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Qatar AWs 6 Per Week To Athens? What The?  
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3314 posts, RR: 20
Posted (9 years 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4076 times:

I can't believe that QR is launching 4pw DOH-ATH services on 15 June, and increasing to 6pw by 1 July???

I understand that most times QR do not make commercially viable decisions, but this is absolute suicide!

Where do they intend to feed pax to/from???

They still dont have any Australian services, which would have assisted in at least getting some pax onto the service. The greece-originating market is VERY small, and there is plenty of capacity from Asia to Athens...

EK - 5pw
GF - daily
TG - 2-3pw
SQ - 2-3pw

I think that on most days these A320's will be going out with 15-20% loads.... and that's on a good day.

Comments?

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJambo From Tanzania, joined Dec 2004, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4036 times:

Quoting 6thfreedom (Thread starter):
I understand that most times QR do not make commercially viable decisions

?? - Examples please


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3314 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3911 times:

OK, most times may have been a little bit rich.
but the general feeling within the industry is that QR services are often supported by oil and gas money from Qatar rather than pax returns.

Regardless, my point on ATH services remains. Can anyone elaborate on current traffic levels between Qatar and Greece, and more importantly, how QR will support these services??


User currently offlineGardermoen From Australia, joined Jul 1999, 1520 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3899 times:

Could this possibly mean the Melbourne service will finally get started soon? There is a large ATH-MEL market, and QR could do well if it offered good connections through Doha, like Gulf Air has done on the ATH-SYD route via Bahrain.

User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3886 times:

Hmmm maybe they do have a few things on the agenda... I am sure there is a reason to back this increase.

User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4716 posts, RR: 44
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3897 times:

The main O&D routes of QR are to LHR, India, MNL, BKK, CGK, CMB, DAC, Saudia and BEY. All their other long/medium haul routes are largely aimed at the 6th freedom traffic...just like EK and GF...though EK has more O&D traffic appeal than these airlines due to the financial and tourist prestige of DXB all over the world now.

User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3314 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

Quoting Gardermoen (Reply 3):
Could this possibly mean the Melbourne service will finally get started soon? There is a large ATH-MEL market, and QR could do well if it offered good connections through Doha, like Gulf Air has done on the ATH-SYD route via Bahrain.

certainly is.... although I would have expected services to start in paralle.
also the peak travel period australia-greece is april-sept, so i think they've missed a major opportunity.


User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5574 posts, RR: 32
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3848 times:

Quoting 6thfreedom (Thread starter):
I understand that most times QR do not make commercially viable decisions, but this is absolute suicide!

I flew with them four times and I have to say they just reeked MONEY! Very impressive, and with an A330 flying Doha-Colombo with less than 100 pax they obviously don't care about costs. GREAT airline. Best I've ever flown with, and that includes Singapore and Cathay!


User currently offlineMika10021 From Greece, joined Jul 2004, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3826 times:

There might not be a big passenger market but the cargo is pretty good.Also there are a lot of muslim people in Athens and the Greece-Australia market is pretty big.
And I have a change to see the motogp in Qatar.


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3314 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3756 times:

will be interesting to see if QR commences its proposed DOH-BKK-MEL services in October 2005. This service was announced about 18 months ago, but I havent heard anything yet.

User currently offlineAleksandar From Serbia, joined Jul 2000, 3235 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3658 times:

It doesn't sound like a bad idea. Even if passenger market in Greece is low, they could attract transit passengers from other countries in the region.

You should not look only at Greek market, but the market of the whole region and today every additional passenger counts.



R-E-S-P-E-C-T
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3314 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3532 times:

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 10):
It doesn't sound like a bad idea. Even if passenger market in Greece is low, they could attract transit passengers from other countries in the region.

You should not look only at Greek market, but the market of the whole region and today every additional passenger counts.

Unfortunately greece is not the ideal place for this A.
Would you travel from Belgrade to Athens to connect to a QR flight to Doha and beyond? There are other hubs which are much closer, and there are also direct services. In terms of catchment area for QR in Athens -
Rome and MIlan are already served
Istanbul has services
Zagreb and Belgrade are better served through Vienna or northern hubs.

This translates to poor catchment ex-ATH...


User currently offlineBCNGRO From Andorra, joined Oct 2004, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

Quoting 6thfreedom (Thread starter):
Where do they intend to feed pax to/from???

I saw a QR banner advertising the route and I thought the same.

Quoting Gardermoen (Reply 3):
There is a large ATH-MEL market

Sorry but I don't get why  scratchchin .



At the bus station, buses stop. At the train station, trains stop. At my desk, I have a work station.
User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6604 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3481 times:

According to the arab air carriers online timetable

http://www.aaco.org/schedule.asp

it is showing as 2 per week (days 3 and 7) from 15 June.
QR473/472 0850-1325/1530-1930 to/from Athens with an A320.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3479 times:

Even PIA (still?) serves ATH.. probably we are just underestimating the capacity of Greece??

User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3314 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3427 times:

Quoting BCNGRO (Reply 12):
Quoting Gardermoen (Reply 3):
There is a large ATH-MEL market

Sorry but I don't get why

Believe it or not, Melbourne has the largest Greek population of any city outside of Greece, and is in fact regarded as the 3rd largest Greek speaking city in the world, after Athens and Thessaloniki.

