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B6 And Song To DFW  
User currently offlineAstrojet707 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 299 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3544 times:

What are your thoughts/opinions/comments on Song and/or JetBlue serving DFW in the near or not so near future?


AJ707

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 957 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

To my untrained observations, Song is primarily being used for vacation routes and those that must compete directly with an LCC. DFW is neither, though I somewhat thought DL might put a few Song routes here when they dehubbed.

B6 has called DFW "a low priority," and were not inticed by the incentive package offered by the airport. Albeit the incentive package had some major strings attached, B6 simply has other priorities.

The big show to watch in the DFW area is the Wright Ammendment battle to lift the DAL perimeter rule.


User currently offlineLockheed1011 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 156 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3478 times:

I do not see it happen any time soon.

DL just pulled out of DFW, plus DFW is a corporate market. Song and Jetblue are looking more for the leisure market.
AA has a monopoly out of DFW, also Airtran is hitting hard DFW lately. WN flies to HOU. So..... I do not think that JetBlue, Song and Ted will be interested in a market that is not leisure oriented.  Wink


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3076 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3479 times:

I'm surprised Song hasn't started service to DFW. JFK, FLL, and MCO would all be great destinations. AA's serivce is horrible and DL left a huge void when closing the DFW hub. Plus DFW is in big need of more LCC service, and I'm sure there are still lots of SkyMiles members in the metroplex.

What should happen? Song should start flights now to DFW.

What probably will happen? JetBlue will announce JFK-DFW and then Song will follow suit.

Unfortunately, Song simply seems to be going after B6 and duplicating their routes, rather than starting new routes to head-off JetBlue before they get started. Look at the recent announcement of Song starting LAX, SFO, SEA - all current B6 markets.  irked 


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26338 posts, RR: 76
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3463 times:

Quoting Lockheed1011 (Reply 2):
Song and Jetblue are looking more for the leisure market.

B6 has, since their start, targeted both business and leisure travelers

Quoting Lockheed1011 (Reply 2):
AA has a monopoly out of DFW, also Airtran is hitting hard DFW lately. WN flies to HOU.

What does HOU have to do with DFW except that they are both in Texas?



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3415 times:

Alot of may depend on how these JFK-SFO/LAX flights go. If they make good progress going up against carriers that offer premium service then it may happen. I would think MCO/FLL-DFW, not JFK-DFW.

User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3398 times:

Quoting Lockheed1011 (Reply 2):
WN flies to HOU

I think he means DAL.

I think JFK-DFW on B6 will come in maybe 2006 and then Song will follow (surprise) and then maybe a DFW-LGB for B6 and/or a DFW-MIA(B6 is still thinking)/MCO (FLL is maxed out so that is not an option anymore). Song maybe can pick up DFW-ATL, they can have their own route and not have to copy jetBlue.

 airplane  jetBlueAtJFK  airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3387 times:

Song would not enter JFK-DFW. AA is going to be the one to respond to JB in this case so why would DL want to be a part of that? AA will defend that route as they would no other.

User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3373 times:

Well, some DFW-JFK/FLL/LAX/MCO from Song would not be bad, as AA has a monopoly on some of this routes.


Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6748 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3358 times:

So a good question still remains.. when DL announced their transformation, they stated SONG would be starting 35 new routes (not necessarily new destinations).. Their latter announcement was the addition of 12 new routes.. so where are the other 23??? Is there going to be new Song stations opening up?


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3327 times:

So maybe DFW is one of them and they might have service to 2 or 3 cities (maybe), so that can be included in those other 23.

Someone should set up a thread about what they think those song routes will be.

Maybe B6 can have OAK-DFW along with the other guesses I stated)JFK,LGB,MIA,MCO). The only thing is they might only pick one or 2 of those cities b/c AA will definitely fight back. Maybe when the DAL Wright Amendment is lifted they can start service from JFK-DAL b/c WN isn't going to NYC area so they can get that market, but AA might still fight back b/c it is still NY-Dallas

 airplane  jetBlueAtJFK  airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3307 times:

I don't recall that press release. They're were 12 additional aircraft on top of the 36 which they will use primarily on longer Transcon routes giving them around 35 more flights. Raising the total from 141 to 176 flights per day.

User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3270 times:

I think that if B6 opens up MIA there could be an all out war with AA. Meaning that B6 could enter DFW and Song will follow suit. What a mess that would be!!!!!

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32575 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3212 times:

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 12):
I think that if B6 opens up MIA there could be an all out war with AA. Meaning that B6 could enter DFW and Song will follow suit. What a mess that would be!!!!!

It won't be a war. MIA is not a fortress hub.



a.
User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3214 times:

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 12):
Meaning that B6 could enter DFW and Song will follow suit. What a mess that would be!!!!!

There is no way Song operates DFW-JFK. DL couldn't even fill the flights when it alternated between a 72S/M88/CR7. B6 can have that route. If Song came to DFW it would be to attract the leisure traveler going to MCO/FLL/TPA.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2629 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3183 times:

I could see song run DFW-FLL/MCO, especially if they ever introduce any 738 to the song fleet (integrating shuttle product to song, and using throughout system - totally speculatory). DL's priority has been to make DFW a profitable station from the loss pit that it was recently.

