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JetBlue In Chicago....  
User currently offlineChicago757 From United States of America, joined May 2003, 381 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5539 times:

Does jetBlue have any intentions of coming into Chicago? Perhaps MDW would be a good decision for them.


Go White Sox!!!!
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1383 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5518 times:

jetBlue has stated they pretty much only want to serve Chicago via O'Hare. And since the slots are not available for them at this time, they are not planning service to Chicago anytime soon that I know of.

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5480 times:

Now that Ted has arrived is there a lot of extra gate availability at MDW?

User currently offlineAirportPlan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 469 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5378 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 2):
Now that Ted has arrived is there a lot of extra gate availability at MDW?

Yes and no. Any new carrier at MDW would have to share gates with other carriers. Gate availability times may be less than desirable for the new entrant. Take a look at Ted's MDW arrival and departure time. They are not during peak morning and evening hours. Leisure carriers like Ted can deals with this. Business oriented carriers such as Jet Blue cannot.


User currently offlineLGAtoIND From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 490 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5379 times:

I would imagine that B6 wants to stay away from MDW due to all the other LCC competition. Is this correct?

User currently offlineATAV2pls10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5347 times:

At present no carrier does MDW to JFK. Could be a market there. The question is gate space as there are no unused gates and they would half to rent some from someone else. Time will tell. Interesting times.

V2


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5300 times:

If B6 really wanted to go "out of the box," perhaps it could try Chicago Gary (GYY) as a low risk/low cost entry entry point into the Chicago market?

User currently offlineNjdevilsin03 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 731 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5269 times:

I was bout to say Gary as well. THat would be interesting to see.


717, 727, 731, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 753, 762, 763, 777, DC9, MD80, DC10, L1011, ERJ, CRJ, ATR, DH8, A300,
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 984 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5248 times:

Quoting AirportPlan (Reply 3):
Business oriented carriers such as Jet Blue cannot.

"Business oriented?"  Wink

They are no such thing. "Business people" might like B6, but they do not cater to one niche or the other, as paying passengers are paying passengers. B6 serves vacation markets such as SJU, Nasua, Florida, etc...


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26599 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5142 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
"Business oriented?"

They are no such thing. "Business people" might like B6, but they do not cater to one niche or the other, as paying passengers are paying passengers. B6 serves vacation markets such as SJU, Nassau, Florida, etc...

B6 does serve vacation markets but they also have taken a big chunk of the walk-up business market, particularly transcon, because of their superior walk-up fares and service. This was something they stated they wanted to do at start up, take Y class business travelers with their walkup fares that were about 1/4th what legacy carriers were charging back in 1999/2000



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAirportPlan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 469 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5130 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
Business oriented?"

They are no such thing. "Business people" might like B6, but they do not cater to one niche or the other, as paying passengers are paying passengers. B6 serves vacation markets such as SJU, Nasua, Florida, etc...

Yes at JFK they do carry a lot of leisure traffic. But they also carry a lot of business traffic from JFK to LGB, OAK and other business markets.
But to make money in Chicago, they need to be able to compete with AA, UA and TZ for NY bound business passengers. They really cannot do this unless they can control their schedule. They cannot do this unless they have their own gate(s) at ORD or MDW. AA, UA and TZ all offer peak hour departure times from Chicago to NYC which are attractive to business travelers. Also, JetBlue cannot compete with SWA/TZ at MDW when it comes to service to leisure markets. SWA/TZ offer too much frequency to these markets and are adding more each month.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33033 posts, RR: 71
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5104 times:

Quoting AirportPlan (Reply 10):
Also, JetBlue cannot compete with SWA/TZ at MDW when it comes to service to leisure markets. SWA/TZ offer too much frequency to these markets and are adding more each month.

They could to South Florida, where Southwest has a weak market position. If jetBlue goes to Chicago, I wouldn't be surprised to see the first destination be FLL.



a.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5104 times:

Gary would be tuff, even though it might not be as far as people think, the PERCEIVED notion of having to fly to Gary is a turn off for many people, especially given the fact its not even in the state of Illinois. Its a little different than EWR, where its perceived to be very close.

ATA used to have flights from MDW to JFK, I've flown that route. If I can recall, AA had MDW to JFK also.

Given there aren't any carriers from MDW to JFK, if B6 can get some decent slots, I think they would do ok....though I think they are better off serving ORD-JFK.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineKim777Fan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 510 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5073 times:

Howzabout Rockford?!?!?!  Yeah sure

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33033 posts, RR: 71
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5068 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
If I can recall, AA had MDW to JFK also.

They flew LGA-MDW until last December.



a.
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4405 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5068 times:

I hope they do come to Chicago (and Houston for that matter), so that the Battle of Atlanta can be repeated again with similar success.  Smile


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineKim777fan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 510 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5045 times:

Hmmmm... Sounds like Avek00 isn't a JetBlue fan.

