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Fewer Windows On The A380 - Bad For Passengers?  
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1091 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 20 hours ago) and read 11751 times:

I have come across a thread about A380 windows where Corey07850 points out that:

"A346 has 88 windows total (regardless if they are for the lavs or anything), while the A380 has 58 on the bottom and 52 on top..."

The A346 is slightly longer but still... The difference (30 windows = 50% more windows on the fuselage of the A340!) is big enough to make the interior less comfortable for passengers. I have also watched the TLC documentary and the A380 interior does look more claustrophobic than regular airliners. Why would Airbus decide to have fewer windows than usual in "the flagship of the 21st century" (as they put it)?

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5641 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (9 years 18 hours ago) and read 11635 times:

And this after Boeing announces that the 787 will have the largest windows to ever be installed in a commercial jetliner.

User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 2, posted (9 years 18 hours ago) and read 11610 times:

Was this a way for Airbus to cut weight of the A380?


ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1091 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 18 hours ago) and read 11608 times:

True but the larger windows will only be larger in height. So it does not really help in terms of number on windows on the length of the aircraft.

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 18 hours ago) and read 11573 times:

Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):
"the flagship of the 21st century"

"A Cattle Car by any other name is still a Cattle Car."


User currently offlineSean377 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1225 posts, RR: 42
Reply 5, posted (9 years 18 hours ago) and read 11569 times:

These are what you call windows:-


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Photo © Willem Honders




Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1091 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 17 hours ago) and read 11541 times:

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 5):
These are what you call windows:-

Indeed!


User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2312 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 17 hours ago) and read 11473 times:

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 5):
These are what you call windows:-

At 35,000 feet I call them cabin depressurization portals. Big grin



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineSean377 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1225 posts, RR: 42
Reply 8, posted (9 years 17 hours ago) and read 11448 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 7):
At 35,000 feet I call them cabin depressurization portals. Big grin

Wouldn't it be great if you could wind them down! Under 10,000ft of course!



Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
User currently offlineOD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1924 posts, RR: 33
Reply 9, posted (9 years 16 hours ago) and read 11346 times:

It's not like they are planning to grow trees in there!

User currently offlineComeAndGo From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 16 hours ago) and read 11335 times:

Like swiss cheese. If you put to many holes in them you have no more cheese.

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 11, posted (9 years 13 hours ago) and read 11112 times:

The additional structural weight needed for each window increases as fuselage diameter increases. It is rumored that Airbus reduced the WhaleJet's window count in order to meet performance guarantees. Can anyone confirm?

User currently offlineFlyingbronco05 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3840 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 hours ago) and read 10951 times:

Just another reason to never fly the A380.

I dont want to be stuck in the middle of a plane that large and not be able to see out.



Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 hours ago) and read 10208 times:

Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):

"A346 has 88 windows total (regardless if they are for the lavs or anything), while the A380 has 58 on the bottom and 52 on top..."

The A346 is slightly longer but still... The difference (30 windows = 50% more windows on the fuselage of the A340!) is big enough to make the interior less comfortable for passengers. I have also watched the TLC documentary and the A380 interior does look more claustrophobic than regular airliners. Why would Airbus decide to have fewer windows than usual in "the flagship of the 21st century" (as they put it)?

Sorry but your math is off. The 346 has a longer fuselage and more pax on it's deck than on the "equivalent" upper deck of the 388.

A346 "typical three class" -372 pax with 88 windows or 4.23 pax/window.
A388 "typical three class" - 555 pax with 110 windows or 5.05 pax/window

But wait! the 388 has 2 more seats abreast on the main deck so the number of pax per window will naturally be higher. I can't be bothered to do the math but I think you'll find that there are about as many windows per row as on the 346. Ergo, no difference.

Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Reply 12):
Just another reason to never fly the A380.

I dont want to be stuck in the middle of a plane that large and not be able to see out.

The main deck will have the same number of seats abreast as the 747, so no difference there, but I agree sitting in the middle of a wide deck with 10 abreast is rather icky...



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 hours ago) and read 10139 times:

Flyingbronco,

Yawn, yawn and yawn again.... the I dont like the A380 for this that and the other reason is very boring.


User currently offlineTackleberry970 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 hours ago) and read 10117 times:

With the extent of the upper structure, along with the load forces a full compliment of passengers will bring to that structure, you must be able to support and distribute the load across the structure down into the "foundation" of the airframe.

It is likely that to accomplish this, the engineers had to increase the size of the structural ribs, which are in the spaces between the windows, thus reducing the number of windows that could be placed in the fixed length of the airframe.

Seeing as the 346 isn't a double deck aircraft, that would enable the similar structural design as any other airframe, thus allowing for more windows to be placed in the longer length due to the conventional sizing of the structural ribs.

tac.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 hours ago) and read 10070 times:

I still contend that there are about as many windows per row as on the 346. Now if someone wants to count the rows in the sample seatmaps (on http://www.airliners.net/info and http://www.airbus.com/product/a380_cabin_layouts.asp) and get back to us  Wink

Windows per row is the important metric, not windows per seat. Since the number of pax abreast is different, you have to compare that way.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1091 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 hours ago) and read 10032 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 13):
Sorry but your math is off. The 346 has a longer fuselage and more pax on it's deck than on the "equivalent" upper deck of the 388.

A346 "typical three class" -372 pax with 88 windows or 4.23 pax/window.
A388 "typical three class" - 555 pax with 110 windows or 5.05 pax/window

No, my math is not off. I assume that the overall feeling you get in a cabin relative to windows depends on their size and how many there are for a given length. It does not depend on how many passengers there are.

