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What Are The Chances Of UAL Mainline To MDW  
User currently offlineGalvanAir777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 39 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5226 times:

Now, i recently understand that TED now flies out of Midway International (i love saying that by the way) but whats the chance of seeing UALs mainline birds out of the MDW?

Since AA,DL,CO, and NW all fly out of MDW, why not UAL?

Id love to see some UAL 57s and 37s out of MDW.  Smile


GalvanAir now Serving Airliners.net!
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5221 times:

Slim and none, and slim just left town.

If anything, TED will expand there to meet low-cost leisure demand.


User currently offlineGalvanAir777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5200 times:

But why? It seems to me anyway that the other bigs AA and DL do well out of MDW?

Is it because UAL dominates ORD? but wouldnt that be the same for AA too?



GalvanAir now Serving Airliners.net!
User currently offlineJdaniel001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5176 times:

Quoting GalvanAir777 (Reply 2):
Is it because UAL dominates ORD? but wouldnt that be the same for AA too?

UA could be it's worse enemy by offering mainline service out of MDW. They are doing the right thing by just adding TED.


User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5096 times:
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Quoting GalvanAir777 (Reply 2):
But why?

Because of the ATA codeshare, WN already sells tickets to DEN and DCA, thus the need for low-fare TED rather than UA mainline.


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5067 times:

UA tried flying mainline to MDW four times in the past (not including pre-ORD days). They failed each time. I hope Ted works out there, but with WN, I'm not holding my breath.

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25570 posts, RR: 86
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5048 times:
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Quoting Iowaman (Reply 4):
WN already sells tickets to DEN and DCA, thus the need for low-fare TED rather than UA mainline.

I would have thought it would be exactly the other way around. Why not offer the MDW pax something different from WN, not something similar.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5044 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 6):
Why not offer the MDW pax something different from WN, not something similar.

They have something different. It's called O'Hare.  Wink


User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5034 times:
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Quoting Mariner (Reply 6):
I would have thought it would be exactly the other way around. Why not offer the MDW pax something different from WN, not something similar.

Well there probably is a few people that want something different than WN, but then again people are more concerned about price. People near MDW are most likely acustomed to low fares and not willing to pay more than 20 bucks more then WN's fare to fly UA Mainline. Also, your username reminded me Frontier flies to DEN, there is lots of competeion between the three, thus the need for low fare TED.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25570 posts, RR: 86
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5014 times:
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Iowaman:

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 8):
your username reminded me Frontier flies to DEN, there is lots of competeion between the three, thus the need for low fare TED.

I suppose that's my point. Why join the mob? Why not give 'em something different?

I take your point about fares, and you may be correct, but United mainline doesn't seem to charge much more than any LCC on routes where they dirtectly compete. In fact, on a lot of routes, United mainline is sometimes cheaper than the LCC competition.

So I'm just puzzled. No more than that.  Smile

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4960 times:

Because it would go against the "grain" of what Midway is becoming, a low-fares airline airport. Airlines by serving Midway, align themselves with that identity.
The public is developing the perception, if they have not already, that by traveling out of Midway-The Budget Airport, they are somehow saving money. Almost second-class status in Chicagoland.

(Besides hubs, and a few cities, how many airports does UA and TED serve together; excluding SFO, DEN, LAX....?)

Keeping TED separate from Mainline is a difficult task. UA doesn't need to muddle the identity of it's core brand in it's strongest market; Chicago.
I say the perfect arrangement until such time Ted is spun off, or goes away. (Which we all know is going to happen someday, it's only inevitable)

Wondering if it should be done, SFO>>OAK, LAX>>BUR/ONT....?



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User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25570 posts, RR: 86
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4937 times:
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Stirling:

You're probably right. It still puzzles me, though.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 10):
how many airports does UA and TED serve together; excluding SFO, DEN, LAX....?)

