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You Know What, I Like The TSA!  
User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3382 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2989 times:

I'm sorry, I just read another thread entitled "Bye, Bye TSA," celebrating a supposed dismantling of our nation's airport security team.

As a pilot who is well-hearsed on our nation's aviation system, the TSA is a BIG improvement from pre-9/11 screeners.

1. It provides a universal standard at every single airport in the nation.

2. Universal training, procedures, practices.

3. Employees who are more educated than previous screeners.

4. An incentive/pay program that attracts better screeners.

The biggest complaints I have heard about the TSA are long lines and short staffing . . . guess what, the TSA doesn't control this!

OUR U.S. government is responisble for underfunding this operation from day one. It is no secret that many Republican Congressional members and the President have been against the TSA since its inception. Now they will take it away.

My biggest argument against private, untrained, uneducated screeners without a universal front is plain and simple:

2-110 story buildings

4-Aircraft

1-Military Headquarters

and most importantly . . . 2000+ LIVES!

A return to the past repeats the mistakes of the past.

PJ

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2981 times:

You're bold to say this! I will respectfully disagree with you, but I will also say it's a little unfair to say that private security led to 9/11 happening. I think there are plenty of examples of TSA ineptitude out there that could potentially let a 9/11 tragedy to happen again. IMO, no security could have stopped what happened that day. I think if you're determined to hijack a plane with tiny boxcutters, you keep trying until you get it right, and ultimately you will.



I can't wait till ANCFlyer reads this and tells you how much he loves the TSA


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2946 times:

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Thread starter):
1. It provides a universal standard at every single airport in the nation

                          

You have GOT to be kidding! Universal standard/ Every Single Airport?

                          

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Thread starter):
3. Employees who are more educated than previous screeners.

I doubt that . . . seriously doubt that. Sure they may all have to be US citizens and be able to speak English, but I doubt the education level is any higher.

They are morons. Just as stupid as the idiots they replaced, only now they understand it when you tell them that - they just don't give you the 'deer in the flippin' headlights' look. Some are the same idiots - only NOW they are federal employees!

There is no consistency. Shoes at one airport, not at another. Hats at one airport, not at another. Belts at one airport, not at another. What frickin' consistency are you talking about? Consistently scerwed up - yup, that's the ONLY part you got right.

Underfunded . . . then explain to me why there were 39 nine of them for two - count 'em - two security lanes at ANC on 3/24/05 at 11:50am when I arrived. As an example of course. I count them each time - just to see how many are there. I'm curious as to how many their "doctrine" calls for and how many are actually doing something out of the 39 counted that day.

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Thread starter):
Now they will take it away.

GOOD! That's what you do with a disease - you get rid of it!

TSA=THOUSANDS STANDING AROUND=USELESS

[Edited 2005-04-08 20:33:27]

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2943 times:

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Thread starter):
2. Universal training, procedures, practices

I forgot this one. Please my reference to your #1 in the post above!


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2934 times:

BTW, the contract screeners had nothing to do with the events that happened on 9/11/01. The screeners at BOS that morning let items pass that were not on any "not allowed" list the FAA (then overseeing airport screening) had.

So we reacted by replacing one incompetent US Government Agency, with an entirely new incompentent US Government agency.

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Thread starter):
As a pilot who is well-hearsed on our nation's aviation system, the TSA is a BIG improvement from pre-9/11 screeners.

1. It provides a universal standard at every single airport in the nation.

No, it doesn't. The standards are only "universal" within each TSA District.

2. Universal training, procedures, practices.

Yeah, "feeling up" women who wear an under wire bra for weapons. Emptying baby bottle formaulars. Additional screening for Grandma, but no extra screening for Arab men between 17-40, because we don't want to offend them with racial profiling.

3. Employees who are more educated than previous screeners.

??? TSA Screeners are not required to have a high school deploma.

4. An incentive/pay program that attracts better screeners.

Yeah, we pay them more than they are worth. $30K per year, per screener, to screen baggage and passengers and threat everyone (except the 17-40 year old Arab men) like the terrorist we are.


BTW, most of the screeners hired by TSA came from the former screener contractor companies.

