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UK And India To Further Increase Flights  
User currently offlineAirish From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 259 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3498 times:

This article says the UK and India going to further increase flights from 40 to 84

http://www.reuters.com/locales/c_new...ws&localeKey=en_IN&storyID=8168700


Worlds Only Reputable Airline Air India! Some Of The Least: BA, Jet (9w), Kingfisher!
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHimmat01 From India, joined Dec 2004, 1047 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3473 times:

Why can't India and UK go for an open sky agreement like the one between India and the US?


An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3443 times:

Quoting Himmat01 (Reply 1):
Why can't India and UK go for an open sky agreement like the one between India and the US?

Unfortunately, the UK and pretty much any other country will struggle to sign open skies agreements because of the capacity constraints seen at the primary UK airports. The dominance of the UK carriers at those airports create an imbalance that is incompatible with open skies.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3313 times:

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 2):
Why can't India and UK go for an open sky agreement like the one between India and the US?

The UK (indeed, any country) should avoid an open skies treaty with any country whose primary carriers remain government-owned. Air-India (and Indian Airlines) do not have the same bottom-line focus as do privately-owned carriers (BA, VS, BMI, Jet Airways) and hence are more apt to add capacity unnecessarily and unprofitably, potentially hurting all players. The UK should only consider open skies with India once Air-India and Indian Airlines are privatized.

As for the recent open skies agreement with the US, the longer distances between India and the US (requiring 744/345/772LR ideally) reduces the likelihood of a free-for-all with too many carriers adding too much capacity at once in the event of open skies, as compared to a possible UK-India open skies.

Of course as Sean said, primary UK airports do face capacity constraints although a free-for-all with too many additional new flights cannot be ruled out. Government-owned carriers such as Air-India and Indian Airlines cannot be counted on to act as rationally in a free market as can profit-motivated carriers.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

Just got an overview of some of the details from a source. I can't believe that the Ministry thinks they can actually get away with some of this stuff. It's sad when even some members of the UK delegation now refer to Praful Patel and Ajay Prasad as the "Ministry of Jet Airways".

Five years from now we will look back at 13 April 2005 and recognize it as the day Air India's death was sealed.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3241 times:

Five years from now we will look back at 13 April 2005 and recognize it as the day Air India's death was sealed.

Good.

The GOI has no business running the service economy. They've done a horrible job of it, be it airlines, or hotels. AI has been a political football for all sorts of horrendous politicians for years now. They can go kick something else for a change - like themselves.

As someone whose first flight on a 747 was on one of AI's amazing Palaces in the Sky and who views the airline fondly to the extent that I still patronize it with my travel dollars, it has been sad to see AI wither away, although for the last year it appeared that it was on its way to a partial recovery.


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4769 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3238 times:

Roy aka Indianguy must be jumping with joy right now  Wink

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3215 times:

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 4):
Five years from now we will look back at 13 April 2005 and recognize it as the day Air India's death was sealed.

Would that be such as a bad thing? Surely the dynamic, profit-oriented, and efficient management of Jet Airways, Air Sahara et al can manage the scarce Indian international route authorities more profitably than Air-India and Indian Airlines. Indians can only benefit from a reduced, marginalized or even liquidated Air-India in the long haul, if not at least a privatized Air-India.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2046 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3187 times:

the whole scenario looks contradictory. If AI is on its deathbed, then why buy planes for it at all. Let this be an example of "euthanasia" of airlines.
rgds
Aseem



ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
User currently offlineStealthpilot From India, joined May 2004, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3152 times:

Quoting Aseem, reply 8 "If AI is on its deathbed, then why buy planes for it at all."

If things remain the same at AI they will slowly get hammered. On one hand I think that Air India’s decision to buy those planes was long overdue, on the other hand im angry that they are using my tax money (or will use it  Smile)
If AI completely revamps itself, and somehow gets independent management / privatizes / whatever only then will it do well. If it continues to be run the way it is I really really hope they fold up sooner rather than later, because it definitely will happen.
On its present course AIs future is bleak, and I hope the government stops pumping money into it and lets go!

-Nikhil



eP007
User currently offlineShawnnyc From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3152 times:

The Hindu is saying that Indian carriers will get unlimited flights from India to the UK outside of BOM and DEL to LHR. Is this true? If so I think it is an interesting tradeoff for offering such a large increase in UK - India flights. Hopefully Indian carriers will open flights from secondary Indian cities to London and from BOM/DEL to smaller UK cities. With the US - India open skies, Indian carriers could now really be players US - UK - India routes (agreed Indian aviation has never really risen to the occasion, but this time it looks like it could happen).

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...04/14/stories/2005041401680300.htm


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3120 times:

Indians can only benefit from a reduced, marginalized or even liquidated Air-India in the long haul, if not at least a privatized Air-India.

Undoubtedly.
And the scarce tax rupees of the 2% of beleagured Indians who pay income taxes can go towards other much needed projects instead of running airlines and the like.
The private carriers can raise funds in the marketplace, compete effectively, and be run as efficient profit oriented carriers, something that AI and IC had no incentive to do.


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3109 times:

Quoting Aseem (Reply 8):
the whole scenario looks contradictory. If AI is on its deathbed, then why buy planes for it at all. L

Because the IAS people et al in the Ministry have no idea about aviation management etc

Sad, sad, sad


User currently offlineCOKLHR From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2957 times:

I personally can't see Air India dying in 5 years. A hell of a lot of people still travel on it even today. The only way forward for Air India is privatisation and that process will finally start next year (hopefully). If that doesn't happen then Air India is doomed.

User currently offlineSshank From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2887 times:

Just got an overview of some of the details from a source. I can't believe that the Ministry thinks they can actually get away with some of this stuff. It's sad when even some members of the UK delegation now refer to Praful Patel and Ajay Prasad as the "Ministry of Jet Airways".

Five years from now we will look back at 13 April 2005 and recognize it as the day Air India's death was sealed.


Sean - what in particular do you find so objectionable here? Granted a lot of things here look tailor made for Jet - and AI is set to see some competition from an Indian carrier for the first time. But is that such a bad thing? Bad for AI maybe - but that's not necessarily bad for India (and the passengers).


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2800 times:

Quoting Sshank (Reply 14):

Sean - what in particular do you find so objectionable here?

My apologies to the forum, Praful Patel and Ajay Prasad. The initial overview I received via a text message from a source was misleading and I jumped to conclusions that I should not have. Now that I have a copy of the entire document in front of me, I do not believe that there is anythign objectionable in the MoU


User currently offlineCOKLHR From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2774 times:

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/businessline/blnus/14151708.htm

I think Air India has to be privatized to compete with the more nimble private airlines in India today and other international airlines. Maybe the break of Air India's monopoly over international routes will help the airline to actually be privatized considering the political resistance to this in the past.


User currently offlineTKMCE From India, joined May 2002, 841 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2716 times:

Here is the official MOU taken from DGCA India


http://www.dgca.nic.in/bilateral/MoU_UK_0405.pdf


User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2663 times:

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 15):
I do not believe that there is anythign objectionable in the MoU

Other than the inablity to differentiate between minimum and maximum ? Big grin (cf. part 7 (i) ).



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
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