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JFK Terminal 5  
User currently offlineQantas83 From Australia, joined Apr 2005, 10 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3430 times:

G'day everyone,

I was wondering what was going to happen to the old TWA terminal at JFK? It's been empty for a while. I've seen Jetblue park the odd A-320 there, but nothing else/ Any ideas?
Cheers,
Qantas83

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1596 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3401 times:

One of the reasons why JetBlue is the best airline in the US. They care!



http://www.atwonline.com/channels/ro...rports/article.html?articleID=1191


JetBlue's new JFK terminal project will revive an architectural treasure

Looking like a tiny abstract sculpture in the midst of the giant terminals of 21st century John F. Kennedy International Airport, architect Eero Saarinen's 1961 TWA World Flight Center sits empty on what Richard Smyth, JetBlue Airways' VP-JFK redevelopment, calls "the best ramp on the airport."

Now a new life for the curvaceous white building is in sight. In 2008 it is to reopen as a check-in point for JetBlue passengers along with some other, aviation-compatible uses. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns it, is seeking proposals from developers interested in using it. JetBlue-JFK's largest operator, moving about 8 million passengers through the airport annually-is outgrowing its space in Terminal 6 next door to the old TWA building. It will build a completely new facility behind and connected to the TWA landmark, designated T-5, and move all its operations there.

Flying nearly 100 trips a day from its home airport, JetBlue uses all 13 gates on T-6. When the LCC started JFK service in February 2000, it used one gate in the terminal, which was occupied by United Airlines. Then United moved into T-7, the British Airways building, and JetBlue took over all of T-6.

T-5 was the first airport terminal designed by the Finnish architect, who later created the Pan Am building at JFK and the Washington Dulles terminal. It has been called "an art form in itself" and "an icon of modernist architecture." But the main building and its two satellites, with 1960s-size spaces, soon were overwhelmed by growing traffic and TWA spilled over into T-6. T-5 has been closed since TWA shut down in 2001.

Seeking a new use for the building, the port authority had to satisfy not only FAA, which must approve the environmental aspects of the plan, but also the New York Historical Preservation Office and the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation. JetBlue, outgrowing its T-6 space, was interested even though "the landside of that building is a problem, with a funnel-shaped entrance. It's very small and it's officially a landmark building, which means no major changes can be made," Smyth points out. Still, the 72-acre site and large ramp make it very attractive, he adds.

Since late 2002, recalls Regine Weston, principal in the Weston-Wong consulting firm of Toronto, "there have been various schemes" to use the building. The final plan "came up in a brainstorming meeting" with the port authority, designers, JetBlue and representatives of preservation groups. At the time, Weston was with Arup, an international aviation consultancy, and she is still part of the Arup team working on the project. Arup created the basic plan, Gensler is the architect and DMJM+Harris is designing operational facilities for the new terminal.

Key to the plan is moving the terminal roadway around the back of the landmark building and double-decking this section of the roadway to link with the dual levels of JFK's terminal loop. Smyth says TWA originated this idea in the late 1980s or early 1990s when it was planning to redevelop the Saarinen building and the newer adjacent terminal. Then TWA decided to build a new terminal behind the old T-5, an idea that interested American Airlines after it bought TWA, according to Smyth. He adds that "at one time" United Airlines was considering it when it was operating in T-6. That's when JetBlue stepped in. He explains that if UAL had gone ahead with the project, JetBlue, as its tenant in T-6, would have had part of the new terminal. So when United dropped the project in 2002, JetBlue took it over.

"This is the only real practical space on the airport to do something as large as this," Smyth says. The new terminal will have 26 gates with an addition with 8-10 gates possible. The front of the building will follow the curve of the roadway, with an angled concourse behind it. The ramp is big enough to permit dual taxiways, giving JetBlue a far more efficient operation than is possible at most of JFK's terminals. There even will be room at the back of the ramp for 8-10 hardstands, although the airline does not plan to use these for passenger operations. The two TWA satellites will be removed, but at least one of the connectors will remain and be equipped with moving walkways for those who prefer to check in there.

Weston notes that for passengers who park in parts of the lower level of the new garage that will be built as part of the project, it will be faster and easier to walk across the road and check in at the TWA building than to use the connector corridor to the JetBlue terminal. For passengers using the new 640,000-sq.-ft. terminal, JetBlue will provide a skybridge with moving walkways to the 1,500-space garage in the airport's inner circle. This bridge also will link the new terminal with JFK's AirTrain system that serves all the terminals and connects with local trains.

