

I am quite surprised that Frontier isn't even on the list. They're great! Are they just not big enough to make the list? Anyone have any ideas?


User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4279 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3792 times:

In order to make the list, an airline had to carry something like 5% of all passengers in the country. Frontier doesn't quite carry that many passengers, therefore they didn't make the list. Neither did YX.

User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3681 times:

Actually, to be rated, the airline had to carry at least 1% of the flying public.

Travis


User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4262 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3460 times:

The thing that really bothers me about this survey is that Southwest boarded 81 million people in 2004 and is still a flower in the eyes of the flying public. JetBLue, boarded 13 million and is "the best".

Isitsafenow, call me crazy but I don't get your point. The DOT looked at rates for all the airlines - all the airlines that made this list are large. Granted, there is a big difference between an AirTran and an American, but your comparison between a 'Dodge' and a 'Rolls-Royce' is just plain silly. The DOT didn't just say that American lost more bags than Frontier, therefore they are worse. They looked at the rate, as in bags lost per 100,000 passengers, which I think is the standard measurement. Just because an AirTran or JetBlue are smaller than American or Delta doesn't inherently mean they should be better at being on time or have a lower complaint rate.

Frankly I'm not surprised by the survey's results. I think that a lot of employees who work at 'legacy' carriers in this country have really bad attitudes. Perhaps it is because they remember the carefree days when they could rip off the average consumer and provide lousy service. Heck, I even see some of that attitude in here every now and again. Now that LCCs are firmly entrenched and the legacy carriers are struggling, morale is down and that is something you notice as a passenger. A lot of crewmembers at big carriers have a "my company doesn't care about me, why should i care about the customer" mentality.

Personally, I am glad that UA was in the top five. They needed this very badly and maybe it will help turn things around there. I am not trying to be specifically mean to Delta, Continental or American, but I think the numbers speak for themselves. Hopefully next time they'll have shown some real improvement too.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3328 times:

I agree that all airlines that made the list are "large" but 81 million boardings vs 13 million....theres no comparison here. My high school played good basketball but so do the Pistons. They are(were)both champs but now put them against each other. Jet Blue is a good company with great employees, so I have read and been told, but putting them in the same league as AA and UAL and DL, I cannot see it. This does NOT mean I AM RIGHT but its my opinion that perhaps this survey should be in two or even three divisions based on boardings.
I did note reading the report(a huge thanks again to RaginMav) that almost all carriers took a beating in almost all categories in December of 2004. This must of been a very bad weather month. I will have more later...thanks to all and RichieRich in NY for your combacks.
safe
PS.... to the NW people....I finally got a ride on N941N yesterday DTW-SDF. According to my personal log, I have now been on all NW DC9 model 30's,40's and 50's.
Now I wish I had the $$$$$$$$$ back!!!
lol



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineUAalltheway From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3305 times:

I read that survey as part of an article in the USA Today ~ Business travel on my plane yesterday. I don't disagree with the ratings a bit, except for airtran. Even though they have a pretty good route system, their seats are horrid. After my first trip on FL I decided I was never going to fly them again. I still have yet to fly WN, and am exited to see the outcome of the trip. I'll see if I can fight in a WN flight or two sometime this summer. As far as JetBlue- they still have yet to get their butts down here to JAX! I found this article that JetBlue was at least thinking of serving Jacksonville. Of that was six years ago, and where's jetblue now? Well it's sure as hell not in JAX! Now for United: Well of course UA is my favorite airline (hence the username). And It's great to see that people think UA has good/better/great service.  Smile

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3304 times:

Quoting SNATH (Reply 4):
However, I'm definitely surprised that AA is higher than CO, given than AA's service levels have been going down the drains recently.

There is more to quality ratings than no pillows and pay-for-meal sandwhich bags  Wink

CO might have the most polite crew, best tasting food, and choice wines for all passengers, but if they can't move bags from one airplane to another and are constantly late, they won't have a high rating. Obviously an example, but you see the point.


User currently offlineGalapagapop From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 910 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3295 times:

UA at #4? WN at 2? B6 1? WN should be at the top of that list due the size of the airline. And UA there must be some trick because UA is far from passenger friendly, I have had nothing but bad from my trips, and my family's trips on UA they have lost my bags numerous times, (in Sept I fly SFO-ORD-JFK, bag ends up in YYZ, took 2 1/2 weeks to get it back due to customs). UA has some of the most lazy, rude, and ignorant staff around. THis is pure BS. The other puzzle is AA and CO I personally like CO's product much more except from the seat pitch which I guess is going to be the same anyhow (thanks LRTC!). The FA's can and have been grumpy somtimes out of EWR but usually they are fine not to mention the check-in clerks and so forth being great, a big suprise I guess.

