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Continental Airlines 1st Q Loss $192 Million  
User currently offlineDutch122 From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 66 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4191 times:

Just thas been released a few hours ago, Continental Airlines lost in the 1st Q $192 million dollars.

Have been trying to establish a link.

Think its pretty ok withe these exorbitant high fuel prices.

Dutch122

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4174 times:

http://money.cnn.com/services/ticker...nyw065.P1.04202005061302.19261.htm

Beat the estimates pretty handily, but still shows what fuel prices are doing to the industry. With the wage concessions in place, and with ticket prices firming a bit, hopefully the 2nd quarter will bring some better news.


User currently offlineDutch122 From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4111 times:

Falcon84

Fuel prices this high indeed shows what impact it has on airlines in generall. Continental Airlines needed the wage concessions and all the other sacrifices from their personnel, think the sky is going to shine a brighter soon. 2nd quarter is going to be better for Continental Airlines that's for sure.
This 1st Q loss surprised me also, I honestly thought that it was going be more.
So let's wait what the other major US airlines have been doing.

Dutch122


User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4050 times:

Wowww that's a bunch of greens.

User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3998 times:

They are now producing the the same margins as Southwest without the hedging. A 7.6% loss margin this Quarter compared to Southwest's 2.9%. But CO enacted 418 Million in pay cuts effective 4/1. That would have given them a 3.6% loss margin. And had the flight attendents gone along they would have had a loss margin a smidgen less than Southwest. It's all uphill from here.

User currently offlineKL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5084 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3975 times:

It's still not an excuse, those fuelprices. In Europe and Asia those prices are the same, and carriers make profits. There is something very wrong with the US aviation industry. It would be better to continue with 3 or 4 carriers, not 15. I can't think of any country in the world with so many carriers.

Now there are so many carriers that everybody competes against everybody and looses a lot of money.

KL911



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3937 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 5):
It's still not an excuse, those fuelprices. In Europe and Asia those prices are the same, and carriers make profits.

I might be wrong, but i believe the 'euro-legacies' are in trouble as well... BA AF etc, its the LCCs just like here that are making the money

TWA902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4252 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3936 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 5):
It would be better to continue with 3 or 4 carriers, not 15. I can't think of any country in the world with so many carriers.

Keep in mind the load factors for those 15 carriers are very high. Meaning the demand is certainly there. However, I do agree with your statement about having less carriers. I think the industry is heading for a shakeout. My guess is that the next 18 months will be a watershed. All these carriers are causing too much competition so no one can raise prices.

As a follow-on to your comment, what are the pricing structures like in Europe and Asia? I mean, are ticket prices comparable to here in the U.S. or are they generally higher, which allows for higher margins? Although I travel to Europe and Asia a few times each year, I've flown directly to my destinations so I haven't seen what intra-travel ticket prices are like.



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3927 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 5):
It's still not an excuse, those fuelprices.

Right. Fuel prices going from $30 a barrel to over $50 a barrel, and the costs passed along to the airlines, that's no excuse at all. Right. OK. Sure.


User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3927 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 5):
In Europe and Asia those prices are the same

But the Euro rise against the Dollar has negated alot of the damage fuel prices do to European carriers.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3899 times:

Well on a bright note the loss is considerably less than DL's!


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5637 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3898 times:

Come on, Conti, you can do it.
Man, they sure need some 787s to take advantage of that fuel efficiency.  spin 

Leave it to KL911 to smash America no matter what our news.
You don't know of any other country with this many carriers? I don't know of any other country with this many people flying. Let me qualify that- I don't know of any other FREE country with this many people flying. China's aviation industry is more regulated than ours ever was. And Japan has too small a land mass to sustain more than 3 or so carriers.
Hey- don't flame, it's relevant.
And the price of fuel is not the issue- it's the increase. IF YOUR precious KLM had to pay 30% more next month, I daresay you'd be whining your European hiney all the way to the bankruptcy judge.

All in good humor, none meant to insult.


