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Air Deccan - Be Careful!  
User currently offlineTKMCE From India, joined May 2002, 841 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4833 times:

India's first LCC- apparently going great guns. But be aware that there are chinks showing up.

Although they trumpeted with great fan fare the launch of servicees of the 4th and 5th A320s based in DEL and HYD, on March 27th making a total of 5 A320s, one of them seem to be still on the ground as I understand due to shortage of crews.

One of the two flights on the DEL BLR DEL , DEL BOM DEL and BOM BLR BOM have been continusously cancelled for the past few days (information thanks to what is provided helpfully in the Air Deccan website itself). There seems to be a serious shortage of crew and word is getting around that the reason is that they want staff to work on poverty level wages!

I can foresee the situation to get worse only now that the new start ups start operating. So be careful if you are booking tickets with them esp on the A320 sectors. ATR sectors seems to be stable so far although as I understand sectors like BOM AMD do get cancelled quite often.

And finally before you jump to Air Deccan for that cheap fare, check out the fares in the internet in the Jet Airways website. Jet is using Dynamic Yield Management so you may get cheap fares even at the last minute with hardly any restrictions. As I mentioned in a previous thread, I was able to get a MAA CJB fare for next day travel at Rs 1800 viz a viz Air Deccan' Rs 2800!

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStealthpilot From India, joined May 2004, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4710 times:

Yup DN is facing a crew shortage alright! They recently made a deal with KingFisher where they wouldn’t 'steal' each others employees, and I believe they agreed to help each other out in other aspects (share the new simulators coming up in Bangalore?)
Shortage of crew to fly the planes = wow! I wouldn’t be surprised if it occurred in the near future but I didn’t think it would happen so fast. Let’s hope this ‘shortage’ (mildly) continues for the next 2 years, makes my prospects of getting a job even better once I graduate  Smile
-Nikhil



eP007
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4507 times:

Shortage of Flying crew is a Big Issue among all Airlines currently,especially KF,AD,BD & Spicejet.
Even IA & AIe requires a lot.
Two F/Os left BD yesterday for IA.
Some Expats are being recruited soon.
Even AMEs shortages are creeping up.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4483 times:

Not that long ago Air Deccan were saying that they were going to order A380s see http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/1861695

Wishful thinking?



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4336 times:

Quoting BCAL (Reply 3):
Not that long ago Air Deccan were saying that they were going to order A380s

Even VM said it during a meeting with KF Crew & Engineers in Feb.
 
regds
MEL

[Edited 2005-04-08 07:31:43]


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4252 times:

I hope they dont cancel my flight for 13th, delay wud be fine.

I think the 4PM DEL from BOM is on the older 320s...


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4190 times:

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 5):
I think the 4PM DEL from BOM is on the older 320s...

Guru,From outside Its looks great.Nice Colour scheme especially the Blue strip.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4032 times:

They have rescheduled the 4PM flight to 4:50 PM now. I checked this on their site. they hadnot informed me about this. This is really un-professional.

Lets see how the experience goes.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3982 times:

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 7):
Lets see how the experience goes.

Hopefully you would be posting a Trip Report.
BTW when you returning.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3933 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 8):
Hopefully you would be posting a Trip Report.

My sister was here this weekend, and has taken my camera with her to Goa. I dont know how much exciting it wud be to post a report without pics.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 8):
BTW when you returning.

I am returning back on 18th late night or 19th early morning.

trying to get a cam from some frnd...


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3922 times:

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 9):
trying to get a cam from some frnd...

We will use mine to monitor the mini a.net meeting in DEL.. btw, tomorow I will do my best to get tickets for the last ODI - should I try to grab you one? SMS be best


User currently offlineAirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3912 times:

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 10):
SMS be best

hope you got the sms. pls grab one for me...


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3900 times:

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 11):
hope you got the sms. pls grab one for me...

