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What Is The Future Of Russian Airliners.  
User currently offlineGeorgiabill From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 584 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6264 times:
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With increasing numbers of Boeing and Airbus aircraft in Russia. What is the future of commercial airliner developement in Russia?

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12807 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6258 times:
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Sadly, I don't think it's very bright.

Being the old git that I am, I love nothing more than the throbbing tones of an Il-18, the throaty roar of a Tu-134 or Tu-154, or the crackling growl of an Il-62. Then of course, there's the shattering scream of an Il-76.

I think it's very sad that Aeroflot is replacing it's Tu-134s and Tu-154s with Airbus A32xs.  Sad With other Russian airlines like Transaero operating 737s and 767s and VIM now operating 757s, it won't be long before the Tupolevs, Ilyushins and Antonovs are only operated by 3rd tier airlines  crying 

Steve  old 



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineLevg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6228 times:

Well, as it is right now, TU-154 is the most popular aircraft in Russia. The IL-62 is simply outdated. I think it's the only aircraft currently in use that requires a 5-person crew.

The new Tupolev aircraft currently in production might have a future in Russia. I, however, doubt they'll make an international debut the way Airbus made years ago. In my opinion, the only way for Russian aircraft to be popular is for a western company to order some. I kind of doubt that'll happen anytime soon.



A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
User currently offlinePlaneSmart From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 1030 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6172 times:

Russian industry has a possible future as manufacturing / risk sharing partners with Boeing and Airbus, perhaps building 737/A32 replacements, although there are a lot of countries fighting for this opportunity.

Russian expertise is certainly in demand overseas.

Past attempts to sell Russian airliners with Western engines at bargain basement prices were not successful.

It's the old ownership cost argument. Operating costs unknown, residual value very low, insurance premiums high and lender/leasor risk margin premiums very high = not an economic proposition.


User currently offlineOptionsCLE From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 6132 times:

The RRJ looked very promising. What's its status?

-Andrew


User currently offlineGeorgiabill From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 584 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6038 times:
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As far as I know Tupolev was to sell the 204 to Iran and Libya. The IL96-300 sold two aircraft to Cubana and Aeroflot has a small fleet. I also believe Domodedovo Airlines has IL 96-300's. It will be a shame not to see Russian designs flying.

User currently offlineHjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 887 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5971 times:

what are the main differences between Russian and western aircraft? Is it technology, or efficiency, or something else. Why are they not used. I have heard the Russian engineering methods are sort of revered around the world, and that Russian jets, although not fuel efficient, are very ingenous and mechanically advanced? I think that Russian aircraft manufacturers need to build an aircraft that has similar attributes to that of Boeing and Airbus, but because of lower production cost sell them for less. It seems that a L.C. carrier could see this as a good proposition.


LH 442
User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5951 times:

Quoting Georgiabill (Thread starter):
What is the future of commercial airliner developement in Russia?

Was there ever one....???


User currently offlineDarthRandall From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 302 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5947 times:

Personally, I would love to see the Il-96M get some attention, but in a world with the A350 and the 787 on the market, I don't imagine a Russian 350 seater will even get a glance. Hopefully Tupolev and Ilyushin will either find a niche to fill like the 100 seat market that Airbus and Boeing seem to be ignoring or do like PlaneSmart said and establish a working relationship with one or both of the big two.


Ninjas can kill anyone they want! Ninjas cut off heads all the time and don't even think twice about it.
User currently offlineN77014 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5903 times:

QUOTE:what are the main differences between Russian and western aircraft? Is it technology, or efficiency, or something else. Why are they not used. I have heard the Russian engineering methods are sort of revered around the world, and that Russian jets, although not fuel efficient, are very ingenous and mechanically advanced? I think that Russian aircraft manufacturers need to build an aircraft that has similar attributes to that of Boeing and Airbus, but because of lower production cost sell them for less. It seems that a L.C. carrier could see this as a good proposition.



1-Product support. Airlines want a product that can be supplied with critical parts worldwide on short notice. Russian manufacturers don't do this as well as western manufacturers.

2-Technology. Russian manufacturers are behind the curve, particularly in engine technology, electronics, use of composites, and manufacturing techniques.

3-Client input. Boeing put much toward getting potential airline customers involved in B777 design process. Unheard of in Russia.


User currently offlineIntothinair From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 392 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5863 times:

I miss those Russian jets.
The TU154 is simply amazing when you're in it, it takes off like a rocket.
Also from the outside they look very good, and the sound that they make, simply stunning. It's a joy to be in one of them.
Let's hope they will fly for years to come.

Cheers, Konstantin G

[Edited 2005-04-24 11:34:25]

User currently offlineNomadic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5728 times:

It is a shame that Russian airliners never caught on in the West. We all know the reasons.

Russian aircraft have such personality inside and out.

I have flown quite a few times between St. Petersburg and Moscow on Pulkovo Aviation's IL-86s. The built in air-stairs are great. I love steppig out of the shuttle bus next to those Kuznetzov engines. The the lower deck storage areas for carry-on items are a terrific idea. And on what other jet airliners would you expect to find stair hand-rails made of wood?!

Nomadic


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5712 times:

TU 204 should be a great plane for cargo and charter airlines.
Truth is that system-support issues might be the main stepping stone preventing sales into the western world.Russian aviation-engineering has not much to learn from europeans or americans exept engine-technology and eventually avionics.Russian planes are sturdy and rubust but lack acceptance from european operators due to unproven fleet-experience and unjustified bad press.I have used many different types of russian bult aircraft and never felt unsafe.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineJohnA From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5675 times:

Maybe the future's with Boeing:

Check out this reprint from Novosti:

http://www.aviatsiya.ru/forums/viewtopic.php?t=422

[Edited 2005-04-24 21:05:25]


Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.
User currently offlineJohnA From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5649 times:

See also this 2003 edition of Boeing's 'Frontiers' online magazine:

http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2003/october/i_atw.html



Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.
User currently offlineLevg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5542 times:

Imagine seeing this at your home airport:

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...earch/photo_search.php?id=00002047

I kind of doubt that AC passangers would like to see "Tupolev 154" printed in their tickets. I, however, might be wrong so don't judge so harshly.



A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
User currently offlineJafa39 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5508 times:

ECO-Airlines of Australia are buying Yak 42D's.

User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5495 times:

I changed planes in zurich once and our plane had cargo problems so we were just sitting in the plane at the gate for about 20 minutes. The plane next to our plane was an Albanian Airlines plane I believe it was a Tupolev and it was a pretty good size plane. That was the first time that I've seen a russian jet. Looked very old and tired and the tail section was very dirty with exhaust. Nothing against russian planes but I just said to myself thank god I am not in that thing. I have actually heard that they have a good ride and are solid.

User currently offlineJafa39 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5352 times:

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 15):
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...earch/photo_search.php?id=00002047

Crazy site mate, love it!


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5336 times:

Quoting Intothinair (Reply 10):
The TU154 is simply amazing when you're in it, it takes off like a rocket.
Also from the outside they look very good, and the sound that they make, simply stunning. It's a joy to be in one of them.

Absolutely agree. I used to fly on Malev 154s between LHR and BUD in the mid 90s and the performance of those aircraft on takeoff never failed to impress. Everyone talks about the 757 in that respect, but the 154 is just as impressive.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineAR1300 From Argentina, joined Feb 2005, 1740 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5343 times:

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 2):
the only way for Russian aircraft to be popular is for a western company to order some.

There is already one, but it didn't help a lot...

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Photo © Jussi Kettunen



Mike



They don't call us Continental for nothing.
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