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3886 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 5):
It would be better to continue with 3 or 4 carriers, not 15.

Screw that. I prefer to have lots of choices and cheap tickets. Apparently, so do most Americans; A.nutters notwithstanding. Wait until we are left with a total of 3 or 4 carriers across the entire nation and possibly $750 - 1000 coach tickets. Then people will be complaining about the high prices and lack of competition. The US is a huge country (both in land area and population) and having only 3 or 4 carriers would not provide adequate competition IMO. Besides, many markets in the US are already dominated by only one or two carriers with minor service from maybe another half-dozen. Relatively few markets have anything like 15 carriers with regular mainline service. When you’re ready to ante-up for my tickets, then you can complain that I have too many choices. Until then, backup your statement with something other than the 'competition is bad for America' mantra of the weathly elite.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineKL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5084 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3847 times:

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 7):
As a follow-on to your comment, what are the pricing structures like in Europe and Asia? I mean, are ticket prices comparable to here in the U.S. or are they generally higher, which allows for higher margins?

I'lm sure they are higher. ( Unless you fly LCC's) Plus, EU carriers don't fly to every little town in the state. It's quit common to travel 2 or 3 hours to reach an Airport with decent service. ( That's for leisure, there are ofcourse some routes aimed at business guys, but very expensive)

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
Right. Fuel prices going from $30 a barrel to over $50 a barrel, and the costs passed along to the airlines, that's no excuse at all. Right. OK. Sure.

It's not an excuse since most European and Asian carriers are making profits.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 6):
I might be wrong, but i believe the 'euro-legacies' are in trouble as well... BA AF etc, its the LCCs just like here that are making the money

Your'e wrong, KL/AF for example made a large profit.



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3809 times:

The EU carriers are just starting to go through a similar shakeout as the USA, as the LCCs are expanding there. Just look at SN, Swiss, AZ, Olympic.... Their domestic revenues are coming under severe pressures as Easyjet and Ryanair etc. take hold.

One advantage the EU will have in their future consolidation is that the EU bankruptcy laws are less liberal than the US laws. Their carriers will not be able to hide in re-organization for an extended period with entrenched management. This means that the carriers will liquidate or merge much more quickly, as can be seen in the cases of SN and LX.


User currently offlineDutch122 From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3793 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 5):
It's still not an excuse, those fuelprices. In Europe and Asia those prices are the same, and carriers make profits.

Do not agree, € is stronger then $, so European carriers spent percentage wise less on fuel, correct me if wrong.
And recently BA & AF/KL & LH announced again fuel surcharges, because at this moment European carriers feel the after affect the fuel prices.Because they are running low on their reserves.

AF-KL made a profit on Internationally flights especially to China India and Africa, but almost certain European flights there is almost no profit.
And do not forget that LH,AF/KL, AY & BA fly to destinations like China and India etc, that still have to be granted to most of the US Carriers, that´s why.

Wait till the LCC go Transatlantic, this wil happen in the near future that´s for sure, then also in Europe some big carriers will have some problems.

regards

Dutch122


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3733 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 14):
EU bankruptcy laws are less liberal than the US laws

Bankruptcy has its purpose. However, with conservative fundamentalists dominating the executive, legislative, and soon the judicial branches, we will quickly see sharp new curbs on personal bankruptcies while corporate bankruptcies will be left with their current incredibly liberal terms. It's important to note that the majority of personal bankruptcies are brought on through unexpected loss of employment and/or high medical bills from sudden injuries or ailments. Corporate bankruptcies, though, are largely the result of years or decades of risky management and shady bookkeeping. Is this a fair and even-handed position for our nation? American adults are too busy watching television programs written for a 5th grade audience to even notice this could be considered an issue.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineWAH64D From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 966 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3702 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 6):
I might be wrong, but i believe the 'euro-legacies' are in trouble as well... BA AF etc, its the LCCs just like here that are making the money

TWA902

I don't agree with your statement. BA are doing just fine.



