Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
New Rumored AA Routes To Germany  
User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 693 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 7 months 17 hours ago) and read 8292 times:

I've been hearing this a lot in the company rumor mill. I don't have anything to substantiate it yet, but you never know. I heard about AA reinstating JFK-BRU from other employees long before any mention had been made of it anywhere else.

Supposedly American is considering starting New York JFK-Dusseldorf and reinstating JFK-Frankfurt using 757s with an all-coach service, much like the BOS-MAN and new BOS-SNN flights.

AA has had a 10% gain in passenger traffic in the New York O & D market and they may be trying to capitalize on it.

Star Alliance killed us the last time we entered (and subsequently exited) the JFK-FRA market, so this would be the third time AA would be trying to gain a foothold on the route. CO used to fly EWR-DUS with a 2-class service on a 757 up until a few years ago.

It would be great if we started these new routes, but I'm less than thrilled about working a 757 on such a long route. Time will tell if it all pans out!

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 17 hours ago) and read 8231 times:

I would like to see DFW-MUC on a widebody rather than all these B757 services to other destinations.  Wink


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineAirStatDFW From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 17 hours ago) and read 8199 times:

DFW-MUC would be nice would go in the new Terminal very nicely.  bouncy 

User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25841 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 16 hours ago) and read 8184 times:

Like you mentioned USA-Germany is an extremely tough market to crack as a result of the Star Alliance and its marketing power.

US airlines has slowy drawn down service to Germany in the last decade, (AA reductions, DL FRA hub reduction, TWA closure) and those new routes added generally been with smaller equipment and operated on more low key basis, and often avoiding the FRA and MUC Star hubs.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7643 posts, RR: 35
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 16 hours ago) and read 8164 times:

The all coach class AA757 JFK-DUS would be a nice treat, competing against LTU and LH (Privateair) A319 biz jet EWR-DUS.

cheers,
Patrick



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 16 hours ago) and read 8152 times:

Quoting AirStatDFW (Reply 2):
DFW-MUC would be nice would go in the new Terminal very nicely.

T2 at MUC? The Star Alliance Mafia around its boss Mayrhuber would grant no access to rival "organisations"...  Wink


Regards
Udo


User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 16 hours ago) and read 8142 times:

Where do you get the 10% figure from for gain in NYC O&D?

User currently offlineNudelhirsch From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 1438 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 16 hours ago) and read 8146 times:

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 4):
The all coach class AA757 JFK-DUS would be a nice treat, competing against LTU and LH (Privateair) A319 biz jet EWR-DUS.

An all coach 757 competing against a biz jet? come on... AA is not that good, especially after dropping MRTC...

I can rather see more service into FRA or MUC rather than JFK-DUS.

Much more I am thrilled to see how AA will react to the change in the Swiss market as LX is moving into Star... UA has some presence there, but so far ZRH has been a "strong" OW hub... in the means of a strong OW presence...

DL has been operating ATL-STR for years now, with a 763, STR could work for other airlines as well...

As to new Berlin service... we will see...



Putana da Seatbeltz!
User currently offlineBOSSAN From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 16 hours ago) and read 8127 times:

Quoting Udo (Reply 5):
T2 at MUC?

I think AirStatDFW meant DFW's new international Terminal D.


User currently offlineJettravel From Austria, joined Sep 2004, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 16 hours ago) and read 8115 times:

Quoting Udo
The Star Alliance Mafia around its boss Mayrhuber would grant no access to rival "organizations".

Don´t forget: Without this "Mafia" MUC airport would be a province airport as before.


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 16 hours ago) and read 8076 times:

Hmm... an "all coach B757" from FRA to JFK, competing with LH's several daily flights, as well as a daily SQ B747-400 and a DL B767-300?

Not sure about how you guys see the chances - but I can see AA quitting FRA-JFK for the third time not far down the line...

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7643 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 8044 times:

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 7):
An all coach 757 competing against a biz jet? come on... AA is not that good, especially after dropping MRTC

What I meant was, it would be neat to see, an all econo class of OneWorld flying along an all business class of Star. I wasn't trying to compare services or anything, just trying to point out the opposites. Unfortunately, I couldn't see it happening because there is more demand for business traffic from the Rhein-Ruhr area to the New York area then there is for tourists, at least thats what the DUS airport management has said.

cheers,
Patrick



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 8031 times:

Quoting Jettravel (Reply 9):
Don´t forget: Without this "Mafia" MUC airport would be a province airport as before.

You mean a province airport like VIE?  Wink


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 8014 times:

Depends on premises! Last time I flew AA, which was in late February...LHR-JFK, I liked it a lot..the seat pitch was pretty good, so there could be an alternative! Now if they go back to 31'' AND use a 757...I'm afraif Leskova is dead right...they'll give up VERY SOON!