Inside the new JetBlue terminal will be a 20-lane security checkpoint and a very large retail and food and beverage complex on the secure side. Ten scanning machines will be integrated into baggage makeup. Arriving passengers will have six oversize bag claim devices on the lower level. They will exit bag claim onto a roadway sheltered by the front of the upper story of the terminal. Smyth puts total cost of the project "in the $750 million range." The port authority will finance most of this with bonds, which JetBlue will repay over a 30-year term. The lease it signed with PANYNJ last year is for 34 years, assuming a four-year construction period before the new facility can go into service.

The old TWA building will remain accessible by road to JetBlue passengers and the general public. By the middle of this year the port authority will issue a request for proposals for development of the landmark, with selection expected by year end. An earlier request for expressions of interest yielded more than 40 responses, PA spokesperson Pasquale DiFulco notes.

The RFP will require that the building stay open to the public and that space for JetBlue self-check kiosks be provided in the front of the lobby. Other uses for the building could include "airport support businesses, a world-class conference center, a world-class restaurant, aviation museum and retail," DiFulco suggests. The port authority will clean and restore the building, retaining the tiny white tiles that cover floors and walls. "We are committed to keeping the same materials and look," he promises.

Smyth says JetBlue itself may put in a proposal to develop the structure, although he does not mention specific uses beyond the check-in facilities. He adds, "We may use some of the elements of the old terminal in the d}cor of the new building."

JetBlue hopes to start work on the project this spring and begin operations in its new facility in three years. With the 26 gates it can go to 250 flights a day without using the hardstands, Smyth says. If it later needs more space, it could extend the concourse toward the area now occupied by T-6 for 8-10 gates. This Phase 2 addition could include federal inspection facilities if the carrier expands its international service. Now its flights from the Dominican Republic use T-4 and JFK's main FIS.

The new complex will give JetBlue the most modern and efficient facilities on the airport. At the same time, it will become the airline identified with the most famous building there. "The world has just one icon that truly epitomizes both New York City and the excitement of aviation and that's JFK's Terminal 5," CEO David Neeleman said when the agreement with the port authority was announced. "We eagerly await the day when Terminal 5 will become JetBlue's home too."



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3333 times:

Man ... I cant wait!

Aside from JFK, I saw pictures of the developments going on at Terminal C in BOS. Things are on their way and it is looking great!

I hope things get underway soon for T-5. Truly exciting!


User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3431 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3315 times:

I think it's great. But we have heard about it for two years now.

When's the shovel going in the ground?!?!

PJ


User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5652 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3160 times:

I really hope this happens, it'll be great to stroll through the old terminal. I miss it. (Although we'll never see Double Golden Globed L1011's dock there anymore, it'll still be a great sight)


Next trip: SLC-DEN-SLC-PHX-JFK-LAX-SLC with my wife and oldest daughter. F9 to and from DEN, US to JFK, AA 321 and CR7
User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

Can't wait for T5 to open up. jetBlue will grow much more with more flights to more places.
Are their any pics of TC at BOS online or were the pics at work.

 airplane  jetBlueAtJFK  airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5652 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3070 times:

Whats going on at Boston? Are they STILL under construction?


Next trip: SLC-DEN-SLC-PHX-JFK-LAX-SLC with my wife and oldest daughter. F9 to and from DEN, US to JFK, AA 321 and CR7
User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2939 times:

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 5):
Are their any pics of TC at BOS online or were the pics at work.



Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 6):
Whats going on at Boston? Are they STILL under construction?

yes [@ work only], and yes.

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 1):
If it later needs more space, it could extend the concourse toward the area now occupied by T-6 for 8-10 gates. This Phase 2 addition could include federal inspection facilities if the carrier expands its international service. Now its flights from the Dominican Republic use T-4 and JFK's main FIS.

YES! That would be awesome .. have a small amount of customs in-house so we wont be operating in two terminals!


User currently offlineJfr From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2857 times:

There are two main problems:

#1: The stunning TWA Terminal is very, very small.....a little jewel box. Any solution that puts a significant level traffic through it will be problematic.

#2: The Gensler team solution puts a terminal access road between the Saarinen building and the Jet Blue terminal. Security issues alone make this impossible to solve in a way passengers will accept and utilize. See......



User currently offlineUnitedfirst From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 478 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2753 times:

It used one gate in the terminal, which was occupied by United Airlines. Then United moved into T-7, the British Airways building, and JetBlue took over all of T-6.

I think it's worthwhile to note that United has always operated out of Terminal 7. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, they launched Terminal 7 together with British Airways back when they were partners in the late 1980s.