Got it, will try me best in Lunch break tomorrow (after being sent from one place to the other today in my first attempt Big grin ) Ah, my India..  Wink


User currently offlineTKMCE From India, joined May 2002, 841 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

Back to the topic

IC, Jet and Sahara have all hiked fares by around 12% thanks due to the spiralling costs of ATF. But Air Deccan as usual have not raised fares saying their higher occupancy rates compensate for it.

Now this is all fine in theory- but in practice when you are having A320s, which they are struggling to keep on air (despite brave announcements - one of the five A 320s have been on the ground for the past ten days) due to a severe shortage of crew, is this such a smart move?? As it is they end up paying lease rentals on the aircraft, whether in the ground or in the air and in many of the routes now Jet is matching them move for move with their dynamic "Check Fares" now being introduced into the Mumbai Coimbatore route as well.

In addition to this I understand Deccan is hiring expat crews (not getting too many takers as I understand because of their spectaculary low salaries) and this pushes up their costs as well.

Also nowadays the loads are not as high as it used to be.

As of today (12th April) seats are avaiable for ALL Air Deccan flights on all sectors tommorrow, 13 April and they have over 10 flights a day from HYD. You should also remember that of these flights all except 3 are ATR flights.

Also a comparison of lowest fares (for 13 April) as of today (12 April) for Air Deccan vs Jet is interesting (all fares incl of taxes)

Hyderabad Chennai Deccan - Rs 2321 Jet - Rs 2911

Hyderabad Bangalore Deccan - Rs 3171 Jet- Rs 5171

Hyderabad Delhi Deccan - Rs 4921 Jet - Rs 4771

Hyderabad Kolkata Deccan - Rs 4871 Jet - Rs 4550



You can see that for two of the four sectors they compete head to head, Jet is cheaper than Deccan whle for Chennai sector they come close. Only in the case of BLR is there a big difference (but this is a sector Jet has a major capacity crunch with one ATR and a 737 which continues to CCU).

I have a feeling in view of all the above, Air Deccan is a bubble going to burst!!!!


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3733 times:

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 13):
I have a feeling in view of all the above, Air Deccan is a bubble going to burst!!!!

Let's see what happens when the other LCCs come.. there might be overcompetition. I think it is difficult to predict, but you may be right, though I think that they might become a good regional and trunk route player..

Maybe I should aply as beinga n FA with them.. they might even take me Big grin


User currently offlineAirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3684 times:

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 14):
aply as beinga n FA with them

with so many airlines coming up and an airline seat becoming more like a commodity, there might be huge opportunity in marketing as there can be lot of research involved, is anyone aware of such openings?


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3653 times:

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 13):
I have a feeling in view of all the above, Air Deccan is a bubble going to burst!!!!

In a couple of years there will be a few bubbles bursting No doubt.After the boom of 2005-06.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineTKMCE From India, joined May 2002, 841 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3642 times:

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 15):
with so many airlines coming up and an airline seat becoming more like a commodity, there might be huge opportunity in marketing as there can be lot of research involved, is anyone aware of such openings?

Not with Air Deccan. anyway!! As it is I heard even their pilot salaries are so lucrative that there are hardly any takers


User currently offlineAirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3519 times:

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 17):
Not with Air Deccan

what about Kingfisher. As a group, UB is very much into market research... all their brands are leaders in their categories, thanks to research...


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3427 times:

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 17):
As it is I heard even their pilot salaries are so lucrative that there are hardly any takers

Low cost carriers  Smile they will have to raise salaries to survive.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3386 times:

I really hope DN does survive, they've had a huge impact on the Indian airlines in the past year they've been in business, and it's all been for the better for the passengers.

The airlines themselves must be cursing DN for bringing much needed price competition into the market, and hence undoubtedly there will be many (vocal) detractors to the airline.

Given a market driven economy, pilots/mx folks need to get market based salaries, and if the market is on the way up, DN will need to follow as well. There's no way they can pull pilots out of thin air! If that means their air fares go up by a notch, so be it, since they'll still be much cheaper than full price tickets on traditional airlines.