Look at how many TSA screeners who are now in jail for theft, or who had to be fired because they had prior felonies.

We were actually safer right after 9/11 when we were still using contract screeners, backed up by the Army National Guard.

Under the TSA we are actually LESS-SAFE, today when compared to the morning of 9/10/01, according to the GAO.


User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2924 times:

JFKLGANYC:
Welcome to my respected list. I agree 100% and I think the agents need to stay and the US should get one contract to a privat firm to handle the rest since the government can't really handle security too well. However, its the federal $ and the fact that they are government employees that make them so motivated, so don't change that.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16998 posts, RR: 67
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2868 times:

I will admit that the average TSA screening is better and more professional than happened in the USA before, but in Europe and Asia screenings are way superior, and have been that way for decades.

In the UK, which has been the victim of terrorist attacks for decades, the screeners are efficient and polite. No yelling, no herding of cattle. If someone beeps, no holding up a hundred people to let that person go through again. A respectful but very thorough body search. And none of this absurd taking the shoes off. If you beep, they check under the shoes. That's it.

How hard is that?



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineDallas74 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2843 times:

The TSA was a knee jerk reaction to a catastrophe the US Government should have prevented through our Intelligence networks.

After 9/11 there will never be a group of passive passengers - so no group that gets up trying to take over a plane will go unchallenged by the rest of the folks sitting in the cabin, therefore the need to screen passengers with a new high level security force was nothing more than a PR stunt.

The TSA is a joke. It screens passengers, but mail and cargo enter the commercial system with ease and no screening at all.

The Bush Administration is selling Snake Oil to the US flying public and the general population when a serious solution is needed to combat global terrorism. Our problem is not with today's airline passenger. It is with our failure to gather and understand intelligence and control our Southern and Northern Borders.

Creating the illusion that airplanes are safer does not mean they are.

It's sad that people accept the unreality of the current administration in Washington.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2839 times:

The one thing that DOES bother me is the overstaffing. Why do you need 39 TSA agents on duty for only two lines formed? Can someone tell me WHY you need 39 TSA agents on duty for just two lines open? In reality, I can assume that one line needs no more than 5-6 per line open. 1 for the x-ray machine, 1 for the walk through metal detector, 2 for physical pat down for selectees, 1 for bag search at the end of the x-ray machine and a supervisor for that one line.

So....why need 39 people for two open lines? Isnt that a waste of federal tax dollars? Can somebody explain this to me please?!

The second thing that annoys me the most is the theft problem. Those agents are thinking "Im a federal employee, nobody is gonna stop me from taking anything from luggage!" Until they're caught, arrested, jailed and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

So what gives? Theft and 39 people on one shift? Something smells fishy!!



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16998 posts, RR: 67
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 8):
So....why need 39 people for two open lines? Isnt that a waste of federal tax dollars?

Yes...



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2826 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
Yes...

I thought so! I was being sarcastic....LOL!



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineGothamSpotter From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2810 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
Yeah, we pay them more than they are worth. $30K per year, per screener, to screen baggage and passengers and threat everyone (except the 17-40 year old Arab men) like the terrorist we are.

$30,000 is not a lot of money for someone who has that level of responsibility. I agree that the lack of proper profiling is an awful problem, but it is a problem with all of our nation's security agencies who are afraid of the PC Police, not just the TSA.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 8):
The second thing that annoys me the most is the theft problem. Those agents are thinking "Im a federal employee, nobody is gonna stop me from taking anything from luggage!" Until they're caught, arrested, jailed and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I would imagine the current crop of Federal screeners is a lot less likely to steal than the hundreds of ex-cons and illegal aliens who were fired when the TSA took over from the private security firms.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16819 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2799 times:

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 1):
IMO, no security could have stopped what happened that day.

The FAA mandating better protected Cockpit doors would have made it much harder if not prevented the events, there were several cockpit intrusions just prior to and right before September 2001 which should have all rasied flags of caution to the FAA to mandate stronger doors. The specific example Im thinking of is on a British Airways 747-400 flight somewhere over Africa where a deranged man broke into the Cockpit with the intent of crashing the plane, there were several other similar instances in the months and years prior to 9-11-01. While it was hard to envision what happened on 9-11, it was not hard to envision other types of cockpit intrusions (air rage etc..).

