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WHY BA Left Caracas And Bogota?  
User currently offlineGaleaoCumbica From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 94 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3748 times:

Hi all,

Sorry if this topic was posted before but I was out for a while and I would like to know why BA left these two countries (Venezuela and Colombia) from their routes.

Thanks

GaleaoCumbica

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4969 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3728 times:

Not profitable.

Enough said.


User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2342 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3687 times:

I never understood that route anyway.


The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3666 times:

Fly 'em to MIA, put them on an AA codeshare, put your T7's on another route.

UAL


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3646 times:

They said no profits. Really weird considering loads in both Y and J were good. Maybe the stopover made it unprofitable. And now people are using AC, IB and AF. AA, DL and CO get almost no traffic from BOG to LON. A real loss for oneworld.


Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineJuanr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3621 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):
Fly 'em to MIA, put them on an AA codeshare, put your T7's on another route.

Not a smart choice for those passengers who has no US Visa, and for those of us who have one is not smart either, who would like to deal with that rude immigration agents at MIA?; it was a bad move from BA which has certainly make IB and AF happy. Fortunately AV plans to restart their non-stop BOG-LON service soon.

Juan
SKBO


User currently offlineBAxMAN From St. Helena, joined May 2004, 671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3607 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 4):
They said no profits. Really weird considering loads in both Y and J were good. Maybe the stopover made it unprofitable. And now people are using AC, IB and AF. AA, DL and CO get almost no traffic from BOG to LON. A real loss for oneworld

Given AA and IB's big presence in BOG and CCS, BA's departure won't be noticed by Oneworld.

The addition of PVG and BLR will be noticed, though.

As to it being a 'bad move' by BA....well, it's bad for the users of the service but good for the company as a whole in using those very expensive slots at LHR to almost dead cert money spinners in China and India.



I need to get laid
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3598 times:

Yes, India and China are monney makers. But BOG and CCS werent money loosers either. I think we are seeing the consecuences of aircraft shortage.
AA and IB carry a lot of O&D pax, almost full flights, they have not much seats left to accomodate ex-BA pax. IB carrying more then AA b/c of visa restrictions.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineBAxMAN From St. Helena, joined May 2004, 671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3583 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 7):
Yes, India and China are monney makers. But BOG and CCS werent money loosers either

Clearly, they were money losers. Or at least not earning enough money to justify a slot at LHR.

BA is doing pretty well financially at the moment and management would not have jacked in the routes if they were contributing to that.

If BA had plenty of slots to play around with then BOG and CCS would have stood a good chance of remaining on the schedules. The reality is that every Tom, Dick and Harry wants to fly from LHR so if you're lucky enough to get a slot, you're going to want to get the maximum benefit from it.



I need to get laid
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2570 posts, RR: 31
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3514 times:

CCS and BOG used to be flown from LGW. It changed back to LHR around 2002 when service was downgraded from 772 to 763.When it was upgraded back to 772 last year, I thought that they were going to fly to LGW again....

If BA decided to have the flight departing from LHR instead of LGW in the last couple of years is because of something good about the route...


User currently offlineSpeedbird2155 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 871 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3471 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 9):
If BA decided to have the flight departing from LHR instead of LGW in the last couple of years is because of something good about the route...

No it was simply a move based on the fact that the longhaul 767s are LHR and that was the aircraft used on those routes for a period. Similarly, NAS/GCM/PLS isare LHR based as the aircraft on those routes are 767s.


User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2570 posts, RR: 31
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3431 times:

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 10):
No it was simply a move based on the fact that the longhaul 767s are LHR and that was the aircraft used on those routes for a period.

Exactly that's why I expected the flight to move back to LGW when it was upgraded last year from 763 to 772, but that didn't happen. Why did they keep LHR after changing from 763 to 772?


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3392 times:

If the CCS and BOG slot at LHR was wanted for other routes, then they should have moved it back to LGW where both destinations were served from for years by BCal and then BA.

The real reason they abandoned the routes may have something to do with their partner IB and their greed for total domination in Spanish South America,


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3383 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 12):
If the CCS and BOG slot at LHR was wanted for other routes, then they should have moved it back to LGW where both destinations were served from for years by BCal and then BA.

The real reason they abandoned the routes may have something to do with their partner IB and their greed for total domination in Spanish South America,

Which would be fine for BA - their weakest region, so leave most of it to IB to serve with AA. BA can concentrate on flying to the Middle and Far East.

IB's greed for total domination - a bit strong isn't it. They are maximising the strongest part of their network - nothing greedy in that. That's what any sensible carrier should do. IB is making a profit, so its the sensible thing to do. What are they supposed to do, not link MAD up with the major cities in Latin America ?? Let others take those market opportunities??



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3384 times:

No, I suppose it makes good sense for IB, its just that Caracas and Bogota have long been served from London with Bcal, BA and Avianca and Viasa and now we have no direct flight to either destination.

I would like to see AV return with their 767s to London. They would surely clean up!


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3377 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 14):
would like to see AV return with their 767s to London. They would surely clean up!

Yeah would be good to see AV back. I remember when they came back (for a brief while) in around 1999/00 (I think) and we used to see their distinctive orange colours fly past the office window into LHR.

Maybe with their new investment it might happen...



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2570 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3354 times:

Quoting Cornish (Reply 15):
Yeah would be good to see AV back. I remember when they came back (for a brief while) in around 1999/00 (I think) and we used to see their distinctive orange colours fly past the office window into LHR.

I think you are confusing Viasa with Avianca. Avianca has a red livery and it is from Colombia (flew 767s). Viasa (RIP) was from Venezuela and had orange tails. Used to fly DC-10s to LHR.


