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The Future Of AA Trancons  
User currently offlineContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 13
Posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5136 times:

While United Airlines has completed the introduction of "p.s" service on its JFK-LAX/SFO routes, and with Delta replacing mainline with Song on the same markets, and to Seattle, and increased competition from jetBlue with its new service to Burbank from JFK, what is American Airlines going to do with its transcontinental flights? They are operated for the most part, from JFK with 767-200ER's to LAX/SFO. Will AA resort to 757's as well? If so, in 3 class cabins or 2 class?

ContinentalEWR

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4254 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5126 times:

Well, I was on AA flight 4 LAX-JFK last week. The plane was in great shape and the 3 cabins make even coach seem quite intimate without seeming cramped (I was in coach).

User currently offlineMIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1340 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5029 times:

JFK is preety much the only airport serving LAX and SFO with 762's on AA.
MIA has 763 & 752 service to both LAX & SFO. Although in Feb my SFO-MIA 763 flight was replaced by 762 for that day, nice treat!



Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5013 times:

i've flown AA MIA-LAX before last november. The aircraft was a 763 in excellent shape. From what I've heard, the AA 762s are in terrific shape as compared to the recently retired UAL 762s (Then again they are also a few years younger.) AA still has a few years with the 762s on transcons and after that, the 777 is a possibility.


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineMIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1340 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5001 times:

HMMMM or possibly 787's for transcon? makes sense!


Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlineDeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4973 times:

I've wondered this same question too. Especially since the 762s are getting up there in age. ANd for the most part that is the only route they are good for in the AA system, JFK-LAX/SFO. So from an efficieny case its not the best. I don't know why they don't just get rid of the 767-200s and go w/ the 763 and cut frequency.

User currently offlineNWcoflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 687 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4955 times:

AA is not in shape to buy 787s, however, I think it would be a good 3 class plane for transcon runs.


The New American is arriving.
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4949 times:

I'm betting on a reduction in capacity, whether it be less frequency or lower gauge. Jetblue in Burbank is going to be big drain on market share. How many flights will they have 5? Many of these NYC flyers come to/from the Valley and would not go to LGB for Jetblue, but BUR is another matter. Then you have Song offering a better coach product and actually more coach seats than AA. A huge boost in Delta's capacity here.

User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4254 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4917 times:

Quoting Deltaflyertoo (Reply 5):
ANd for the most part that is the only route they are good for in the AA system, JFK-LAX/SFO.

Well, I am still hoping against all hope that AA will someday upgrade EWR-LAX to "Premium Transcon" (or whatever they call it) service with the 762!


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16693 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4901 times:

Interesting this topic comes up, today's NY Times has an interesting article about Trans-Cons and the LCC effect.

"From the NY Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/03/business/yourmoney/03airline.html

Budget Airlines Set Off on a Cross-Country

Joy Ride
By MICHELINE MAYNARD

Published: April 3, 2005


FIVE years ago, flying across the United States was much the same as it had been throughout much of the jet age. Passengers booked a ticket on one of the big airlines, like United or American, and paid an average of $600 round-trip in coach class unless they snagged a discount.

As recently as 2000, major airlines had a lock on 85 percent of transcontinental business, defined as trips of 2,000 miles or more within the 48 contiguous states. Most offered at least two classes of service, sometimes three, with hot meals and all the other amenities customers came to expect on long flights.

"It was really a market that the big legacy carriers had all to themselves," said Darin Lee, a senior economist with LECG, an economics forecasting and consulting firm in Cambridge, Mass.

Not any more. Low-fare airlines have been gobbling market share throughout the industry, and they are now focusing on the transcontinental market with a vengeance. Cross-country flights account for almost half the business that the low-fare companies have added during this decade, LECG estimates."



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16693 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4884 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 7):
m betting on a reduction in capacity, whether it be less frequency or lower gauge.

I would say that's a safe bet, NYC-California is turning into another NYC-Florida market. The airlines that will fly the routes will make little to no money, and they will only offer the service because so many people want to travel those routes.

Look for more 757s and 737NG (700s, 800s etc), with SONG in LAX and SFO and B6 in Burbank I would say the glory days of premium trans-con flying is over.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4864 times:

Look for more 757s and 737NG (700s, 800s etc), with SONG in LAX and SFO and B6 in Burbank I would say the glory days of premium trans-con flying is over.

Yet, it is still one of the only markets left in the US where there is a high demand for premium seats. The problem is that there isn't room for United and AA to make the hefty profits they are used to making on these routes. Hence, the competition to offer the best product.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16693 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4843 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
Hence, the competition to offer the best product.

Hard for AA and UAL to compete with each other with their premium offerings when it's B6 winning all the awards for their basic economy offerings.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4836 times:

Quoting NWcoflyer (Reply 6):
AA is not in shape to buy 787s, however, I think it would be a good 3 class plane for transcon runs.

AA has the cash to buy new planes, but they also have priorities to deal with before new planes. I would not at all be surprised to see them order the 787 within 18 months. Though they wasted on transcons.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 8):

Well, I am still hoping against all hope that AA will someday upgrade EWR-LAX to "Premium Transcon" (or whatever they call it) service with the 762!

I wouldn't count on that ever happening.



a.
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6729 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4840 times:

Well perhaps they will add some East-West coast flights from somewhere other than Florida and New York.. like a RDU-Los Angeles area flight.. I'm still flabbergasted why there isn't one with such a good O&D value (444 daily pax).

And I would not look to AA for that route anymore...



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4785 times:

Quoting Deltaflyertoo (Reply 5):
I don't know why they don't just get rid of the 767-200s and go w/ the 763 and cut frequency.

