DfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 850 posts, RR: 51 Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3188 times:
To my untrained observations, Song is primarily being used for vacation routes and those that must compete directly with an LCC. DFW is neither, though I somewhat thought DL might put a few Song routes here when they dehubbed.
B6 has called DFW "a low priority," and were not inticed by the incentive package offered by the airport. Albeit the incentive package had some major strings attached, B6 simply has other priorities.
The big show to watch in the DFW area is the Wright Ammendment battle to lift the DAL perimeter rule.
Lockheed1011 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 156 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3186 times:
I do not see it happen any time soon.
DL just pulled out of DFW, plus DFW is a corporate market. Song and Jetblue are looking more for the leisure market.
AA has a monopoly out of DFW, also Airtran is hitting hard DFW lately. WN flies to HOU. So..... I do not think that JetBlue, Song and Ted will be interested in a market that is not leisure oriented.
RwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3045 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3187 times:
I'm surprised Song hasn't started service to DFW. JFK, FLL, and MCO would all be great destinations. AA's serivce is horrible and DL left a huge void when closing the DFW hub. Plus DFW is in big need of more LCC service, and I'm sure there are still lots of SkyMiles members in the metroplex.
What should happen? Song should start flights now to DFW.
What probably will happen? JetBlue will announce JFK-DFW and then Song will follow suit.
Unfortunately, Song simply seems to be going after B6 and duplicating their routes, rather than starting new routes to head-off JetBlue before they get started. Look at the recent announcement of Song starting LAX, SFO, SEA - all current B6 markets.
I think JFK-DFW on B6 will come in maybe 2006 and then Song will follow (surprise) and then maybe a DFW-LGB for B6 and/or a DFW-MIA(B6 is still thinking)/MCO (FLL is maxed out so that is not an option anymore). Song maybe can pick up DFW-ATL, they can have their own route and not have to copy jetBlue.
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6692 posts, RR: 18 Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3066 times:
So a good question still remains.. when DL announced their transformation, they stated SONG would be starting 35 new routes (not necessarily new destinations).. Their latter announcement was the addition of 12 new routes.. so where are the other 23??? Is there going to be new Song stations opening up?
JetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3 Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3035 times:
So maybe DFW is one of them and they might have service to 2 or 3 cities (maybe), so that can be included in those other 23.
Someone should set up a thread about what they think those song routes will be.
Maybe B6 can have OAK-DFW along with the other guesses I stated)JFK,LGB,MIA,MCO). The only thing is they might only pick one or 2 of those cities b/c AA will definitely fight back. Maybe when the DAL Wright Amendment is lifted they can start service from JFK-DAL b/c WN isn't going to NYC area so they can get that market, but AA might still fight back b/c it is still NY-Dallas
Padcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3015 times:
I don't recall that press release. They're were 12 additional aircraft on top of the 36 which they will use primarily on longer Transcon routes giving them around 35 more flights. Raising the total from 141 to 176 flights per day.
DeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 18 Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2922 times:
Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 12): Meaning that B6 could enter DFW and Song will follow suit. What a mess that would be!!!!!
There is no way Song operates DFW-JFK. DL couldn't even fill the flights when it alternated between a 72S/M88/CR7. B6 can have that route. If Song came to DFW it would be to attract the leisure traveler going to MCO/FLL/TPA.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
B4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2602 posts, RR: 6 Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2891 times:
I could see song run DFW-FLL/MCO, especially if they ever introduce any 738 to the song fleet (integrating shuttle product to song, and using throughout system - totally speculatory). DL's priority has been to make DFW a profitable station from the loss pit that it was recently.
I guess the DL Connection routes are what did DFW in, I've had mainline flights on DL from DFW to SLC/CVG/ATL/LAX/SFO/FLL and they were always full.
ScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6441 posts, RR: 33 Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2798 times:
My thinking about DFW and Song was that it would have been an interesting possibility to maintain presence at DFW on the heavier, longer-haul routes. DFW to BOS, LGA, PHL, DCA, FLL, MCO, TPA, PBI, LAX, SFO, SAN, SEA, LAS, and PHX would have been good routes, taking advantage of the existing Delta frequent flyer base. However, I suspect that AA's response to a significant Song presence at DFW would not have been pretty, and the Song 757's might have been a bit too large for many of the routes.