User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4405 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5036 times:

Quoting Kim777fan (Reply 16):
Hmmmm... Sounds like Avek00 isn't a JetBlue fan.

Hey, I just want B6 to try yet again to move into a major legacy hub. They've only had success in doing so at IAD.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13250 posts, RR: 100
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4977 times:
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Quoting Avek00 (Reply 17):
Hey, I just want B6 to try yet again to move into a major legacy hub. They've only had success in doing so at IAD.

The "battle of Atlanta" was lost due to:
1. B6 still establishing presence in LGB (with none in ATL) They had no FF to build off of.
2. The dual "allergic" reaction of FL and DL.

Will I would expect UA and AA to react to B6 in Chicago, B6 now has a large healthy customer base and could rapidly expand to JFK, BOS, FLL, and soon BUR. I'm not sure if any of the bay area markets would have enough yield... They'll probably do IAD too, but I wouldn't hold my breath on yield.

IAD worked due to adroit selection of initial routes.

As others noted, B6 has been vocal about ORD operations. Until they can get gates/slots Chicago will not be their next expansion. However, both UA and AA filed a complaint against the FAA that "new entrants" would be given preference at ORD... Hmmm...

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16883 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4971 times:

The issue with Jetblue flying to Chicago is not Ohare or Midway but rather JFK, I think they are holding off and monitoring the situation with regards to US Airways and other carriers with slots and gates at LGA which may become available within the next year or two. B6 would rather fly LGA-Chicago than JFK-Chicago, the lack of service on the JFK-Chicago route speaks volumes about it's potential.


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User currently offlineLowecur From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 585 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4832 times:

Jetblue has designs on Chicago, but they will wait to see how consolidation plays out in the next few years. They would only go to Gary or Rockford if UAL and AMR continue to dominate ORD. That is highly unlikely, as it is my opinion that once UAL jettisons their pensions they will consolidate with someone or go Chapt 7. Jetblue will then look to pick up substantial gate space at ORD as any consolidation will face anti-trust review and require UAL to give up gates at ORD. UAL international routes would be the main driver behind a consolidation effort from any other carrier. If it's AMR, look for Arpey to promise AMR pilots full recall for further concessions as they staple existing UAL pilots to the bottom of the list (similar to TWA).

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4739 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
Gary would be tuff, even though it might not be as far as people think, the PERCEIVED notion of having to fly to Gary is a turn off for many people, especially given the fact its not even in the state of Illinois.



Quoting Lowecur (Reply 20):
Jetblue has designs on Chicago, but they will wait to see how consolidation plays out in the next few years. They would only go to Gary or Rockford if UAL and AMR continue to dominate ORD.

The City of Chicago is actively promoting GYY in cooperation/partnership with the Chicago/Gary International Airport Authority as an alternative airport. Lake and Porter counties in Northwest Indiana have a combined population of nearly 650,000, part of the 9.1 million people in Metropolitan Chicago. GYY is only 35 minutes from downtown Chicago...it's kind of the LGB of the Chicago area. The FAA recently approved a very ambitious expansion plan for GYY. Why scratch around the margins at highly competitive MDW/ORD when B6 can be on the ground floor at GYY?


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13250 posts, RR: 100
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4683 times:
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Quoting Leelaw (Reply 21):
.it's kind of the LGB of the Chicago area.

Question, and I'm trying to be serious, how are the demographics around GYY? (Well to do? high traveling population?) The reason I ask is that LGB was always the airport in LA that should have been thriving due to the shear number of people with cash who live within 30 minutes of LGB. Or would it be better to compare GYY with ONT? (Most incomes < $80k/yr, average travel is less than two trips per year near ONT.)

And while I'm asking... what's the name of the airport NORTH of ORD that the city of Chicago is trying to promote as another alternative?

For Los Angeles (my home "town"), we have five commercial airports that seem to work. Since Chicago is only a bit smaller, I would guess it could support three or four. (Fewer partially due to the size of ORD.) But only BUR and SNA were early successes. ONT and then LGB were "late bloomers." Even now yields at ONT aren't spectacular (but then again, where are they?).

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4099 times:

I dont think that ORD/MDW is a good idea for B6 right now. The lack of space, congestion [ORD], NYC-CHI is overserved from LGA ... I think that there are bigger fish tio fry then Chicago right now.

As well .. I'm not sure that GYY would work. No one in the NYC area knows where Gary is [I guess the same could've been said for LGB and ONT] but I think we would have to spend a lot of time promoting it. As well .. RFD seems really far out of the way. Is there enough of a population base at each airport to support service to JFK?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
B6 would rather fly LGA-Chicago than JFK-Chicago, the lack of service on the JFK-Chicago route speaks volumes about it's potential.

