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Mesaba To Operate CRJ's For NW  
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3295 posts, RR: 4
Posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5842 times:

"Mesaba Aviation, Inc., a subsidiary company of MAIR Holdings, Inc. (NASDAQ:MAIR - News), today announced that it has signed a letter of intent with Northwest Airlines to operate 15 Bombardier CRJ-200 regional jets under the Northwest Airlink banner, with exclusive rights to the next 20 CRJ-200 or CRJ-440 aircraft Northwest Airlines may order. Mesaba will lease the aircraft from Northwest Airlines and expects the first aircraft to enter service before the end of 2005."

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050422/225054.html?.v=1

72 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4897 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5819 times:

Question: WHY!?!??!?!?!??!??!?!??!?!?!??!?!?
Pinnacle already operates them. Why would we need XJ to operate the same thing?



Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2005 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5806 times:

From the way the article sounded, XJ will not continue operating the Avros and the Saabs. Could this CRJ agreement possibly lead to a CR7 order to replace the Avros? They have similar type ratings, so less training costs, etc right (please correct me if I'm wrong)? I think the reason why they did this was to keep growing...AZJ would be able to elaborate more on this because it's my understanding that XJ has been in a holding pattern (so to speak) on growth. I think it's good for XJ to finally see something positive for them.

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7597 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5777 times:

What new aircraft for Mesaba?????? No it can't be true.
Finally.
With all the rumors, lies, side-deals going on, this "Big Friday announcement" was rumored to happen about two months ago. Stuff has been brewing over at XJ for a while with a lot of new hiring at the pilot, FA, training dept, and management level.

No, the Saab's & Avro's are not going away. 15 CRJ's do not replace 35 ARJ's and 63 Saabs. What it does say it that the operating agreement that dictates the terms of payments for the Avro's & Saabs will continue as they are until those contracts are up at their respective dates in 2007. From that point forward, the operating terms of those aircraft will fall under the same terms that dictate payment for flying that states it will be based upon the average operating margin for all publicly held regionals. NW maintains the leases on 25 of the Avro's and 49 Saabs (B+). NW owns 10 of the Avro's. Those aircraft are subleased to XJ. The remaining 14 Saabs (A & B's) are leased directly by XJ from other leasing companies. Leases run through 2007+ for the Avro's, and the Saabs (B+) are on lease through 2010-2012.

Could this be a precursor to the CR7's? Maybe, maybe not, but nothing has been decided in terms of the 70 seat scope clause yet. Pinnacle's current order for CRJ's is up later this year, and NW wants them to keep on coming. 9E is approaching contract time, and NW is starting up its negotiating tactics. Basically stating that its not playing favorites with its regionals....shrink one, grow another. They don't want to get stuck in the all eggs in one basket case, should 9E have any work action.

The downside.....this doesn't necessary look good for more mainline flying, and the CRJ haters out there.


User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2005 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5766 times:

Thanks PSU...I didn't think XJ was going to throw those Saabs out the door. I honestly like their role in the NW network. It allows NW to keep flying to a lot of cities that UA and AA have quit flying to because of the RJs.

User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5686 times:

No!!!!!! No more CR2's !!!!!!!


But seriously, if XJ were to go after an Avro replacement, is the E170 not superior to the CR7?



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7597 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5676 times:

70 seaters are a non-issue for now, until mainline pilots & management work out the scope clause. Yes, in most respects the E-170 is superior, but it depends on the mission.

I find it interesting, although not surprised, and I am glad that they will get new-build CRJ's. At least they aren't getting some of the former DH aircraft.


User currently offline146CREW From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5660 times:

I thought that the NW pilots concessionary agreement stated all future RJ orders would have to go to a third operator? Are these RJ already on order? Correct me if I'm wrong (I know someone will anyway!  Smile ) Thanks.


Cross check complete.
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5639 times:

Former DH aircraft? Did DH fold?


What now?
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3295 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5612 times:

DH sold some CRJ's to SkyWest. They haven't folded, but they don't have all the CRJs they once had.

User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3295 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5541 times:

Just a bump for those who cannot scroll down and make new threads....