Only the hubs (including IAD), I think. Which I thought was the point of Ted.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 10):
Keeping TED separate from Mainline is a difficult task. UA doesn't need to muddle the identity of it's core brand in it's strongest market; Chicago.

They don't seem to mind doing it at DEN, or SFO. Or even IAD.

Or, oddly, in Mexico. I can't see the logic, for example, of mainline DEN/CUN, and Ted DEN/SJD. Which is DEN/PVR - mainline or Ted? Does it matter?

However, given that Ted is for the leisure routes and MDW/DEN and MDW/IAD are not famously leisure routes, maybe I shall remain puzzled.

That's okay. I've been puzzled before.  Smile

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3047 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4865 times:

Quoting GalvanAir777 (Reply 2):
But why? It seems to me anyway that the other bigs AA and DL do well out of MDW?

I think AA isnt doing that good at MDW, they only have three flights to DFW. The four American Eagle flights to LGA no longer operate. When I do flight tracker checks those flights dont appear anymore.


User currently offlineMidway7 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4843 times:

I think the majors AA and UA missed the boat several years ago when MDW was half empty. They should have went in there and did what ATA ended up doing. The problem is they weren't interested in the late 90's and their balance sheets went to hell after 2000.

Now, due to their lack of foresight, they have SWA to deal with. From all indications SWA is and will remain a big player in the Chicago market. Its my opinion that they are grabbing a lot more O&D traffic than people think.

At who's expense will SWA prosper, a few years back I would say AA. However, with UA's vicarious financial position and AA's more aggressive position at ORD the past few years, it is anyone's ballgame right now.

I think the majors did not realize what MDW would turn into after the new terminal was built. It's no longer a small, unfunctional, secondary facility catering to flight to MCO. It's a modern - fully functional 39 (I believe) gate facility capable of competing with ORD to a much greater extent.

Midway 7


User currently offlineJdaniel001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4817 times:

Quoting Midway7 (Reply 13):
It's a modern - fully functional 39 (I believe) gate facility capable of competing with ORD to a much greater extent.

How are the gates allocated. It sound like the city only had 1 gate for TED or am I wrong? Or is TED subleasing from another carrier.

I think UA is making the right decision by easing TED into MDW. They are taking the travelers who are confused or whatever by the ATA bankruptcy and pullout of some of the service there. UA would be smart to add more service and frequency slowly.


User currently offlineSLUAviator From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 357 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4791 times:

There was an article in Crain's Chicago Business a few weeks ago saying that WN is going to seriously expand at MDW this year. By serious expansion, they said as much as 30%. The article quoted a WN exec who said they have 25 gates at MDW, and they would love to run 10 flights per day from each. 250 flights a day out of MDW sounds like WN has UA and AA square in their sights. Oh... I forgot to mention, the title of the article was "Southwest Smells Blood."


What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
User currently offlineCapt.Fantastic From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 750 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4756 times:

I believe the last time they tried mianline at Midway was in 1987 - they flew MDW - DEN and MDW - LAX with 727s. That didn't last long at all.

User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4747 times:
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Quoting Mariner (Reply 9):
Why not give 'em something different?

Drive to ORD in that case. As I said people just care about price, price and price. There is some variety with F9 having PTV's, etc. UA is trying to get TED as a recognized low-fare airline, even though it's part of UA. Maybe I'm doing a bad job explaining it.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 11):
Or, oddly, in Mexico. I can't see the logic, for example, of mainline DEN/CUN, and Ted DEN/SJD. Which is DEN/PVR - mainline or Ted? Does it matter?

Not really, just F9 competition, and DEN to CUN seems to have fairly high fares still, which is obviously a popular destination.

Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 15):
250 flights a day out of MDW sounds like WN has UA and AA square in their sights.

It won't affect UA and AA all that much, just the additional flights will clog up MDW more than it already is so it turns into ORD.