Airlines having empty seats on any flight is a terrible thing, given that those seats are perishable. Hence it's great that 9W is introducing a load based pricing strategy. However full credit goes to DN, to force 9W to offer unused inventory at lower prices!



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineTKMCE From India, joined May 2002, 841 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3296 times:

As I see it the probllem with Air Deccan is they are in an overambitious expansion mode (memories of Vayudoot come to mind).

It is only now that they are introducing a second daily flights on routes like BOM-DEL or DEL - BLR. Having "half" a daily flight in stations like Hubli or Kolhapur doesnt do well as far as costs are concerned. Even if they are outsourcing such things such as Ground hndling or Check in, such small scale of operations arent cost effective.

The big difference with Air Deccan viz a viz airlines like Southwest is that the latter concentrated on building up frequencies over a few routes (like Dallas - Houston- San Antonio for South west) before they started spreading elsewhere. This is not the case for Air Deccan.

Take a look at their one or two flight frequency stations
Kolhapur/Belgaum/Surat/Nasik/Vijayawada/Tirupati/Vizag/Ahmedabad/Baroda/Jaipur/Agra/Bhopal/Kanpur/Jammu/Mangalore/Madurai/Coimbatore/Guwahati....................

How are you going to rationalise costs???


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3263 times:

AFAIK they should be allowed to go international after two years of successful operation.. that could be a money-making market (Far East, SAARC etc..). If they do so, they should focus on a few cities they perate from

One thing I wonder: do you think they have beytter chances of making cash within India or with international flights?


User currently offlineTKMCE From India, joined May 2002, 841 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3228 times:

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 22):
One thing I wonder: do you think they have beytter chances of making cash within India or with international flights?

I would say for Air Deccan atleast going international will be suicidal right now. While their head honcho keeps on saying that they have high load factors so they dont have to raise fares, I dont really know how long they can stick to this (maybe a case of foolish pride taking precedence over common sense?). How muh of these "high loads" are at LOW fares???

Low cost or high cost, fuel costs are the same for everyone. And in the case of Deccan, the 320 lease rentals I aussme will be quite high. Plus the fact that it is now becoming one of Indian Aviation's worst kept secrets that they are struggling for crew and as a result there are major service disruptions which again doesnt do their revenue flows any good.
How long will the situation remain like this...


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3184 times:

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 23):
How long will the situation remain like this...

Upto 2006,when the Bubble bursts.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
25 AirIndia : will be posting a detailed trip report, but in short, DN is trying to get airtravel to the masses. In my flight there could have been as many as 50% f
26 Mrniji : We will talk today, after I call Pran (in office, as his son used his mobile like a cricket ball) and Kartik
27 Post contains images HAWK21M : Interesting. Did you get the Tickets for the match or is the meet someplace else. regds MEL
28 AirIndia : this seems very unlikely. rush is maddening. we have decided to see the match in some common place. thats a beter idea.... will get the pics...
29 Mrniji : Yes after Teams India's fascinating performance in the last three odis, I do not want to spend one Paisa for the tickets and consider to recommend Ar
30 AirIndia : sorry subin. cud not reply your call as I was in the middle of something very urgent. will call you in the mornng....
31 Post contains images HAWK21M : Yeah,since last year I only watch the Highlights regds MEL
32 TKMCE : Highlights or Lowlights ????
33 Post contains images HAWK21M : Higlights for the Visitors regds MEL
34 COUGARRIDES : Rajeev does have a point. I just booked myself on Jet HYD-BOM-PNQ for 16-May for an unbelievable fare of 3460 of which INR1300 was for BOM-PNQ! While
35 VictorTango : Hey Roy welcome back.... You grown old pretty quick! BTW you be joining us for the meet at BOM? Olly
36 HAWK21M : Yeah Roy.Would you be back from Ladakh by then. This time it looks like a Big Gang meeting up. regds MEL
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