I AM the No-spotalotacus.
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4252 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3695 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 16):
It's important to note that the majority of personal bankruptcies are brought on through unexpected loss of employment and/or high medical bills from sudden injuries or ailments.

In the future, you should back up such a broad statement with facts because it is not true. While some BKs occur because of loss of job or medical condition the truth is the vast majority of personal BKs in the U.S. are the result of easy credit (e.g., the ability to spend far beyond one's limits).

Now, kindly remove your politics from your sleeve and let's get back to talking about the topic at hand.



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1450 posts, RR: 44
Reply 19, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3635 times:

Man, they are sooooo close. They still have $1.3 billion in cash.

Some interesting notes from reading the financial statement:

(1) The fuel burn increase greatly lags the increase in ASM. This is good news.

(2) The year over year fuel-constant CASM was pretty good.

(3) Utlilization went up. A lot. How much higher can it go?

(3) The consolidated load factor was pretty darn good, at 76.8%. How much higher can it realistically get without adding flights or aircraft?

In other words, it seems to me they have just about maxed out the revenue side of the income statement, aside from seeing fares increase industry-wide OR cutting truly unprofitable routes. That leaves the cost side of the equation. The pay cuts weren't retroactive, right? If not, then we will see a bigger impact to the Q2 bottom line due to employee costs.

If they can get any additional load factor in Q2 and Q3, we might actually see profitability. What's holding up a renegotiation of their 735 leases?



Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
User currently offlineKL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5084 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3534 times:

Quoting Dutch122 (Reply 15):
Wait till the LCC go Transatlantic, this wil happen in the near future that´s for sure, then also in Europe some big carriers will have some problems.

Will never happen. LCC's rely on a lot of shorthaul trips per day, with quick turnaround time. Longhaul costs will be the same as the other carriers, so no LCC there.



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3860 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3491 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 20):
Will never happen. LCC's rely on a lot of shorthaul trips per day, with quick turnaround time. Longhaul costs will be the same as the other carriers, so no LCC there.

Agreed, Laker and People Express tried it in the late 70s and early 80s and it judt didn't work.

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlinePiedmontnut From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3479 times:

I thought AF was doing just fine. Am I in error?


May the A380 arrive @ MCO in the near future.
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3384 times:

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 18):
In the future, you should back up such a broad statement with facts because it is not true.

Yes, I probably should have included some sort of corroborating data in my post. We all know that many posts state opinions as facts without having any basis in reality. Those who know what they're talking about only do their cause a disservice when they fail to include at least a link to additional resources, including yourself.

As for my stated position, I first heard these sorts of statistics on NPR, but since I can't cut and paste audio tracks as easily as text, here is an excerpt in a similar vein from msnbc.com:

BOSTON - Costly illnesses trigger about half of all personal bankruptcies, and most of those who go bankrupt because of medical problems have health insurance, according to findings from a Harvard University study to be released Wednesday.

Illness and medical bills were cited as the cause, at least in part, for 46.2 percent of the personal bankruptcies in the study. Himmelstein said the figure rose to 54.5 percent when three other factors were counted as medical-related triggers for bankruptcies: births, deaths and pathological gambling addiction.


Click here for the rest of the article on msnbc.com

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 18):
While some BKs occur because of loss of job or medical condition the truth is the vast majority of personal BKs in the U.S. are the result of easy credit (e.g., the ability to spend far beyond one's limits).

