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Finnair To Get 7th MD-11  
User currently offlineKilljoy From Finland, joined Dec 1999, 646 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8189 times:

Finnair will apparently require even more capacity for their Asian operations, and are negotiating the acquisition of a seventh McDonnell Douglas MD-11.

In other news, the MD-80 will be decommissioned earlier than expected, to be replaced by a combination of existing A320 and new E170 aircraft.

[Edited 2005-04-11 16:20:55]

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8143 times:

Great news about the addition of another MD11. Finnair certainly love their trijets and look like staying with the MD 11 for the forseable future!

User currently offlineTavve From Sweden, joined Sep 2003, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8102 times:

Quoting Killjoy (Thread starter):
In other news, the MD-80 will be decommissioned earlier than expected, to be replaced by a combination of existing A320 and new E170 aircraft.

I wish SK was doing the same thing.



GOT, that's where I live
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20487 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8086 times:

Also from the linked press release:
In winter 2005-06 the new aircraft will replace other aircraft withdrawn for maintenance connected with the refurbishment of the long-haul fleet's business class cabins. The additional capacity will be available for use from spring 2006.

Good to see that not only is Finnair continuing to acquire MD-11's, but refurbishing the existing fleet. Seems like they plan on keeping them for a while.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1790 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8078 times:

Finnair is currently flying twice a day to China as well as once a day
to Bangkok and Japan. This autumn a new destination will open, to
Guangzhou in China.



Why is there so much demand for Finland -China flights? Is there a large Chinese diaspora in Finland?



Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8053 times:

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 4):
Why is there so much demand for Finland -China flights? Is there a large Chinese diaspora in Finland?

No, but Finnair have made themselves a nice little niche for Europe-Asia flights (particularly from Scandinavia and northern Europe). Many of the passengers on these flights will have connected at HEL rather than just originated there.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3769 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8008 times:

Cornish is right. Flying from HEL to Asia cuts about 2 or 3 hrs compared to LHR or CDG. So people prefer shorter flights... Nevermind that flying from LHR to HEL takes 3 hrs...

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineKilljoy From Finland, joined Dec 1999, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7993 times:

Quoting Doona (Reply 6):
Cornish is right. Flying from HEL to Asia cuts about 2 or 3 hrs compared to LHR or CDG. So people prefer shorter flights... Nevermind that flying from LHR to HEL takes 3 hrs...

Connecting at HEL is also much less painful  Wink .


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32691 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 7801 times:

Great news, they need this. Finnair was having problems finding a way to operate to Miami next winter with only six aircraft and the increased flying to Asia, such as Guangzhou. The new MD11 will help solve this problem.


a.
User currently offlineDeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 7783 times:

Where will they get the MD-11 from? from McDonnell Douglas?  Smile


~DeltaWings



Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
User currently offlinePersotvik From Norway, joined Nov 1999, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7686 times:

Hi Smile

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 9):
Where will they get the MD-11 from? from McDonnell Douglas?

I know DL has a couple stored as well as one with engineproblems. McDonnel Douglas/Boeing also have some examples, returned from Swiss. I don't know their status.



Just love flying
User currently offlineOHLBU From Finland, joined Jan 2005, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7547 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
Finnair was having problems finding a way to operate to Miami next winter

Currently Finnair is not selling MIA for next winter, I believe this winter´s flights were unprofitable for the airline. Loads were quite low and as there is no business-class it´s hard to make a profit with half-full economy cabin.

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 9):
Where will they get the MD-11 from? from McDonnell Douglas?

This is the million dollar question. A great portion of MD11 airframes have been converted to freighters. To find a CF6-powered example with a common cabin layout to either of Finnair´s must be quite hard. I wonder if KLM would be interested in selling/leasing one? What other carriers still operate passenger MD11s with CF6s?


User currently offlineMatt27 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7470 times:

Good news for Finnair. Their MD-11s and the KLM MD-11s are among the best looking a/c in the world! So, how many Asian-routes do Finnair have??