User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3236 times:

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 6):
need some info before I rag on and rip this apart and I haven't even seen it yet. I need to see the number of pax hauled in 2004 for the big six, WN, AW, Airtrain and JetBlue. Might as well throw in Alaska too.
Do you see what Im getting at?

Not really. Sure, some airlines carry fewer passengers, but since they're all carrying millions of them (and B6 and FL just became "Major Carriers"), it's safe to say that a statistical probability exists. After all, statistically you only need 30 samples from a population to start getting a normal curve.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 8):
The AQR is not a true quantitative study because they have not established a level of significance.

Slight correction: The AQR is a quantitative study, but it may or may not be statistically significant. The JD Power study is not a quantitative study, but it is qualitative, and it may or may not be statistically significant.

Quoting EIPremier (Reply 13):
Complete meaningless in my opinion. And what's with the ranking of Skywest??? They were ranked 3rd from last, yet they had top on-time performance, and ranked among the best carriers in IDB and customer complaints. Why rank so low? Because survey puts far too much weight on mishandled baggage. I would rank Skywest as one of the top carriers based on operational performance.

1) Operational performance includes baggage handling.
2) Now airline is going to miss 23% of baggage for very long before the DOT shuts it down. Even missing 1% of baggage would raise a lot of eyebrows.
3) There is no system of weighting the different categories that is going to satisfy everyone. OTP is important, but most airlines are going to be late between 10% and 30% of the time, so you're really looking at a 20% window, not a 100% window.

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 20):
My high school played good basketball but so do the Pistons

But your high school doesn't play the Pistons. The Jazz do. In this case, the Jazz are beating the Pistons. Artie's Air Tours isn't competing against the American, just as your high school isn't competing against the Bulls.

Quoting UAalltheway (Reply 21):
Even though they have a pretty good route system, their seats are horrid. After my first trip on FL I decided I was never going to fly them again.

When did you fly them and what type of aircraft? The seats on the DC-9s were terrible, I'll grant you, but the 717s were quite comfortable, even with the reduced pitch compared to other airlines (I'm 5'11" 190lbs, if that helps).

Quoting Galapagapop (Reply 23):
WN should be at the top of that list due the size of the airline.

It's amazing the lack of understanding of statistics in this thread.

By using the rate of incidence, rather than the total number of incidents, they can compare an airline that carries 81 million passengers to one the carries 13 million. In the same way, I can take a sample 100 people out of a group of 1 million (say, the Memphis GMSA) and compare a sample of 1,000 out of a group of 10 million (say, the Chicago GMSA). It's not exactly the same process, but you get the idea of how it works.



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
25 Isitsafenow : ELWOOD...about the "30 samples.."you mentioned,.....that's EXACTLY my point. PERFECT!!! thx safe
26 Galapagapop : Well if this study is based greatly off lost luggage, WN should still be at the top, how many airlines have 2+ stop traffic for a majority of their ro
27 RaginMav : Thank you SO much for pointing these things out. They were really starting to bother me. Concerning sample size, the AQR doesn't judge samples, it ju
28 EIPremier : No airline is going to miss 23% of baggage for very long before the DOT shuts it down. Even missing 1% of baggage would raise a lot of eyebrows. Repor
29 Post contains images Kaputt : Hmm, not surprised that Jetblue is number 1. And also very good for United as they are a legacy. And maybe, as DH starts to get their LF's up I wouldn
30 AirWillie6475 : I am curious as to what is liked very much about LCCs? There is nothing to grade them on as they don't offer anything, they are just greyhound of the
31 DfwRevolution : Have you read the forum? This is a study of complaints per passenger (of which LCC have the least), of lost bags per passenger (of which LCC have the
32 Bicoastal : Hmmm....seems like Willie hasn't been flying in Europe recently. They're now on the cost cutting track, too. For that matter he hasn't been flying muc
33 Post contains images Falcon84 : Since we do move bags as well as anyone ,and we are consistently near the top on on-time ratings, your example isn't a good one, my friend.
34 Post contains images DfwRevolution : I made a crystal clear disclamir that it was an example, i.e. a hypothetical, a "suppose so," a thought experiment, etc. I have nothing but the upmos
35 Post contains images Falcon84 : OK, gotcha, Dfw. It's cool. Like a loyal employee, I just have to keep the record straight.
36 AirWillie6475 : Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 30): Every time I read these posts about US airline preferences I always think of the European carriers. Even regional ca
37 PHLBOS : In the latest issue of Airliners magazine, there's a story regarding the history of RyanAir. In one paragraph, it stated that it wanted to become the
38 Bicoastal : Tyrolean? Uh, Willie, travel much?? I believe Tyrolean is now known as Austrian Arrows, the regional airline owned by the Austrian Airlines Group. AND
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