User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2462 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5507 times:

Ill post my reply from my thread:

Just noticed this...but when i did a search nothing came up. Sorry bout that.
Suggesting deletion. Thanks


XJR


XJR



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7597 posts, RR: 27
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5490 times:

No, the new concessionary contract did not specifically state that all future RJ's would go to a 3rd Airlink. Although it did allow for that option in the future. The thinking was that if UA or US closed up shop that NW could quickly jump into markets and rapidly ramp up operations to pick up lucrative routes. The other thinking is that with the current musical chairs of regional feed providers that is going on in the industry, that someone would be looking for a home, and would operate cheaply just to stay in business. With all the events that have materialized as of late, that doesn't look to be the case. US will be sticking around for a while, DH still keeping their head above water, United giving the boot to AirWhisky, AirWhisky flying for USX, etc, etc, that the 3rd Airlink provision is not needed. The provision for the 3rd Airlink was not for them to order new RJ's, but instead to pick up RJ's without a home on the cheap. With Pinnacle & Mesaba, NW pretty much controls everything, including maintaining the leases on the aircraft. With a 3rd Airlink it would be more or less independent contracted regional feed.

That being said:
Pinnacle currently has around 125 +/- CRJ's with the final delivery count to be 139 (or 138 due to the incident in Missouri last fall).
Mesaba will get 15, bring the total number of CRJ's in the NW system to 154.

That being said, NW could go up to 174 if they exercise the additional 20 options for Mesaba. The question is, how many more 50 seaters can the NW system take, based upon routes and facility constraints. DTW is gonna be packed until next summer with the new rebuilt concourse C opens.


User currently offlineNLINK From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5454 times:

The Pinnalce total CRJ count will be 137, due to the Missouri and due another one in MKE.

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7597 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5445 times:

Is the MKE incident definetely a write-off now?

Initially the damage estimates were not too bad, when they ran off the runway during landing. The aircraft was still able to taxi to the gate.


User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3295 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5423 times:

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 12):
The question is, how many more 50 seaters can the NW system take, based upon routes and facility constraints. DTW is gonna be packed until next summer with the new rebuilt concourse C opens.

They don't have to be hub based. NW has been expanding at IND and MKE. These aircraft could be used for more focus city or point to point flying. You are correct that sooner or later the hubs will max out. But I'd imagine that the brain trust at NWA knows what non-hub markets that they could capitalize upon. As someone who just flys NW a lot, I'd love to see a MSP-TOL flight. Maybe with this aircraft, it'll actually happen.


User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2453 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5381 times:

I'd rather fly on a Saab than a CR2. At least the Saabs have windows you can actually look out.....


Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineNLINK From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5376 times:

To my understanding the plane is a write off. The plane is still in a hanger in MKE. I believe there is a couple creases in the fusealage that would not be cost effective to repair.

[Edited 2005-04-22 20:04:48]

User currently offlineCIDflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2313 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5317 times:

Question:
Could NW order a CR7 and take one seat out to get around the clause? Or perhaps configure a first class section of 4 seats which would bring it down to 66 seats?
Personally I would like to see them order the E70, looks like a more comfortable plane. I flew this past winter MSP-PNS in the CRJ, it felt rather cramped for a flight of that duration.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 12):
The question is, how many more 50 seaters can the NW system take, based upon routes and facility constraints. DTW is gonna be packed until next summer with the new rebuilt concourse C opens.

They could also be used to open up some more routes from the MEM hub to mid-sized cities in the midwest such as Fort Wayne, Green Bay, Cedar Rapids, Peoria or upgrading exisiting saab flights to DTW and MSP as well.


User currently offlineWingnutMN From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 644 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5272 times:

Does any of this have anything to do with 9E pilots in negotiations for a new contract??? Reminds me of when XJ was negotiating their pilot contract and NW was threating to remove the ARJ's and discontinue service agreements with XJ. NW really is the dirtiest player in the game!!!!

WingnutMN



Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7597 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5250 times:

CIDFlyer,

No, NW could not order a CR7 and take a seat out. There is scope on everything 45 seats and up. The scope breakdown for the Airlinks as it stands:

44 seats and under: unlimited (hence the CRJ-440)
45-55 seats: restrict to XX number of aircraft (recent concessionary contract raised the number of 50 seat CRJ's allow)
55 - 69 seats: NW mainline flying with the except to grandfather in the 36 Avros (35 in service)
70 seat flying: not allowed at Airlink-mainline flying


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4568 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5230 times:

I am going to take heat for this but here it goes anyway.. lol...