User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7464 times:

Thai has some GE powered MD-11's, that they might want to get rid of in the near future to reduce types in the fleet. KL could possible lease out one of the MD-11's to Finnair. Varig has some too in the fleet, however IM not sure if they would get rid of em.

Drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7442 times:

Quoting Matt27 (Reply 12):
how many Asian-routes do Finnair have??

well they fly from Helsinki to:

Tokyo
Peking
Shanghai
Hongkong
Guangzhou (starts 9/4/2005)
Bangkok
Singapore

Drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlinePersotvik From Norway, joined Nov 1999, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7429 times:

TG have decided to keep their 4 MD11's for regional operations as far as I know from another sorce here.


Just love flying
User currently offlineOHLBU From Finland, joined Jan 2005, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7415 times:

Quoting KL808 (Reply 14):
well they fly from Helsinki to:

Tokyo
Peking
Shanghai
Hongkong
Guangzhou (starts 9/4/2005)
Bangkok
Singapore

Plus Osaka 5x week. Hong Kong is a direct service 3x week during summer and BKK/SIN is daily.


User currently offlineOHLBU From Finland, joined Jan 2005, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7396 times:

Quoting KL808 (Reply 13):
Varig has some too in the fleet, however IM not sure if they would get rid of em.

I believe Varig has just added some ex-Swiss MD11s to their fleet so that would suggest they also plan to keep their current examples. How about DL/AA and their MD11s? Are they in storage and which engines did they have?


User currently offlineGodBless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2752 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7359 times:

Quoting Tavve (Reply 2):
Quoting Killjoy (Thread starter):
In other news, the MD-80 will be decommissioned earlier than expected, to be replaced by a combination of existing A320 and new E170 aircraft.

I wish SK was doing the same thing.

I just hope that SK keeps to the slow paste of removing the MD80's. Once all the MD-80's are gone it will be quite boring with only 737's and A320's left plus all those RJ's...

I am always amazed how AY manages to serve a niche market and then use such a large a/c type. A 767 or A330 seems to make more sense, but it's good if they have success with their MD-11 fleet.

Max


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12428 posts, RR: 37
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7251 times:

Good for them; is Guangzhou direct or via BKK? (Now that HKG is nonstop, I guess they could substitute CAN for this?)

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32691 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7251 times:

Quoting OHLBU (Reply 11):
Currently Finnair is not selling MIA for next winter, I believe this winter´s flights were unprofitable for the airline. Loads were quite low and as there is no business-class it´s hard to make a profit with half-full economy cabin.

They haven't put them into the schedule because they have some aircraft scheduling conflicts. They do plan on flying to Miami next winter, again between December and April, 3x a week, though it may be only twice because of aircraft availability.

Loads were definitley not low...they averaged over 90%, with more than half the seats sold by the end of summer 2004, which is why they added a third frequency on Mondays. The service is indeed profitable. Clearly not as profitable as their Asian flights, but it makes money. It definitley does not get priority though, Asian flights do, rightfully so.



a.
User currently offlineKilljoy From Finland, joined Dec 1999, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7249 times:

Quoting GodBless (Reply 18):
A 767 or A330 seems to make more sense

The decision to forego a clearly superior Boeing product was mostly due to political pressure from the California state government, plus the fact that McDonnell Douglas was selling the aircraft at a loss, as witnessed by their subsequent collapse.

Seriously though, the MD-11 can carry a lot more freight.


User currently offlineAirzim From Zimbabwe, joined Jun 2001, 1202 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7115 times:

Plus they fly to New York with the MD-11 either 6 or 7 days a week depending on the time of year.

User currently offlineOHLBU From Finland, joined Jan 2005, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7044 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
The service is indeed profitable

I seriously doubt this. Like with the BKK-route a great portion of seats on MIA was sold through tour operators, which is charity-work on scheduled flights. Just look at the prices, it´s the premium class passenger who brings in the money and none of those were on MIA flights. The business-class seats were offered with economy service for full-fare economy pax but there were few takers.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 19):
is Guangzhou direct or via BKK?