However, it continued to use Terminal 6 for its trans-continental operations from JFK to San Francisco & L.A, while all other United ops remained at Terminal 7. I'm not sure exactly when they moved all their ground service back to Terminal 7 from Terminal 6, but it must have been relatively recent, and surely had something to do with United scaling back its JFK operations, while jetBlue was rapidly expanding and needed new gates.

Derek


User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16856 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2714 times:

Quoting Unitedfirst (Reply 9):
I think it's worthwhile to note that United has always operated out of Terminal 7. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, they launched Terminal 7 together with British Airways back when they were partners in the late 1980s.

UAL in the Eighties through early nineties operated out of T-9.

Quoting Jfr (Reply 8):
: The stunning TWA Terminal is very, very small.....a little jewel box

Exactly, it's going to be hidden behind a parking garage. It's about the size of a large suburban McDonalds restaurant. Personally I think they are trying to do too much with too little, they should just cut the Terminal into a few pieces and reassemble it somewhere else at the airport and incorporate it into either a new airport hotel or a aviation museum.

At Newark Airport they took the original airline terminal, cut it into three pieces and moved it about 1/4 mile to a new location where it was reassembled and incorporated into a new airport administration building.

They should do the same at JFK with T-5 and the original Oval section of T-3, cut them up and move them over to another area of the airport and reassemble them and incorporate a aviation museum with a decent airport hotel. JFK has the shadiest airport hotels going, a nice Westin, Sheraton, Hyatt or Marriott are desperately needed.

Imagine a new Westin JFK Airport hotel with the T-3 World Port Oval as it's lobby, and or a museum.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
Exactly, it's going to be hidden behind a parking garage. It's about the size of a large suburban McDonalds restaurant. Personally I think they are trying to do too much with too little, they should just cut the Terminal into a few pieces and reassemble it somewhere else at the airport and incorporate it into either a new airport hotel or a aviation museum.

theyre hindered because its a historical landmark or something .. they cant [and wont] just up and move it. plus jetblue wants to use it .. keep it where it is.


User currently offlineJfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3431 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2583 times:

What are you guys talking about?

It isn't that small at all! Keep in mind that TWA used to send their 747s with 300+ seats out of that terminal for nearly 30 years.

You can't move it. And it won't be hidden. It's a jewel, and in New York City, we respect and preserve our crown jewels. This isn't Jersey and this isn't suburban sprawl America.

This is a historic terminal in a historic airport in a historic city. It will be handled as such.

PJ


User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16856 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2540 times:

Quoting Jfklganyc (Reply 12):
You can't move it. And it won't be hidden. It's a jewel, and in New York City, we respect and preserve our crown jewels. This isn't Jersey and this isn't suburban sprawl America.

Why dis New Jersey?..

Two words, Pennsylvania Station. Worst act of vandalism ever!

T-5 might be on a NYC preservation list, which by the way does not apply to Port Authority property. However EWR's building one is on the National Park Service's National Register of Historic Places, which carries a little more prestige.

http://www.cr.nps.gov/nr/travel/aviation/new.htm

.

[Edited 2005-04-17 05:28:37]


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineN844AA From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2496 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):
Two words, Pennsylvania Station. Worst act of vandalism ever!

No doubt. It's sobering to walk through that dismal warren and think about what it must have been like before they tore it down.

That said, Penn Station died so that T5 could live. It was the demolition of Penn Station that led to the creation of the NYC landmarks commision. Thankfully, now it is much, much harder to tear down an architectural treasure.

Quoting Jfklganyc (Reply 12):
It isn't that small at all! Keep in mind that TWA used to send their 747s with 300+ seats out of that terminal for nearly 30 years.

Actually, everything I've read indicates that it has been undersized for the last 30 years or so. If I recall correctly, it was designed at the very dawn of the jet age, before the 747 was even a gleam in her designer's eye. Therefore it was outdated almost immediately when the big jets started operating. That doesn't mean that it's not usuable, but it is pretty small.



New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16856 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2403 times:

I just don't think it's going to be used well or adequately preserved as some sort of LCC lounge or whatever, move it to another part of the airport attach it to a decent airport hotel and pull some old TWA and Pan Am birds out of the desert and put them on display at the building as an aviation museum.

They should also bring the Concorde back to JFK for display instead of sitting it on a barge on the Hudson, I love the Intrepid but why on Earth display a commercial airliner with military aircraft. The Intrepid, it's aircraft on display and the other ships moored with her are military in purpose. The Concorde does not belong there, it belongs on display at JFK incorporated into a museum which could also incorporate some former Pan Am and TWA 747s etc..



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
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