NW is adding 3 more gates in IND to give it a total of 8 this summer. Could they be picking up these extra jets to beef up their IND schedule as I heard rumored they would?



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4602 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5217 times:

You know they could always add something to TOL. Sheesh. Not that I mind flying the 20 minutes over the Maumee Bay and western Lake Erie...bumping around the entire way...but MSP and especially MEM would be nice for those of us down south.

User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5130 times:

If the CR2 replaces the S340, will that cut some of the smaller routes? There are a lot of routes too small for a 50 seat jet and they are lucky to get a 34 seat Saab 340 half full. I just wonder if we will see the end of some of those UP Michigan routes like Houghton Hancock, Escanaba etc. Also do some of those airports have long enough runways to handle jets?

User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5080 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

This from AP yesterday - note the third paragraph

Northwest Airlines Corp., parent of one of the nation's biggest air carriers, said Thursday its loss nearly doubled in the first quarter as price competition weakened revenue and soaring fuel costs continued to batter its results.

The company's loss swelled to $458 million, or $5.28 per share, for the January-March period from $230 million, or $2.67 per share, in the year-ago period. Excluding one-time charges, its adjusted loss was $440 million, or $5.07 per share, Northwest said.

Meanwhile, Northwest's regional carriers took in revenue of $276 million, up 27 percent from $217 million the year before.