Now, you may disagree with the link I provided, but until you provide your own content to backup your own position, your post is no better than mine was. In all honesty, there's no specific reason we can't both be right. Unexpected loss of employment and/or high medical bills coupled with a few high-interest credit cards can be a recipe for disaster in many households.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4522 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3371 times:

RedFlyer.. with the exception of getting back on topic your statement was completely wrong. The evidence SATX posted tells the story. But as you said.. back on topic  Smile


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
25 Mtnmanmakalu : Why should the CO employees have to subsidize fuel prices? They should be passed on to the consumers just like at the pump.... Do the UPS and Fed-Ex
26 RedFlyer : I can't let it go without answering, but I promise this is the end of it (and then back on topic). And maybe I'll toss in a relationship to this forum
27 DfwRevolution : Might want to tell that to WN, who are moving to longer and longer routes to keep cost down.
28 Kdeg00 : Don't know if anyone noticed, but the quote by SATX was from MSNBC, not NPR. Going on a liberal-bashing rampage is fun and all, but you might as well
29 Coa764 : I can't .. No actually I can believe that some of you people are nothing but a bunch of wild eye vultures impatiently circling for the fall of an air
30 RedFlyer : Amen, ContnlEliteCMH! I need say no more. SATX originally referenced as a source NPR. He just wasn't able to transfer the media to here. With regards
31 N844AA : You know, the confluence of factors acting these days against CO et al is, essentially, a worst case scenario for the industry. Yeah, it could be wor
32 Mtnmanmakalu : Your a jerk- It's soooo nice that you have the solution to EVERY problem by doing what YOU think is right.....Some people do make critical mistakes w
33 RedFlyer : Speaking only for myself, I'm not a "wild eye" vulture impatiently circling for the fall of an airline. Frankly I'm impatiently waiting for the finan
34 RedFlyer : I can see being a "First Class Member" on a.net means nothing with regards to the caliber of person. Actually, they did - and continue - to have a ch
35 Mtnmanmakalu : Wishing that thousands of people lose their jobs???? What else would you call it??? How long have you lived in the USA? Read the news at all? Seen ho
36 Post contains links SATX : Personally, I think airlines like United are getting a bit too much help with their ever-expanding holiday from debt, indirectly at taxpayer's expense
37 Kdeg00 : No, SATX mentioned that he had heard an article on NPR. He "referenced" an article from MSNBC. As far as politicizing an argument, I agree with you i
38 Mtnmanmakalu : Actually, I would put Delta on the bubble before Northwest as they own so many of their A/C and can afford to park them without making payments if th
39 RedFlyer : My entire life. All the time. I'm just smart enough to know what's factual and what's hyperbole. Actually, I hear the management jobs at Wal-Mart are
40 SATX : Isn't it strange that while I'm "seething with rage and hatred," I'm also the only one who's showing any compassion for American consumers? Something
41 ContnlEliteCMH : You guys are reading waaaaay too much into my statement that I'm miffed. My reasons have nothing to do with wanting an airline to fail. Good grief. Ca
42 Post contains images Mtnmanmakalu : I can appreciate that- Like you, I just want to support my family and enjoy my life. I can guarantee you that if you flew on a flight I was working,
43 ContnlEliteCMH : I dispute that it's a worst case. Actually, it could be faaaar worse for CO. They could have trouble with labor relations, and not get the concession
44 Post contains images RedFlyer : Given your passion in your posts, I realize you do love your job and that I would enjoy the service. Right on! I knew a.net didn't let just ANYONE be
45 Post contains images N844AA : I think we're largely in agreement in that. I was primarily trying to argue that a rational or even an objectively good business decision (whatever t
46 ContnlEliteCMH : Well, at least you admit that you are full of hatred. That will earn you exactly one half more brownie point than the zero your fellow libs get from
47 SATX : Um, no, there was no admission of a falsehood on my part. Try again troll. I do not want to protect folks from their employers. I want to protect fol
48 Post contains images Indy : That is brilliant Absolutely a classic response.
49 AirPortugal310 : Hence why they dont make money.
50 Post contains links SATX : I am confident that there is a reasonable middle-ground between 15 airlines and 3. My comment was in reponse to the concept that we should have no mo
51 Dutch122 : mtnman Sorry, but we where informed already that this could happen more then a year ago by Gordon Bethune himself. If we where not able to get the cos
52 JetSOUTHEAST : "Screw that. I prefer to have lots of choices and cheap tickets. Apparently, so do most Americans; A.nutters notwithstanding. Wait until we are left w
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