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How Do Paris' Orly And CDG Airports Compare?  
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3036 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 6 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4992 times:

How do Paris' two main airports compare to each other?

From somebody living outside of France I would always assume CDG is the busier and more major airport for Paris. Foreign airlines always seem to fly to CDG.

How does Air France's operation differ at both airports - Do they serve for example domestic traffic and European traffic from one airport and long hauls from the other?

How do passenger numbers, slot availablility and number of runways compare between the two?

Also would it be a fair comparison comparing them with London where LHR is similar to CDG and ORY is equivalent to LGW?

[Edited 2005-04-22 14:40:26]

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4977 times:

ORY is primarily domestic, with some North African carriers thrown in - some business routes to European destinations in Spain and Portugal go from ORY too eg. MAD, LIS, BCN etc.

AF's domestic operation at ORY is centred round "La Navette" - shuttle routes to the main cities in France, MRS, NCE, BOD, TLS, and AF Régional flights to the smaller cities. AF is based in Orly Ouest, quite a nice terminal and fairly well designed for fast shuttle-style services.

U2 also operate domestic services, from ORY Sud, the older terminal - still quite nice, but fairly dated nowadays. Most other carriers at ORY operate from the South terminal as well.


User currently offlineJsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2041 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4893 times:

I went to Paris last May and visited both airports.

CDG takes a lot of heat on these forums for being crowded, dirty, inconvenient for connections, and difficult to navigate. Some of the criticism is deserved, some is not. I arrived in CDG-2A and found it to be very easy to use - baggage claim was a bit slow, but there was no wait at immigration and check-in proceeded smoothly as well.

There are endless buses circulating between all the terminals that, once you figure them out, are fairly easy to use. The CDG-2 complex has an integrated rail station that serves both TGV (long-distance) and RER (local) trains, while CDG-1 passengers have to use a much more inconvenient remote train station.

In terms of traffic, CDG handles a very diverse assortment, but it's difficult to see. Viewing in the terminals is very limited, and the split runway layout - CDG is almost two separate airports - mean you can only watch half the show at a time. It's a little frustrating.

I also took the RER down to Orly. ORY doesn't have a direct RER connection; you have to leave the train at Antony station and take the OrlyVAL - a sort of automated tram - to the airport. There are stations for both terminals.

Orly Sud (South Terminal) seems to handle a lot of low-cost traffic, as well as charters by various French companies (like Nouvelles Frontieres) and a lot of North African traffic to places like Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria. I'm not sure why so much of this traffic stayed at Orly when everything else moved to CDG.

Orly Ouest (West Terminal) is much larger but is used almost exclusively by Air France. One wing of the terminal is for the "La Navette" domestic shuttles to Marseilles, Nice, Bordeaux, etc., while the other wing handles long-haul flights to French Overseas Departments like Mayotte, La Reunion, Guadeloupe and Cayenne. Although these get 747 and 777 service, they're effectively considered domestic flights.

I don't think CDG/ORY can be likened fully to LHR/LGW - perhaps a decade ago the comparison could be made, but Aeroports de Paris has done their best to push ALL long-haul carriers to CDG. Today Orly doesn't handle near the amount of long-haul traffic it once did.

Both airports are fascinating, and the rail links are fast and easy to use. The RER to CDG takes only about 25 minutes to get to Gare du Nord, and about a half-hour to get to Chatelet-Les Halles. The train to Antony (for Orly) is only about 20 minutes from Les Halles as well, and OrlyVAL takes another 5-10 minutes.


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7415 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4799 times:

Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 2):
Orly Ouest (West Terminal) is much larger but is used almost exclusively by Air France. One wing of the terminal is for the "La Navette" domestic shuttles to Marseilles, Nice, Bordeaux, etc., while the other wing handles long-haul flights to French Overseas Departments like Mayotte, La Reunion, Guadeloupe and Cayenne. Although these get 747 and 777 service, they're effectively considered domestic flights.

Orly Ouest is used by three airlines : Air France, Iberia and TAP Air Portugal.
AF operates only 4 long-haul routes from ORLY, all domestic : PTP, FDF, CAY, RUN with B744, B743 and A343.
No operations from ORLY with a B777.
The International destinations operated by AF from ORLY are LCY, ALG and RAK.

Orly Sud (South terminal) is much bigger in size than Orly Ouest, but is now mostly used by Charter and LCC airlines (Corsair, Aigle Azur*, Easy Jet ...). Some regular airlines still operate to/from Orly South :

Iran Air
Tunis Air
Air Algérie *
Royal Air Maroc *
Syrian Air
Turkish Airlines
El Al *
Air Sénégal international
Egypt'Air
Air Caraïbes
Air Malta

* also to/from CDG


User currently offlineJsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2041 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4720 times:

Does Air France no longer serve Mayotte from Orly? I know they operated on the route a few years back.

If you re-read, I said that Orly Ouest is used *almost* exclusively by Air France. Iberia and TAP do use one departure hall on the northern end of the terminal, near the OrlyVAL station.