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Thread starter):
My biggest argument against private, untrained, uneducated screeners without a universal front is plain and simple:

2-110 story buildings

4-Aircraft

1-Military Headquarters

and most importantly . . . 2000+ LIVES!

A return to the past repeats the mistakes of the past.

Again a FAA order mandating airlines use stronger doors would most likely prevented the hijackings, or made them much more difficult as to force the terrorists to scrap the mission.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineVSMike From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 318 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2783 times:

Whatever.
Usless thread.
Requesting thread deletion based on implied ignorance.



Skyteam. Caring More About Me.
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3466 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2773 times:

I completely disagree with you. The TSA people who've screened me have been nothing but rude. I hope they all get fired. I've never been yelled at so badly before for not putting my shoes in a little box. How ridiculous!

Jeremy


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3924 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2752 times:

i had a lady here in IAH deny me access with my company ID......only until her supervisor came over and told her that i was to be allowed through, did she show any sort of common sense.....i love it, terminal b, i'm putting my stuff on the belt, and they yell at me take your shoes off, i said no there fine, sir you'll be sent to secondary screening"......i respond, "why", "b/c" (what a professional and educational response)....however once they see my badge they shut their mouth...what kind of consistency is that? i cant wait to get rid of them!!! good riddance.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4234 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2734 times:

I am going to say this. The complaints about the TSA are legit, but they are better than what we had before 9-11 where you were paying minimum wage to people to screen. Obviously the level of professionalism needs to improve, but that was a problem before TSA.

My biggest issue with going back to private screening is this. We live in a capitalist society. The goal of switching back the private screener would be in my opinion to reduce the cost to the taxpayer. However, I have seen it time and time again in this country. Who ever was contracted to do the job would not be doing the job to keep us safe, they would be doing it for the money. And since there is no incentive for what they should pay, you will see $5.15/hour screening again. This is very dangerous in my opinion, because you get what you pay for. The biggest problem is because you are in a big hurry to hire so many people to fill all the needs, shortcuts are taken to make deadlines, and background checks aren't done as fast as they should be and applicants aren't screened as thoroughly as they should be. If you go back to private screening, you are only going to have this problem all over again, but because of the pay, you aren't going to get the best candidates, not that we are now, but it is better now than it was. The only way this can be resolved is with time and better oversight. It would be a lot easier if candidates weren't worrying so much about campaign funds and more worried about serving. Thats the biggest threat to democracy in the country right now.

My other big issue is the ticket passenger issue. This is intended to reduce delays at security checkpoints. I hope and pray that this issue can be resolved since I think the act of checking boarding passes seems to take time as well. I used to like spotting from the pier in Terminal C at BOS.

A message to congress, if we can't afford the TSA, how can we afford to pay for the paper hall of fame (no joke) here in ATW with taxpayer money, and all the other pork barrell projects in this country.


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3924 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2723 times:

why are they better? b/c of a federal title? many of these are the same employees that were there before 9/11


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4234 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2717 times:

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 17):
why are they better? b/c of a federal title? many of these are the same employees that were there before 9/11

All I will say to that is the fact that there were security agencies before the TSA that were so bad, they ended up being banned from screening by certain airport authorities. A good example is Argenbright at BOS.

Don't complain about the shoes. The screener was exactly right. One time I didn't take off my shoes and set off the metal detector and ended up in secondary screening. Dress shoes and many other shoes have metal parts to them that will set off the sensitive magnetometers. Better to be safe and take them off so that you can avoid the secondary screening rather than be held up at the checkpoint.

I will say this much though, if they shut up after you showed a company id, that really concerns me. Yes we work for the airlines, but the goal of the Checkpoints is to keep prohibited items off of airplanes. If they make exceptions for airline employees, that undermines the whole purpose and could lead to a problem. Just as much as might happen if we don't start screening all the cargo and the ramp vehicles and stuff like that.


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2682 times:

The TSA protecting us, is just like forcing American citizens to now get passports when they go to Canada. Its pointless and not making us any bit safer.