I'd like to see a breakdown on losses at the Links



Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
25 Pensacolaguy : Yikes, must of not been fun, but it sure beats connecting. No trip report? As far as Mesaba operating CRJs, good for them, I don't see what the big d
26 KcrwFlyer : ive seen a saab take longer to get up than a crj. many times.
27 PSU.DTW.SCE : NASCAR, Mesaba is not retiring the Saabs. The addition of the CRJ's does not change the fleet plans for the Saabs or Avro's. The B+'s are on long term
28 CIDflyer : Pensacolaguy, I will admit it did beat making a double connection. I have always been routed when flying NWA CID-MSP-MEM-PNS (or VPS depending which
29 TOLtommy : My understanding is that the regionals don't assume any risk for selling tickets, they only operate the aircraft. Therefore, they don't assume any di
30 M404 : Thanks Tommy, That is what I'd like to ask. Or even more pointedly, how much loss. With what you've said one would think it is possible since Pinnacle
31 TOLtommy : M404 - Go to Yahoo Finance. Mesaba's stock ticker is MAIR, Pinnacle is PNCL. The thing to remember is that both should be treated like other suppliers
32 AviatorTJ : I wonder if this means we will see regs on NW CRJs that are normal, like with the XJ suffix. Just from a photographer's POV, that would be nice. From
33 XFSUgimpLB41X : Aviator: the 9E CRJ's are reg'd aligned with their ship number. like 8888D is ship 8888 or aircraft s/n 7888. The newest ones have an AY tail.... 824A
34 Iowaman : Or if they would just start CID-MEM....
35 AviatorTJ : XFSU, Any idea where the letter comes from? Apparently, this is not a big deal, but the four numbers still beats CO's 5 numbers. I haven't seen any A
36 CIDflyer : my sentiments exactly Iowaman. Would love to have non stop access to NWA's southern hub...
37 XFSUgimpLB41X : the AY tails are the newest planes. All ships higher than 8968 except 8970 are flaps 8 equipped. Probably the letters were what was available when the
38 Post contains images AsstChiefMark : I hear at least six MSP-EAU or EAU-MSP flights using SF340's going over my house every day at 4000 to 6000 feet AGL. It would be cool if they were CRJ
39 Indy : How many of these do you think could be delivered to IND as part of their service expansion? Provided that the rumors that have been floated are true.
40 TOLtommy : It's certainly possible that expansion at IND is in the works, but I wouldn't say that being told by an agent is a credible source of news. You can be
41 Indy : I agree with the news source. But the same info has come from two different places. But even without that NW is operating 50 flights a day from 5 gate
42 TOLtommy : Maybe, but it could also be that by taking the gates before they are ready for them, they are simply preventing a competitor from getting the gates. W
43 PSU.DTW.SCE : The CRJ's could end up anywhere in the system, although its highly unlikely Mesaba will base any in MEM, at least initially.
44 PSU.DTW.SCE : Here's some additional information on the CRJ's coming to Mesaba based upon a conference call from management yesterday (4/25/05). Highlights: - 1st C
45 TOLtommy : Okay, now we know why this was in the original press release that I linked: "Mesaba will incur the costs necessary to bring the new CRJ fleet into se
46 PSU.DTW.SCE : I think that line can be interpreted in many ways. That could mean additional CRJ's, replacement for the Avro fleet, replacement for the Saab fleet, e
47 Kcrwflyer : Whats so special about flaps 8?
48 NLINK : Flaps 8 allows much better performance out of hot and high airports. Basically allows them to carry full loads out of either shorter runways or out we
49 KcrwFlyer : so it has the effect of a leading edge slat?
50 PSU.DTW.SCE : It doesn't exactly have the same effect as leading edge slats. The initial CRJ order for Pinnacle did not have the Flaps 8 option. Some of the origina
51 KcrwFlyer : sorry for my stupidity.. is this a degree of flaps to be set by the pilot? if so dont they usually use 20 for departure on smaller runways anyway?
52 Azjubilee : Kcrw... all flaps are set by the pilots. I don't know anythng about the t/o flap setting for the CRJ... but not all airplaes have the same flap system
53 TOLtommy : Hot and high airports? Based in MSP? Sounds like there could be some expansion into the Mountain West from MSP? Maybe multiple CRJ's to replace DC9's
54 Iowaman : It will take a hell of a lot of CRJ's to replace the Montana market, so I hope not. Also, that would be a long CRJ ride such as the current HLN-MSP r
55 TOLtommy : I agree, but the CRJ is flying IAH-MSP now, so longer flights are probablya fact of life.
56 Post contains images KaiGywer : Does this mean ASE could possibly see the CRJ eventually or is this still not approved? AZJ, happy birthday! You joined A.net exactly 5 years ago Oh,
57 Post contains links KaiGywer : Might as well add this, from www.mesaba.com Supervisor of CRJ Training CRJ Fleet Manager CRJ Checkman/APD Lots of other jobs as well with XJ, but thes
58 PSU.DTW.SCE : No, Flaps 8 still won't get it the CRJ in/out of ASE. Its not so much normal take-off & landing procedures, but in the event of an engine failure on t
59 Azjubilee : Kai - the avro is also very slow, which enables it to maneuver like no other plane can. Now that AirWisconsin will be leaving the UA system and gettin
60 TOLtommy : There we have it, the next NW focus city! Wonder if that would work? Maybe flying the RJ85 to/from Skyteam hubs to ASE?
61 Post contains images KaiGywer : Now that would be great I volunteer for duty in ASE
62 PSU.DTW.SCE : Although Air Whisky and the 146's are leaving the UAX system, the word on the street is that they will still be around for next winter (2005-2006) and
63 NLINK : I think I read somewhere that the EMB-190 will be able to do Aspen ok, not sure if the EMB-170 series can or not.
64 Acidradio : If so, cool. But at any kind of standard operating weights and without significant weight penalties? You have to consider that ASE is up at like 9000
65 PSU.DTW.SCE : Actually on 2nd thought I do see how MEM-ASE is needed, but I'm sure NW would fly a DTW-ASE in season if the Avro had the range. There are a lot of ri
66 Access-Air : Hey NASCARAirforce... If the CR2 replaces the S340, will that cut some of the smaller routes? There are a lot of routes too small for a 50 seat jet an
67 TOLtommy : And the answer about replacing saabs from earlier in the thread...
68 Burnsie28 : Thats why so many routings anymore connect you through IND as well.
69 TOLtommy : I'm a gold elite, have 5 segments booked for next week, 2 the week after, and I haven't had NWA.com offer me a routing thru IND yet. They may be conne
70 Post contains images Mrocktor : Common misconception. Twins are designed to fly on one engine, quads are designed to fly on three. No difference whatsoever - except that the quad is
71 Post contains links Indy : It took NW a while but they finally added the IND terminal map to their website... http://www.nwa.com/travel/trave/airports/IND.shtml Without turning
72 Post contains links Indy : Not sure if its the head cold doing it to me or if there just isn't a way to edit my post... but here is the corrected link... http://www.nwa.com/trav
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