Jkudall From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 615 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2729 times:
The thing is, DL did used to operate DFW-TPA,MCO,FLL, etc. and stopped for a reason. I think they have made it pretty clear about what their future will be like in DFW. They have no plans to restart these routes anytime soon and if they did it would probably be more along the lines of DL Connection.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11899 posts, RR: 52 Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2750 times:
First, I think that DL is waiting to see what is going to happen to US and maybe UA, too, before they really decide to put Song into DFW. Jet Blue, currently has no interest in DFW. But, if they did, they could fly their A-320 with cargo from LGA to the west coast with a stop at DFW.
But, some interesting things have been going on at the 4 remaining DL gates at DFW's Terminal E in the past week. Prior to this past week, DL has been flying B-738s and MD-88/90s at DFW. Last Sunday morning, they used a Song B-752 on their DFW-CVG flight, Tuesday they had a DL B-763 flying their ALT, DFW, SLT, DFW, ALT route. DL has also been using some DL B-752s and B-763s on some routes, too. Someone in my office told me there were other Song B-752 here as well.
No, these were not additional flights for DFW. These were replacement aircraft as fewer B-738s, MD-88s, and MD-90s that have been here. As you can see, the replacements are larger aircraft, with more seats.
DL's load factors to and from DFW have been very high this past week. But the only DL direct destinations you can currently fly from DFW is to the DL hubs at ALT, CVG, and SLT. From those airports you can go anywhere in the DL system.
But, if Song were to start flying to/from DFW, I would think they would not go to the NYC airports, right away and compete head to head against AA. Maybe they should fly to BWI, MDW, DEN, SEA, BOS, ALT, MIA, PHL, PIT, PDV, MHT, ALB, DET, MSP, LAX, SAN, & SFO/OAK.
But, the incentive that DFW is offering to attract some airline to fill the Terminal E gates, is not as good as a first look will imply. The new carrier has to bring in 10-20 new destinations out of DFW (that someone currently at DFW does not fly to). That is going to be difficult. That pretty much will take any thoughts of TZ filling those gates out of the picture. WN will veto that move.
DeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 18 Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2711 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 20): No, these were not additional flights for DFW. These were replacement aircraft as fewer B-738s, MD-88s, and MD-90s that have been here. As you can see, the replacements are larger aircraft, with more seats.
DL presently serves DFW with 757's and 767's. Presently 6 of the ATL flights are operated with one of aforementioned aircraft.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
Lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11901 posts, RR: 100 Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2554 times:
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 1): B6 has called DFW "a low priority," and were not inticed by the incentive package offered by the airport.
There are a lot more routes that would be profitable before DFW for B6. The "allergic" reaction of AA would make it a tough market to make a dollar in. B6 would do better to divert traffic from DFW/DAL by setting up in AUS or to enter markets with little direct competition to JFK (SAT). In other words, I'm agreeing with JetBlueatJFK.
As to song at DFW, if that were going to happen, it would have occurred BEFORE DL pulled out.
As a B6 stockholder, I expect them to select new market on profit (short and long term, which are NOT the always the same thing) and future strategy. (e.g., expansion to other existing markets or to launch service to another planned market). I just do not see DFW being a smart idea for years. There are just too many underserved markets available right now. Yes, many will only be "smart" to enter with the E190; there have been plenty of threads speculating where the E-jets will end up!
F9fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 693 posts, RR: 3 Reply 25, posted (8 years 8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2084 times:
Well, if MIA isn't a fortress hub for AA, why did they buy the naming rights for the basketball arena in downtown Miami like they did in Dallas, UA in Chicago, CO in Newark, or DL in Salt Lake City?
MIA is more of an international hub for AA that serves their Caribbean, Central American and Soutn American routes. With MIA being located where it is, this makes a lot of sense. Most discount carriers use FLL as their main airport in South Florida with FLL located within 30 miles of downtown Miami, and also the lower costs associated with operating at FLL. I suspect Broward County throws out incentives to airlines to lure them to their airport, too.