I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlinePRGLY From Czech Republic, joined Dec 2004, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 8003 times:

How far is CO with their plans to start operating PRG? Or any other carrier will join the party?


just fly - it is nice
User currently offlineVORFMD From Austria, joined Feb 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 7933 times:

@Udo,

LH did and will do their best to keep VIE a "provincial" Airport.

Cheers
Martin


User currently offlineJasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 39
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 7912 times:

Shouldn't AA try to get to other European markets too? They fly to barely a handful of destinations as it is. Strange, albeit unsurprising, for the world's biggest airline.

User currently offlineBilly From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2000, 895 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 7890 times:

It is true that AA has a number of German airports on their list of 757 all-econ services. However, the process is entirely academic at the moment and the German route analysis is purely based upon the theoretical range of their equipment. That includes FRA-JFK but also includes JFK-STR, LYS. There are also optins to flip a 76 to a 75 including BOS-CDG and BRU-JFK. It should also be mentioned that there are some Brazilian options in there too so it is not entirely safe to assume that the capacity will come to Europe.

User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24951 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 7854 times:

Anything more on the rumoured JFK-NCL Billy, or is it just that - a rumour?


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineBilly From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2000, 895 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 7787 times:

Until it happens, it is a rumour. However, that's not to say people are not working towards making this happening.

User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 7791 times:

I find the idea of an AA all coach service between JFK and FRA somewhat odd I have to say. OK I can understand that Star Alliance would compete heavily on this route, but I still think there must be some sort of business market for AA to capture to make the route worthwhile.

OK they may not pick up much of the Germany orginating traffic, but surely there are enough business flyers based in NYC who have accounts with AA to put enough bums on seats in the front cabin to bring in some worthwhile money on the route - surely they'd prefer to fly direct than via LHR, ORD or wherever just to stick with oneworld carriers.

I just can't see why they'd want to operate an all economy service between two of the largest financial centres in the world, when with a bit of effort they could get a decent higher yield passenger load on board.

Ok, maybe I'm missing something obvious here, but I'm surprised why they don't fly it at all - despite Star competition.

[Edited 2005-04-05 11:12:00]


Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineBA380 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 7775 times:

The AA all coach service to DUS will be up against stiff competition: the Privatair all business service and LTU's service. This would seem odd. If I were them, I would look to use a 767 (or a 757 with some premium seats).


cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 7771 times:

Quoting BA380 (Reply 21):
the Privatair all business service and LTU's service. This would seem odd. If I were them, I would look to use a 767 (or a 757 with some premium seats).

I guess they would reckon that LTUs flights would have few US originating passengers on it.

Again though, I have to agree that surely it would make sense to put some business seats on board - it wouldn't need that many filled on a 757 and there must be enough AA frequent flyers in the NYC area with business in the Ruhr to justify doing so (again avoiding the need to change in LHR or train from BRU or wherever).



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 7738 times:

Quoting VORFMD (Reply 15):
LH did and will do their best to keep VIE a "provincial" Airport.

We shouldn't forget the AUA group's Star Alliance entry secured the hub status for VIE. Without LH's and Star's backing VIE would be in danger becoming a truly provincial airport.


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 693 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 9 hours ago) and read 7542 times:

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 6):
Where do you get the 10% figure from for gain in NYC O&D?

From meetings and forums held by local management for AA flight and ground personnel at JFK. Load factors have increased substantially from JFK.