I guess the DL Connection routes are what did DFW in, I've had mainline flights on DL from DFW to SLC/CVG/ATL/LAX/SFO/FLL and they were always full.



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineJBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3179 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3119 times:
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AUS and/or SAT will come looooooong before DFW ever does on the jetBlue route network.

JBLU


User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3118 times:

Oh yea I forgot about SAT and AUS. Definetelt before DFW. It was discussed a while back and it seems right for B6.

 airplane  jetBlueAtJFK  airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently onlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6696 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3090 times:

My thinking about DFW and Song was that it would have been an interesting possibility to maintain presence at DFW on the heavier, longer-haul routes. DFW to BOS, LGA, PHL, DCA, FLL, MCO, TPA, PBI, LAX, SFO, SAN, SEA, LAS, and PHX would have been good routes, taking advantage of the existing Delta frequent flyer base. However, I suspect that AA's response to a significant Song presence at DFW would not have been pretty, and the Song 757's might have been a bit too large for many of the routes.

User currently offlineJkudall From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3021 times:

The thing is, DL did used to operate DFW-TPA,MCO,FLL, etc. and stopped for a reason. I think they have made it pretty clear about what their future will be like in DFW. They have no plans to restart these routes anytime soon and if they did it would probably be more along the lines of DL Connection.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3042 times:

First, I think that DL is waiting to see what is going to happen to US and maybe UA, too, before they really decide to put Song into DFW. Jet Blue, currently has no interest in DFW. But, if they did, they could fly their A-320 with cargo from LGA to the west coast with a stop at DFW.

But, some interesting things have been going on at the 4 remaining DL gates at DFW's Terminal E in the past week. Prior to this past week, DL has been flying B-738s and MD-88/90s at DFW. Last Sunday morning, they used a Song B-752 on their DFW-CVG flight, Tuesday they had a DL B-763 flying their ALT, DFW, SLT, DFW, ALT route. DL has also been using some DL B-752s and B-763s on some routes, too. Someone in my office told me there were other Song B-752 here as well.

No, these were not additional flights for DFW. These were replacement aircraft as fewer B-738s, MD-88s, and MD-90s that have been here. As you can see, the replacements are larger aircraft, with more seats.
DL's load factors to and from DFW have been very high this past week. But the only DL direct destinations you can currently fly from DFW is to the DL hubs at ALT, CVG, and SLT. From those airports you can go anywhere in the DL system.

But, if Song were to start flying to/from DFW, I would think they would not go to the NYC airports, right away and compete head to head against AA. Maybe they should fly to BWI, MDW, DEN, SEA, BOS, ALT, MIA, PHL, PIT, PDV, MHT, ALB, DET, MSP, LAX, SAN, & SFO/OAK.

But, the incentive that DFW is offering to attract some airline to fill the Terminal E gates, is not as good as a first look will imply. The new carrier has to bring in 10-20 new destinations out of DFW (that someone currently at DFW does not fly to). That is going to be difficult. That pretty much will take any thoughts of TZ filling those gates out of the picture. WN will veto that move.


User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3003 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 20):
No, these were not additional flights for DFW. These were replacement aircraft as fewer B-738s, MD-88s, and MD-90s that have been here. As you can see, the replacements are larger aircraft, with more seats.

DL presently serves DFW with 757's and 767's. Presently 6 of the ATL flights are operated with one of aforementioned aircraft.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineJkudall From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2963 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 20):
ALT, CVG, and SLT

I am assuming you meant ATL and SLC.

As for loads being high recently to DFW, they have been high to pretty much everywhere during spring break.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12784 posts, RR: 100
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2846 times:
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Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 1):
B6 has called DFW "a low priority," and were not inticed by the incentive package offered by the airport.

There are a lot more routes that would be profitable before DFW for B6. The "allergic" reaction of AA would make it a tough market to make a dollar in. B6 would do better to divert traffic from DFW/DAL by setting up in AUS or to enter markets with little direct competition to JFK (SAT). In other words, I'm agreeing with JetBlueatJFK.

As to song at DFW, if that were going to happen, it would have occurred BEFORE DL pulled out.

As a B6 stockholder, I expect them to select new market on profit (short and long term, which are NOT the always the same thing) and future strategy. (e.g., expansion to other existing markets or to launch service to another planned market). I just do not see DFW being a smart idea for years. There are just too many underserved markets available right now. Yes, many will only be "smart" to enter with the E190; there have been plenty of threads speculating where the E-jets will end up!  bigthumbsup 

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineIcebird757 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 661 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2576 times:

You will probably see us(B6) go to AUS before DFW.


LGB....where you can watch the grass grow because the traffic is so slow.
User currently offlineF9fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 696 posts, RR: 3
Reply 25, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2376 times:

Well, if MIA isn't a fortress hub for AA, why did they buy the naming rights for the basketball arena in downtown Miami like they did in Dallas, UA in Chicago, CO in Newark, or DL in Salt Lake City?

MIA is more of an international hub for AA that serves their Caribbean, Central American and Soutn American routes. With MIA being located where it is, this makes a lot of sense. Most discount carriers use FLL as their main airport in South Florida with FLL located within 30 miles of downtown Miami, and also the lower costs associated with operating at FLL. I suspect Broward County throws out incentives to airlines to lure them to their airport, too.

F9Fan


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