STT757 .. actually, that's wrong. David Neeleman has said that he would rather start JFK-MDW/ORD then from LGA because any new slots we can get at LGA will go towards Florida service. He has always said that JFK is our home and will be our home. LGA serves JetBlue for additional Florida flying. The next cities to get LGA service on B6 will most likely be MCO, PBI, and TPA -- not a city we don't serve from JFK.


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3909 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 22):
Question, and I'm trying to be serious, how are the demographics around GYY? (Well to do? high traveling population?) The reason I ask is that LGB was always the airport in LA that should have been thriving due to the shear number of people with cash who live within 30 minutes of LGB. Or would it be better to compare GYY with ONT? (Most incomes < $80k/yr, average travel is less than two trips per year near ONT.)

Good point, not sure which area is the better comparison; for what it's worth, here are some very general demographic stats of the communities adjoining the airports:

Lake Co., IN (includes City of Gary and Gary Airport),

Population - 485K
Median Income - $42K
Poverty Rate - 12.2%

(City of Gary: Population - 102K, Median Income - $27K, Poverty Rate - 25.6%)

Porter Co., IN,

Population - 153K
Median Income - 53K
Poverty Rate - 9.5%

Long Beach, CA,

Population - 461K
Median Income - 37K
Poverty Rate - 23.8%

(L. A. County Overall: Median Income - 42K, Poverty Rate - 17.9%)

Ontario, CA,

Population - 158K
Median Income - 42K
Poverty Rate - 15.5%

(San Bernardino Co. Overall: Median Income - 42K, Poverty Rate - 15.8%)

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 22):
And while I'm asking... what's the name of the airport NORTH of ORD that the city of Chicago is trying to promote as another alternative?

I'm not aware of such an airport.


25 Ckfred : B6 has repeatedly said that it needs 4 or 5 gates to start service out of Chicago. It is not interested in sharing gates. I read back when ATA was loo
26 ORD2PHL : There are no more 'slots' persay at ORD....
27 AirportPlan : All international operations including AA and UA are exempt from the new ORD slot limits. Only domestic operations are covered under the rule. This i
28 Post contains links TedEx : UA has four Red Carpet Clubs at O'Hare. One on either end of the B Concourse, one in C and one by the UX gates in F that used to be the US lounge: htt
29 Mark777300 : All I know is, there is a huge gap that is available there that B6 can fill in rather nicely. There are hardly any flights between JFK and the Chicago
30 AirportPlan : Huge gap? Chicago to New York is one of the best served routes in the world. There are five airlines (AA, CO, DL, TZ UA) serving the EWR and LGA with
31 JFKLGANYC : "Most Chicago travelers really don't need to or want to travel through JFK when they can travel nonstop to almost any city from ORD or MDW." Actually
32 MAH4546 : Yes, they can, on Delta. There is a huge difference in the market. Chicago-New York City is a business market while Florida-New York City is a leisur
33 Ejmmsu : This flight is heavily fare restricted to keep the seats open for the lucrative international iteneraries. The price of this flight is often twice th
34 STT757 : I have a hard time believing that if given the chance they would rather fly to Chicago from JFK than LGA. Something other airlines have just been ove
35 AirportPlan : Unlike travelers from many other cities, Chicago travelers have no need to go to JFK? When they go to NYC they fly to LGA or EWR. When they go anywhe
36 Chicago757 : See, I think B6 would do good offering a route to JFK from MDW. No other carrier at MDW goes non-stop into JFK..... furthermore, no airline besides AT
37 Ckfred : ORD2PHL: There aren't slots per se, in that one airline can't sell an arrival or departure slot to another, but arrivals are capped at 88 per hour. So
38 Post contains links AirportPlan : I re-read the ORD slot rules and for international flights. Foreign flag carriers are usually exempt, but AA and UA must use their existing slots for
39 Mark777300 : AirportPlan said: Huge gap? Chicago to New York is one of the best served routes in the world. There are five airlines (AA, CO, DL, TZ UA) serving the
40 MAH4546 : IIRC, NYC-Chicago is the third most traveled air route in the US, after LA-SF, NYC-S. FL, and NYC-LA.
41 Chicago757 : I agree with you Mark777300
42 ERJ170 : ORD-EWR = 22 daily flights (7 AA, 8 CO, 7 UA) ORD-LGA = 33 daily flights (18 AA, 15 UA) ORD-JFK = 1 daily flight (1 DLConn) MDW-EWR = 8 daily flights
43 N1120A : Don't leave out the draw from places in Southeastern LA county like Walnut, parts of West Covina, etc. and upscale portions of SB and Riverside count
44 Leelaw : Interesting. Skiers, at least seasonally, accessing the local ski areas, generate significant traffic into ONT?
45 Post contains images ExFATboy : Does ONT really get that much traffic from skiers (or us cool people who snowboard instead )? I'd always thought most skiers/riders would rather fly t
46 FATFlyer : I always considered the ski resorts around that area like Mt. Baldy and Bear Mountain to be day use places since there are really no resort villages.
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