25 MCIrunway : ATL-STR does pretty well for DL, right? I would think Stuttgart is a decent option due to a nice mix of business and tourist traffic. But of course th
26 Jettravel : "Quoting Udo: Without LH's and Star's backing VIE would be in danger becoming a truly provincial airport." Oh now you are a supporter of Star Alliance
27 RJpieces : I'd much rather see AA expand elsewhere in Europe, rather than entering JFK-FRA.
28 Ssides : You're right. However, the brilliant US and EU antitrust regulators could care less. They'd rather destroy Oneworld than pay any attention to this li
29 FraT : Delta used to fly STR-JFK as well. They dropped the route so I don't think AA would make money there. The only U.S. carrier who could make a profit o
30 N1120A : Well, not exactly all coach. Sold as all coach, but with domestic F seats up front that go to full Y and elite pax Both of those routes are premium h
31 Myt332 : Am I the only one that see's what's wrong there.....Brussels is in Belgium not Germany.
32 GeneralA : That's correct. According to a local newspaper, STR-ATL had a load factor of 82% last year. Fifteen percent of all passangers have traveled in C, con
33 N1120A : This thread, contrary to the title, seems to be more about AA offering new service to Germany and how it compares to other european service
34 GodBless : Ít is funny how airlines one by one say goodbye to certain destinations, as for example US flights to Berlin or the longhauls to DUS (AA, AC, CO, UA,
35 Byrdluvs747 : What you guys don't realize is that AA will fly a 757 config'ed with F, but sold as all Y. They do this on BOS-MAN. That flight is a great value for
36 NYCAAer : I was using my reference to the reinstatement of JFK-BRU coming up in the company rumor mill long before it happened and before it appeared on the we
37 TUGMASTER : FACT: A month or so ago, AA actively participated in a job fair in Berlin,including sending managers and HR staff from LHR & LON. FACT: When I inquire
38 NYCAAer : In the mid-90s AA closed its call centers in Britain, France and Germany and consolidated the operation in Dublin for cost-savings. Recruitment is alw
39 Leskova : After, occasionally, having to speak to them, I can only say the following: they are very, very short on German speaking staff. Fortunately, we've go
40 Udo : Supporter? Just because I said what's fact at VIE? And yes, I called them "mafia" because LH are famous for blocking other airlines at MUC. Never den
41 Lightsaber : Smart! Extending the previously domestic 757 fleet to trans-Atlantic market is a smart move for AA. They'll get better utilization and higher yields.
42 747firstclass : I am wondering if perhaps, by some way, the CO or DL flights from EWR and JFK-TXL are successful, if AA would try to start ORD-TXL again. The AA prese
43 Ckfred : In the late 80s and early 90s, AA codeshared with LH out of ORD. LH flew a 747 to FRA and a DC-10 to DUS, while AA flew either a 767-300 or MD-11 to F
44 VORFMD : @Udo, you don´t know many Fact´s about VIE, do you ? But this is off Topic, only a sidenote. VIE´s growth is mainly because of Airlines like Air Be
45 Andie007 : Don't think that AA will return back to DUS Intl. Privatair (LH) is grabbing up all premium pax that holds the high yield on the route. LTU has the ma
46 Byrdluvs747 : Are you referring to JFK-FRA? Otherwise, AA already flies DFW/ORD-FRA
47 DLHeavy : Range is possible, but likelihood not probable, especially on JFK-LYS, which Delta tried for about six months in 2000-2001 using 763. I once flew the
48 MAH4546 : The flight last longer than that. June 2000 through September 2001 (it was not dropped as a result of 9.11). The 763 is perhaps to big for that route
49 LMP737 : I would love for AA to start a Chicago-Salzburg(yes I know it's in Austria). It's right across the border from my favorite part of Germany.
50 NomoreRJs : How about ORD-VIE, KBP, PRG, BUD, SVO, or OTP on AA?
51 Newkai : I used to fly DUS-JFK on AA a lot in the late 80s as a kid.
52 Newkai : In regards to VIE, OS themselves have always been working to keep VIE provincial... at least to other airlines. I mean how many American airlines have
53 FlyMIA : I would imgaine the first new AA route to Germany would be MIA-FRA. Seems to make more sense than JFK-DUS and JFK-FRA using 757? MIA-FRA with a 763 I
54 Ckfred : Byrdluvs747: I meant avoid FRA for new routes out of the U.S. I know that AA flies to FRA from ORD and DFW.
55 Post contains images UAMAYBACH1239 : Its one of the coolest things to fly into FRA or MUC and know that you are apart of LH's presence there because of STAR. LH is doing the correct thing
56 MIASkies : MIA-FRA could be good but I like MIA-BRU better. We have not had BRU service at MIA I believe in a long while. LH covers FRA and MUC from MIA already
57 MAH4546 : AA is expected to announce a fifth European route from Miami in the next two to four months. Brussels and Frankfurt seem to be the favourites. Rome a
58 NYCAAer : MIA-FRA was operated in the mid-90s and AA discontinued it after about a year or so. I would place my bets on MIA-BRU.
59 MAH4546 : I belive it operated more than a year. 1994 to 1997, IIRC. The problem with the route was that they were not able to get the high-yielding passengers
60 GodBless : Of course, after all CO is an american airline, as I was not talking about American Airlines alone... Max
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AA Routes To CUN posted Tue Dec 28 2004 00:31:13 by Thrust
New Airlines And Routes To Honolulu? posted Tue Sep 21 2004 21:48:00 by Anthsaun
AA Routes To HNL posted Wed Mar 10 2004 05:25:37 by Thrust
New Long Haul Routes To DUB posted Mon Feb 23 2004 22:39:03 by RyanairA320
AA Routes To Be Booted posted Thu Nov 13 2003 06:59:18 by Thrust
New Aircrafts Or Routes To Brussels: Which One? posted Mon Feb 11 2002 14:09:56 by Sabena 690
New Routes To, From And In Germany posted Thu Mar 9 2006 15:38:52 by Flying-Tiger
Kenya Airways To Fly New Routes To W Africa posted Fri Sep 22 2006 05:01:39 by Carnoc
AA Wants To Start Early Talks On A New Pilot Deal posted Mon Jul 24 2006 22:30:39 by KarlB737
Where To Find New And Upcoming Routes posted Mon Jun 19 2006 17:21:32 by SFOerik