Well, one, business travelers and vacationers alike prefer frequency. As it is, they have to compete with more than 15 (after BUR) area flights per day from B6, many from DL, UA and even a flight from HP. AA needs to keep frequency on the route. The 762 allows this. AA owns what is left of the premium market on the LAX-JFK run, which is why UA had to introduce p.s., to try to hang on to some sort of market share. A 787 would be perfect for this run, and at some point, AA is likely to have them



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5066 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4750 times:

MAH4546:

A friend of mine is a 757/767 F/O. He keeps hearing rumors that AA will put in an order for 787s at some point. If it happened tomorrow, it would not surprise him, altough he thinks it's still a few months off, and it will be for deliveries in 2010 or later.

The talk among pilots is whether AA buys any of the -3 model. The 767-200s have a few years left in them. And he doesn't expect the situation at ORD to get better for a number of years. Residents around ORD will try to tie up expansion in court, and it will take 4 east-west runways to start adding capacity.

So, there is a belief that AA might use -3s out of ORD to the West Coast, just so that it can use some of those slots for other routes. Then, once ORD loses its restrictions, they could be used on transcons.

But again, it's a lot of speculation.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4744 times:

I definitley think AA will go for both 788s and 783s. The 783s are perfect for short/medium haul international flights from Miami and NYC. Putting them on ORD-West Coast is a complete waste of resources.


a.
User currently offlineAa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4724 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
AA has the cash to buy new planes, but they also have priorities to deal with before new planes. I would not at all be surprised to see them order the 787 within 18 months. Though they wasted on transcons.

They do???? Where???? With oil prices spiking, yeilds declining and a forcast loss this year of around $2B? Dont get me wrong, I dont want to see it. I really dont think AA will avoid CH11 this time around. They are already hinting of more pay cuts which the TWU, APA, APFA will NEVER give. It will take a judges order in CH11 to happen.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7929 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4533 times:

My guess is that AA may be looking at upgrading their later-production 767-200's into something designed for better premium class service than what UA is offering on their p.s. configured 757-200's. After all, there's still quite a lot of premium traffic between LAX and JFK, and many premium passengers would like to fly in a roomier widebody jet!  bigthumbsup 

User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4482 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
I would say that's a safe bet, NYC-California is turning into another NYC-Florida market.

I think you're reading the market wrong. A large percentage of the premium market between NYC-LAX/SFO is driven by corporate/entertainment sectors, with the passengers themselves having few options within corporate contracts with the airlines. Corporate travel agents have lists of who flies in what class based upon their ranking within the company. The dynamics of the market are completely different from that of NYC-Florida.

AA has always dominated the LAX-JFK sector, even running up to 7 or 8 747's per day each way in the early 80's. They absorbed the #3 performer on the route, TWA, in 2001. I wouldn't think they'll sit idle for too long if UA's p.s. service begins to draw premium passengers away from their frequent service, and upgrade it appropriately.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4474 times:

Quoting Aa777flyer (Reply 18):

They do???? Where???? With oil prices spiking, yeilds declining and a forcast loss this year of around $2B? Dont get me wrong, I dont want to see it. I really dont think AA will avoid CH11 this time around. They are already hinting of more pay cuts which the TWU, APA, APFA will NEVER give. It will take a judges order in CH11 to happen.

It is called cash reserves, and AA has more cash in hand than any other cartel carrier.



a.
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4399 times:

Hard for AA and UAL to compete with each other with their premium offerings when it's B6 winning all the awards for their basic economy offerings.

Please, STT. You know as well as I do that it doesn't matter how many awards B6 wins for their service. The real money is in the premium product--AA and UA compete there.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4369 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 22):
You know as well as I do that it doesn't matter how many awards B6 wins for their service. The real money is in the premium product--AA and UA compete there.

Real money huh? B6 is making real money while AA and UA are losing real money. Still, I agree on the premium market point, and AA currently has that by the short and curlies



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineUnitedStarGold From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4290 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
Real money huh? B6 is making real money while AA and UA are losing real money.

Are you referring to the JFK-LAX/SFO routes in particular, or the companies in general?



"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - Gen. R.E. Lee
25 RJpieces : Real money huh? B6 is making real money while AA and UA are losing real money. American and United and all the majors have their fair share of problem
26 Padcrasher : Once again people are overstating the premium revenue in these markets. By in large they are a shadow of what they once were. The revenue that has fal
27 Qqflyboy : AA can do well keeping the 762s in these markets. They can cater to the cost-conscious business and leisure travelers in coach while still offering an
28 N1120A : A little of both. UA had to downgauge and go with p.s. because of pressure on their lower end by B6, who have the costs and structure to make money i
29 LACA773 : I have taken UA p.s. with my Mother both in Y and J and it was excellent, well beyond our expectations and the only other comparable carrier on this t
30 STT757 : A-listers fly Teterboro-Van Nuys, Burbank or Santa Monica, B-listers fly commercial. MRTC was supposedly equally as successful, people were always br
31 American762 : I will be taking the JFK-LAX/LAX-LAS/LAS-DFW/DFW-JFK route in late April aboard my beloved AA 767-200. I've flown on the aircraft so many times that i
32 SESGDL : So what, with losses in excess of $500 million a year, those reserves are dwindling. Especially considering that a 20+ aircraft order would cost AA o
33 Qqflyboy : American calls their premium transcon service AFS, or American Flagship Service.
34 American 767 : American762,welcome to airliners.net I'm like you, I fly American Airlines all the time and for the same reason as you, my username is American 767. B
35 Post contains images AeroWesty : If you're going to quote me, at least do it right.
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