Just like if a terrorist wants to get into this country, he is not going to go through legal checkpoints on Canada and Mexican borders and risk getting caught. He will sneak in through thousands of miles of unmanned border.

Why not just keep the pre 9-11 screeners (oh wait we did). Now we pay them twice as much to stand around and twiddle their thumbs. If the government wanted so badly to blow money in the name of "security", they could have bought the private companies the equipment, and enforced the same policies that TSA tries to now (yeah, we could have the private screeners search 80 year old women and 5 year old boys too). But we could save lots of government money by letting the private screeners do that, but no... everything is Spend, spend, spend.

I question whether we are really more safe.


User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2636 times:

what are all those perv tsa guys/gals in denver going to do if they go back to WACKENHUT or ARGENBRIGHT????they will follow the scent of teenage cheerleaders going to mco like they have done before...albeit for a reduced wage......GOOD RIDDANCE........


bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12892 posts, RR: 100
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2608 times:
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Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
but in Europe and Asia screenings are way superior, and have been that way for decades.

I agree! With the TSA, it such an inefficient system. Personally, I think the delays are killing USA aviation. Who flies less than 250 miles now? Not me!

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
In the UK, which has been the victim of terrorist attacks for decades, the screeners are efficient and polite.

Very. And they can "pat down" anyone without creating undue stress. And when you're patted down, you know they'll catch everything!

Although, I never can get used to "bobbies" with assault rifles... But that's just my perception.  Smile

Like everyone else, I'm frustrated at waiting in lines for screeners who just do not seem to be doing their jobs. Why does it take so many per line?

9/11 won't happen again just due to the mindset. Pilots, f/a, and pax now know to defend the cockpit or else. Hijacking will never be looked at the same. I'm not saying don't have security; x-raying luggage actually makes sense to me.

Ok, rant mode off.
Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineWingspan From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2566 times:

I like the TSA too. If they leave, there will be problems too many to list.


Over the years, I've found that common sense is not that common.
User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2553 times:

i place my own life in their hands every day.

i support their mission. i support their training. i support the staff.

the tsa has problems. i think a lot of people feel their space is invaded somehow, or that they're being told what to do, and they don't like it.

i think a lot of this uproar over them is about ego, not about real issues.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2547 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 19):
Just like if a terrorist wants to get into this country, he is not going to go through legal checkpoints on Canada and Mexican borders and risk getting caught.

Well, they have tried it before, and they will try it again.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
25 CVG2LGA : edit [ and ] will stand for quotation marks, my apologies, my keyboard is a bit battered these days. background on me....ive worked at cvg for six yea
26 Boeing7E7 : 1. This is a policy issue. 2. This is a policy issue. 3. Bullshot. They're the same people and having had experience with them, they are not very bri
27 Aa777jr : I agree with the above statement that the only reason that TSA exists is the Bush people flipped out that we got rocked on 9.11.01 and had to try and
28 Ushermittwoch : This is a correct statement and shows where the REAL DANGER lies. The FAA is the WORST agency in the Western World. How often have they looked away,
29 KC135TopBoom : President Bush was against building another incompetent government agency. It was all those "bright" people in Congress (both Democrats and Republica
30 CVG2LGA : apparently you missed the first section of my post, where i stated that i have been on the other side of the fence. i used to go through security to g
31 MQrampBOS : Not sure the screeners in BOS had anything to do with it either. The AA11 hijackers came through PWM. Think the UA175 hijackers came through another
32 Airlinelover : 1. It provides a universal standard at every single airport in the nation. That's what they wanted to do but failed miserably, unless you look at thei
33 Delta767300ER : It doesent take much to be a screener I take? I also heard rumors that some pre-9/11 screeners didnt even have H/S Diplomas/GED's..... -Delta767300ER
34 Airlinelover : the government can't really handle security too well. At least FLAIRPORT got SOMETHING right.. They let scum like him stay on the streets stalking pe
35 Delta767300ER : LMAO Chris. He deserves the Loser of the month award. Back to TSA, How much do screeners make per year anyway? Seems like it would be a boring job. If
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