1st, 2nd and 3rd generation Greeks in melbourne are rumoured to be over 700,000!

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 13):
According to the arab air carriers online timetable

http://www.aaco.org/schedule.asp

it is showing as 2 per week (days 3 and 7) from 15 June.
QR473/472 0850-1325/1530-1930 to/from Athens with an A320.

QR;s website, and OAG show 6pw!!

Can anyone clarify??


User currently offlineAirMale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 375 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3418 times:

This is what AMADEUS has to say:

** AMADEUS - TN ** DOH DOHA.QA 15JUN05 22J
1 QR 475 2 ATH DOH 0715 1115 0 21JUN05 25OCT05 320 4:00
2 QR 475 4 ATH DOH 0715 1115 0 16JUN05 27OCT05 320 4:00
3 QR 473 37 ATH DOH 1530 1930 0 15JUN05 26OCT05 320 4:00
4 QR 473 15 ATH DOH 1720 2120 0 17JUN05 28OCT05 320 4:00



.....up there with the best!
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3314 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3390 times:

thanks airmale... that's what i thought!

anthing on the system for doh-mel or doh-syd?


User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2226 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3384 times:

Who knows, maybe ATH service will be extended further north to SOF or BEG for example...


Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3314 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3369 times:

unlikely joker!

The Greek Govt charges royalties for beyond services...

that's why TG in the past suspended ATH-FCO, and ATH-GVA!
any services beyond athens is difficult.

EK also dropped ATH-MLA in favour of LCA-ATH ....


User currently offlineAirMale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 375 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3329 times:

DOH-MEL or SYD will not happen anytime soon. QR does not have the right equipment for the route. QR depends on connecting traffic and selling Europe to Australia with 2 stops is simply too much. Competitors do it with one stop for the same fare.


.....up there with the best!
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3314 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3267 times:

Quoting AirMale (Reply 20):
DOH-MEL or SYD will not happen anytime soon. QR does not have the right equipment for the route. QR depends on connecting traffic and selling Europe to Australia with 2 stops is simply too much. Competitors do it with one stop for the same fare.

i know what u r saying airmale, but lots or airlines are still doing it... and doing quite well.

EK - EUROPE/DXB/SIN/MEL
TG - EUROPE/BKK/SYD/MEL
OS - EUROPE/VIE/SIN/MEL

And u can prob add QF and BA to the list for anywhere except LHR + FRA..
EUROPE-LHR/FRA-SIN-MEL.

PS. What is the 'correct' equipment for QR, and have they ordered it yet?


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3314 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3233 times:

add to that list...

GF : EUROPE-BAH-SIN-SYD
EK: EUROPE-DXB-BKK-SYD
BA/QF : EUROPE-LHR/FRA-SIN/BKK-SYD/MEL
OS: EUROPE-VIE-KUL-SYD


User currently offlineIakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3312 posts, RR: 35
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3197 times:

A friend, a specialist of the local travel industry, happened to tell me about this tonight.
Unless there is something we are not aware of, we concluded that the six weekly A320 flights would see anything from 0 to 30 pax.

QF hired local personel just weeks ago.

Note: if Melbourne hosts more than 700,000 Greeks it would be the second Greek city, Thessaloniki has just over 650,000 (official figures from the 2000 census).


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3314 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3191 times:

Quoting Iakobos (Reply 23):
A friend, a specialist of the local travel industry, happened to tell me about this tonight.
Unless there is something we are not aware of, we concluded that the six weekly A320 flights would see anything from 0 to 30 pax.

QF hired local personel just weeks ago.

Note: if Melbourne hosts more than 700,000 Greeks it would be the second Greek city, Thessaloniki has just over 650,000 (official figures from the 2000 census).

Iakobos - I would have to agree with your freidn. with no connections to Australia, I cant see QR sustaining 6 flights per week!

Numerous internet sources have confirmed that melbourne has the third largest Greek population in the world, so perhaps the figure is 600,000, not 700,000.

http://melbourne.citysearch.com.au/feature/66/4.html
"With the third largest population of Greeks in the world, (outside of Athens and Thessaloniki)"

Either way, it will be interesting to monitor QR. Until the Australian market is served, I think Greeks will get some outsstanding fares with QR to Bangkok-Singapore etc etc.... perhaps they'll be giving seats away!


25 AirMale : Why only look at the australian market??? QR will be able to offer convenient connections from ATH via DOH to JNB/CPT (quite a few ethnic greeks live
26 Chinaeastern : it wouldn't be difficult to fillup a flight for QR but whether they can make money out of it is another story. i mean that it's still quite convenient
27 ODAFZ : A very quick look at their timetable shows that QR will be able to offer the following connecting services from DOH (based on 4 flights a week) ATH-DO
28 AirMale : ODAFZ: you forgot Sunday connections to JNB/CPT: 1 QR 473 7 ATH DOH 1530 1930 0 CONNECT DOH 320 QR 580 7 DOH JNB 2130 0515+1 0 19JUN05 23OCT05 332 14:
29 Billy : The largest Asian market in ATH is the Philippino ship crew market. Both SQ and TG used to depend on this traffic for their ATH services.
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