CAN will be direct. From September HKG will again be an extension of the BKK service 3x week.

Quoting GodBless (Reply 18):
I am always amazed how AY manages to serve a niche market and then use such a large a/c type. A 767 or A330 seems to make more sense, but it's good if they have success with their MD-11 fleet.

It´s the same thing that SQ and EK among others are doing, albeit on a much smaller scale. Great circle route makes HEL an ideal transfer point between Japan/China and the rest of Europe. And the small size of Helsinki-Vantaa airport makes a 40min transfer a reality. Finnair has adapted its route network to suite the size of the MD11, not the other way around. On the passenger side HEL-BKK-HEL would be unprofitable but cargo revenue makes the route feasible.


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7021 times:

I thought Finnair had one MD11 in a high density configuration for charter flights? If this is no longer the case what aircraft do they use for those winter flights to Las Palmas because they need a big plane for that.

Finns love Gran Canaria in winter!


25 Wjcandee : Maybe they can wet-lease one from World.
26 Post contains images TPASXM787 : I know it makes sense for their fleet, just not a great aircraft in general.
27 UpperDeck79 : They reconfigured that bird a long ago to fly the Asian routes. Charter flights to Canaries and elsewhere are flown with charter-configured 757's (an
28 Orion737 : Big drop in capacity then. The charter configured MD11 was very useful for winter flights to Las Palmas, surely Finns fave holiday place!
29 UpperDeck79 : True. They still sometimes use normally configured MD11 on leisure flights to Malaga and scheduled flights to Finnish Lapland during high ski season.
30 Post contains images Matt27 : KL808 and OHLBU, thanks for the info.
31 NWA1978 : Maybe Boeing will fire the md11 line back up to take the place of the 717. Then again, maybe not! I look back to when they closed the line down and al
32 Post contains links and images Persotvik : At www.flytorget.se you can read about this in swedish. AY are in negotiations with RG regarding one more MD11
33 PanAmDC10 : Good for them. I hope they can rescue some of them from desert storage.
34 Post contains images Lockheed1011 : Great! Beautiful Birds, love those trijet.........................
35 Glennpower : RG have 5 x swissair MD11s,and believe me they are in a pitiful state just like there new owners,(I have flown two round trips in First,quite a few in
36 9V-SVC : I really hope they install PTVs on the MD-11s , this will definately help pass time during long haul flights.
37 HB-IWC : Finnair's 6th MD11, OH-LGF, which was added last year, was an ex-Citybird/Sabena-operated airframe. As far as I know, it was the last passenger MD11 e
38 Bennett123 : My records show OO-CTB OH-LGF Finnair OO-CTC OH-LGE Finnair OO-CTS N279WA World Airways
39 N1120A : Well, first, the MD-11 is similar in size to the A333/A343/772. Also, it flies much farther than any 767 or A330 can, which makes it much more attrac
40 Orion737 : Someone said the MD11 shows its age! Well the very oldest muest be only about 14 years old with the majority much younger than that. That isnt old at
41 Eilennaei : The new MD-11(s) probably would have to be fitted with new style cabin insulation blankets like the rest of the AY MD-11 fleet. Will keep people busy,
42 UpperDeck79 : I'd love to see them fly to BOM (Mumbay/Bombay) or MAA (Chennai/Madras) as they were hinting about India. ICN (Seoul) would be awesome, too, though.
43 Post contains images Duke : Aaah, music to my ears. That's one less MD-11 that will be a freighter for the time being. Way to go, Finnair. At least SOMEBODY likes this beautiful
44 MAH4546 : Finnair will indeed fly to Miami next winter. Unfortunately, due to lack of MD11s (they will still only have 6 MD11s in service next winter, since the
45 UpperDeck79 : I couldn't find the flight from AY website... But it may well be bookable from a tour operator already, true.
46 MAH4546 : It is there and bookable on finnair.com and public reservation systems: AY 2981 HEL 0555-1140 MIA 752 via YHZ AY 2982 MIA 1240-0740 HEL 752 via YHZ
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