User currently offlineSLUAviator From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 357 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4739 times:

WN having 250 flights a day out of MDW will directly affect UA and AA. They are competing head to head on lots of routes which will drive prices down. That hurts both UA and AA. The big difference is the airport--either origin or destination. I think a lot of people would go to MDW instead of ORD and arrive in OAK instead of SFO if it saved them money. WN is going after the big boys, and there is practically nothing UA and AA can do to stop them.


What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4721 times:
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Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 18):
WN having 250 flights a day out of MDW will directly affect UA and AA. They are competing head to head on lots of routes which will drive prices down.

AA only has three flights a day out of MDW and UA (Ted) 5. I don't think they are concerned. ORD is a totally different market and they benefit the connecting traffic there.


User currently offlineJdaniel001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4707 times:

I wonder if it would benefit TED to exploit the leisure market at MDW and offer service to Mexico?

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25570 posts, RR: 86
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4707 times:
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Jdaniel001:

I would think that ORD and MDW constitute a single destination (Chicago) under the US/Mexico bilateral agreement.

Since only two airlines from each country can serve any city pair between the two countries, I would guess - just a guess - that most of the Chicago/Mexico authoritiies are already taken.

I'd be fairly sure that Chicago/Cancun already has two US airlines serving the route.

But I could be wrong.  Smile

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineJdaniel001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4698 times:

Had no idea how bilateral agreements work. Thanks for the explanation Mariner.

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25570 posts, RR: 86
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4691 times:
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Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 22):
Had no idea how bilateral agreements work.

It is only that bilateral agreement - US/Mexico - and it was to protect the two big Mexican airlines.

Most of the other countries do not have a limit on the number of airlines, but some have other twists and turns.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFrequentflykid From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1206 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4676 times:

The whole status thing really confuses me. I understand that some people think that by them flying, say, ORD-LAX on UA versus MDW-LAX on WN gives them a certain status or stigma. However, the overwhelming majority of people aren't going to care or remember who they are flying. A 747 and a 737 are all the same to most people and they don't care. They want the cheapest way from Chicago to Los Angeles. Besides people who find it easier to use one over the other or business people, they don't care if they use O'Hare or Midway. Cheap sells, obviously...

25 Jdaniel001 : I think cheap sells only to liesure travelers. I think the business travelers have a status thing and want the rewards of flying a larger a/c (with m
26 Iowaman : Location does definently matter, but I think the business people actually prefer smaller planes because it's quick boarding and unloading, and also q
27 Milesrich : One thing that is never mentioned is the distribution of the population in greater Chicagoland. The western suburbs, (Naperville, Downers Grove, Oakbr
28 Jdaniel001 : True to a sense. Maybe a day trip. But is someone knows they are going to be gone a few days. They don't care about getting on and off quickly, they
29 AADC10 : Isn't TED essentially mainline? Other than not having First Class and being painted a different color it is the same as UA mainline and is operated by
30 TedEx : I would say in this case, MDW is a leisure/discount destination that's now served from two cities with Ted service to other primarily leisure destina
31 Jdaniel001 : It is, but with the added seats they are more competitive against other LCC's. But you probably already knew that.
32 Jacobin777 : i absolutely agree, when I lived in Chicago, I occasionally fly out of MDW, from the mid 90's to the early 2000(AA MDW-LGA and ATA MDW-LGA/JFK). I st
33 Post contains images GalvanAir777 : I wouldnt be so sure of that. Living in Joliet myself, We almost exclusively fly out of O'hare. Even when we lived nearly a stones throw away(Oak Law
34 SendMEtoLAS : When UA added MDW-DEN service, I was dumbfounded. Why would a carrier that is already bleeding uncontrollably expose itself to the fare wars at MDW? S
35 Jdaniel001 : Connection opportunities with other TED flights maybe? UA has to protect its marketshare. I can quote hundreds of examples where an airline (against
36 Jacobin777 : ok..i should have said "most people".......especially if there are flights from MDW to their destination... i'm totally against the 3rd airport....AA
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