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3350 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 16):
think you are confusing Viasa with Avianca. Avianca has a red livery and it is from Colombia (flew 767s). Viasa (RIP) was from Venezuela and had orange tails. Used to fly DC-10s to LHR.

No no, I was referring to Avianca. I think of their old colur scheme as more deep orange than red. Viasa colurs I know - a lighter orange on white with some blue I beleive. But VIASA had already gone by the time I started work at IATA (in 1998, and VIASA went in around 96/97 I think).

AV was definitely what I was referring to. I think of Virgin colours for example as red - AV more orange to me, but maybe that's just a personal opinion.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3344 times:

Oh the good old days! when we had Viasa operating the DC10 from LHR to Caracas and Margarita and Avianca going into LGW with the 707!

User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2537 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3337 times:

LON, as well as LAX, are priority routes for AV to restart.
I trust that it will happen this Summer, or for the Winter timetable at the latest. They are working on it as we discuss this matter.

I do understand that there are other routes on which BA can make money more easily: China has been mentioned. Also new flights to India. This, added to the shortage of long haul aircraft influenced the decision to stop CCS and BOG.
BA may want to come back, from LGW perhaps, when all their 767s have been refitted. What I would like, of course, is for some other British airline to take on the route: Somebody like bmi, or Virgin, or evenone of the charter ones..
But for the moment, a clear path for AV suits me just fine.


User currently offlineMIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1342 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3281 times:

I am in accordance w/ BA ending flights to BOG & CCS, they really did not make any sense. Yes they may have a percentage of business traffic coming in from the Mid-East and other points but not enough to make the route profitable in my opinion. Another interesting point to be brought up is that historically speaking their really is not a large British/Venezuelan population that either lives in Venezuela and travels to the U.K. or vice versa. For example, their is a large population of Italians/Venezuelans that travel in between the 2 countries and thus AZ can offer flights to MXP & FCO from CCS.
Keyword = Demand.

Just my 2cents...



Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4745 posts, RR: 44
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3240 times:

With regards to BAs CCS and BOG flights, was it more O&D traffic or were their flights been fed from traffic scattered across Europe bound for these two South American cities?

If BAs main traffic consisted of O&D then I see no reason why they couldnt have switched the route from LHR to LGW if aircraft were available.


User currently offlineAV757 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3198 times:
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The BA BOG-LON-BOG route started losing passengers to a point where it was not profitable any more, even with the stopover at CCS. The problem for the Colombian citizens who want to go to and from Europe through LON is the costly visas to the United Kingdom because:

1) The expensive visa that is required to visit the United Kingdom as a Colombian citizen.

2) The mandatory transit visa required for Colombian citizens, even if you are only going to be at LHR for a couple of hours to catch a connecting flight to or from the European continent.

3) The mandatory Schengen visa to enter continental Europe as a Colombian citizen.

So I do not see BOG-LON-BOG as a viable route for AV at the moment when there are other routes that take you direct to Europe without going through LON to reduce travel costs to the Colombian passenger. Plus the fact that AV would also need to incorporate another Boeing 767 to its fleet to be able to operate this route.

The LAX route is also one that may be viable as a non stop flight BOG-LAX-BOG, having a decent operational departure and arrival time to allow passenger connections to and from the west coast of the U.S. and the orient;
and if it includes cargo to compensate for operational costs during the low season of the year since the historical occupation is mainly an ethnic Colombian passenger having good loads only on summer vacations and the Christmas holidays.

AV757


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3192 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 12):
The real reason they abandoned the routes may have something to do with their partner IB and their greed for total domination in Spanish South America

I agree with AV757. BA's withdrawal from CCS and BOG does not have anything to do with IB, othewrsie BA would have pulled out of GRU (daily B747), EZE (4 x week B747), GIG (3 x week B747) and MEX (3 x week B747).

Rgs,


User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2570 posts, RR: 31
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3175 times:

I think AV has 2 choices if they ever fly to LON again:

1) Fly nonstop with a small 762
2) Fly via CCS with a large 763

Which one do you think will be more profitable for AV if they ever fly to LHR again?


25 MIASkies : I actually think it might be profitable for AV to fly with LON via SJU with 763. VS serves SJU right now w/ cruise charters so that would A) Give AV t
26 Rojo : First, it will be hard for AV to get fifth freedom rights on the SJU-LON-SJU route. AV will have to ask the US government (DOT) but I don't think it
27 MIASkies : Good point Rojo...missed that one. But in my opinion, now a days everyone should just get the VISA anyway and just have it. As for the 5th freedom rig
28 Bogota : I was a regular on the route, now switched to AF as IB are not up to standard for me. AA is out of the question as the US is out of the question if it
29 Dsa : Not enough demand, not so many Britons are interested in visiting these countries regularly or at all!
30 AV757 : MIASkies your idea on the BOG-SJU-LON-SJU-BOG route is a valid one, but operationally speaking for transit passengers with the 9/11 security procedure
31 JUANR : MIA there isn't either large populations of French in Colombia and Venezuela and still AF is now offering daily non stop flights from BOG and CCS. Ju
32 Avianca : the problem of the lhr-ccs-bog route were the operational costs, and that just for 3 weekly flights with B767 and than B777. But on the other side the
33 RCS763AV : Efromovich wants more AV routes. Dont be surprised to see AV in LON soon...but dont hold your breath. Also, AV´s old colors were deep red, not orange
34 Summa767 : Whilst I have to agree with AV757's reasons against the BOG-LON route for Avianca, I think that the prospects for opening this route again should be l
35 Avianca : depending what old colors, years ago (not the last red one) the color was deep orange!
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