I'm also almost positive that Orly Ouest tops Orly Sud in terms of usable square footage. Orly Sud looks much larger (it's got an office building on top of it) but arrivals and departures are on the same level and much of the building is devoted to airline and ADP offices. Orly Ouest is on a two-level setup and I thought was much bigger.


User currently offlineAntares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 39
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4686 times:

If you deplane at CDG 1 and wish to use the TGV or RER, is it better to get the coach (navette) to CDG 2 to use its integrated rail station, or go to the remote station?

Many thanks

Antares


User currently onlineAOMlover From Singapore, joined Jul 2001, 1305 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4680 times:

Orly is really a nice airport. Not too long ago, it got some pretty interesting traffic, especially when AOM and Air Liberté were still around.
AOM even flew from Orly to Tokyo in the 90s !
Then in 2000 for example, AOM flew from Orly from Terminal Sud to Cayenne, Pointe-à-pitre, Fort-de-france, St Maarten, Varadero, Nassau, St Denis de la Réunion, Colombo-Sydney-Nouméa, Los Angeles-Papeete...
While Air Liberté was flying to the Carribean/La Reunion.
Then you know what happened...
Jsnww81, are you sure there's ever been a direct flight between Mayotte and mainland France ? I think Air Bourbon wanted to set one but well then it went bust...
Right now I think that Hall 2 at Orly is being refurbished.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26593 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4674 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 1):
ORY is primarily domestic, with some North African carriers thrown in - some business routes to European destinations in Spain and Portugal go from ORY too eg. MAD, LIS, BCN etc.

Most Middle Eastern carriers go there as well. So does Cubana last I checked.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7415 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4581 times:

Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 4):
Does Air France no longer serve Mayotte from Orly? I know they operated on the route a few years back.

Mayotte was, indeed, served by Air France but from CDG until the mid-90's.
In the 80's, Mayotte was served by an AF A300B4 ! the flight was routing CDG-NCE-AUH-JED-YVA

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
Most Middle Eastern carriers go there as well. So does Cubana last I checked.

Cubana flies to ORY. I forgot them on my list in reply#3.
I also forgot Royal Jordanian who still flies to ORY.
MEA was also flying to ORY until late 90's/Early2000. They moved to CDG after the cooperation agreement AF/ME was signed.

Iraki Airways was also serving ORLY until 1991.


User currently offlineMightyFalcon From Oman, joined Jun 2001, 384 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4560 times:

As for the 2004 statistics:

CDG : 50.9 millions (pax) +5.5% compared to 2003

ORY : 24.0 millions (pax) +7.0% compared to 2003

(Source: Aviation Business magazine)



The sky has no limit...
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4521 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 8):
Mayotte was, indeed, served by Air France but from CDG until the mid-90's.
In the 80's, Mayotte was served by an AF A300B4 ! the flight was routing CDG-NCE-AUH-JED-YVA

YVA is Moroni, in the Comores, which is an independent country. Mayotte is a French TOM, served through Dzaoudzi (DZA) - as far as I know there has never been service from France to DZA - you have to fly through RUN or NBO.


User currently offlineParisien From France, joined Dec 2000, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4491 times:

Antares, you can also get the bus (local express RATP) to Opéra or the Air France bus to Gare de Lyon and Montparnasse. All three stops are well served by other buses or metro or RER to get you to where you want to go.
I have not thought about what you suggested, I may try it next time. I have not had problems like waiting time getting to the CDG1 RER station by the shuttle, but sometimes getting to the terminal from the RER station it seems that the bus is rare and when it comes you have to fight your way againts all the others !
oh yes, there are also airport shuttles that you can book via internet. great if you are the first to be dropped off, but loooonng when youre the last (though you get a free visit of Paris !)


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7415 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4466 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 10):
YVA is Moroni, in the Comores, which is an independent country. Mayotte is a French TOM, served through Dzaoudzi (DZA) - as far as I know there has never been service from France to DZA - you have to fly through RUN or NBO.

You are absolutely right. Sorry for this mistake.
I don't think either that DZA was ever served from Paris by AF. Air Austral (UU) flies from RUN to DZA and YVA, in connection with AF flights to/from Paris.


User currently offlineBananaBoY From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 1581 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4459 times:

Not seen ORY but I have to say I though CDG T1 was a dire.. possibly the worst airport I have ever been to.

Poorly designed and signposted.. give me LHR anyday.

Mark



All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
User currently offlinePblaketas From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4450 times:

Quoting AOMlover (Reply 6):
Orly is really a nice airport. Not too long ago, it got some pretty interesting traffic, especially when AOM and Air Liberté were still around.

I stayed with a family for 2 weeks just south of Orly on the flightpath, back in 1997, and gee there were lots of interesting planes! Lots of noisy ones! For a 16 year old who was used to just 737s and 767s in Australia etc, it was so exciting....there were those Russian things with 4 rear mounted engines, I saw loads of Corsair 747s, it was bloody exciting.


User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4427 times:

FlySSC, LY only serves CDG

Horus



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
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