I know that if you are in a window seat on a boeing 747, you can see through 2 or three windows depending on your luck. It looks like on the A380, it's going to be 1 or 2 with a lot of "wall" in the middle.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 hours ago) and read 9763 times:

Quoting A380900 (Reply 17):
No, my math is not off. I assume that the overall feeling you get in a cabin relative to windows depends on their size and how many there are for a given length. It does not depend on how many passengers there are.

I still think you're off on the math. Of course the relation is windows to length, but I haven't seen a figure on that in this thread, for any plane. The 388 is shorter than the 346, and the usable space per deck is even shorter given the staircases.

Each deck on the 388 has fewer rows than the deck on the 346, so it needs fewer windows. BTW how many windows and pax are there on the main deck of a 744? That would be a more accurate comparison to the main deck of a 388 since they have the same number of seats abreast.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineC680 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 580 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 hours ago) and read 9651 times:

The more I read about the A380 the more I think Airbus is right: This plane is perfect for China.

It really was made to move a large number of people. Reduce the seat pitch to domestic Chinese standards, throw in an extra row of seats and crank up the number of available seats for sale.

All this talk about showers and shops is a bunch of garbage. Most operators will fill this puppy with seats, and they dont care how many windows the thing has.

Exception to the rule may be Virgin - but I base that on what Virgin has already done (put the Bar in Upper Class) - I hope Branson puts in a real size Bar and ADA size Lavs. Virgin could hand out "Mile High Club" cards on landing. Now *that's* worthy of "Upper" Class!!!  Big grin



My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 hours ago) and read 9582 times:
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The window spacing on the A380 looks the same as for any other Airbus. Airbus windows are already slightly larger with slightly greater spacing between them than on most Boeing models.

http://www.silverstatenews.com/A380_Debut_01182005/mini-cabin2.jpg

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineCpsarras From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 hours ago) and read 9413 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 1):
And this after Boeing announces that the 787 will have the largest windows to ever be installed in a commercial jetliner.

I miss the Caravelle windows ... To me they were the most awesome windows put on a jetliner  Smile

Christos



- To Fly Is To Be Free -
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4732 posts, RR: 45
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 hours ago) and read 9356 times:

One thing I did notice is that similar to Most Airbus products, you have very little head room on the A380, at least on the upper deck....gonna get claustrophobic..l


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineOlympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 hours ago) and read 9301 times:

This topic is ridiculous. A Boeing 707-420 had about 75 windows on one side of the fuselage. The DC-8 series 50, approximately the same length as the 707, had about 25 windows. I don't remember anyone ever saying that the DC-8 was more claustrophobic than the B707.

User currently offlineMorvious From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 706 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 hours ago) and read 9109 times:

Quoting A380900 (Reply 17):
No, my math is not off. I assume that the overall feeling you get in a cabin relative to windows depends on their size and how many there are for a given length. It does not depend on how many passengers there are.

The difference to the cabin length between a A346 and A380 is 10 meters. Not a very good way to compare things!

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 16):
I still contend that there are about as many windows per row as on the 346. Now if someone wants to count the rows in the sample seatmaps (on http://www.airliners.net/info and http://www.airbus.com/product/a380_cabin_layouts.asp) and get back to us

Windows per row is the important metric, not windows per seat. Since the number of pax abreast is different, you have to compare that way.

This is in my oppinion the correct way to calculate! But then you have to calculate it in classes, not all in one. So count every window in 1st class, and count the rows, then in buisness etc.

In your case, windows per row, this would mean:

A346, 50 rows in a 3 clas cabin layout, 380 passengers.
88 windows / 50 rows = 1,76 window/row

A388, 39 rows downstairs, 28 upstairs in a 3 class cabin layout, 555 passengers.
58 windows / 39 rows = 1.48 window/row downstairs
52 windows / 28 rows = 1.86 window/row upstairs.
110 windows / 67 rows = 1.64 window/row avarage.

Still way above 1 window / row both airplanes and nothing to worry about.

But the A380 has more 1st class and buisness class seats, that take more windows/row.

Why Am I replying anyway Big grin..



have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
25 Post contains images Leelaw : Weren't the DC-8's windows much larger than the 707's? [Edited 2005-04-24 18:47:59]
26 CTHEWORLD : Wrong...Boeing narrow body a/c have windows that are 20% larger than Airbus narrow body and the 777 currently has the largest passenger windows in pr
27 Post contains images Trent900 : So you won't/don't fly in 747's either? If your sitting in the middle of any 2 isle aircraft, how easy is it to look out a window anyways? D.
28 NORTHSEATIGER : At the end of the day it's windows, Technically the aircraft is for going from to A to B and on this sort 90% of the journey will probably be over sea
29 CORULEZ05 : I think it is fine. Especially for those on the upper deck, that way they don't realize how freaking high off the ground they are while taxi and reali
30 Galapagapop : But what eventually happened to McDonnel Douglas? I don't see anything new out of LGB except the occastional B717. That upper deck simply looks dread
31 Post contains images Starlionblue : Actually about as much space as on the 346. Remember that you will be sitting down
32 CrossChecked : I agree. The Airbus A380 program should be scrapped. Ney, it should never have been launched. Any airliner with fewer windows than passengers is a no-
33 Adria : Check the seating plans of Emirates, Singapore or Virgin before you make such an statement You'll have more head room than on the 744 upper deck or D
34 Danny : Your math is off and your theory funny. Number of windows per pax is important? Then single engine props beat everything.[Edited 2005-04-24 19:24:48]
35 Post contains images Udo : Hmmmm, "Dreamliner" comes to mind... And another rumour has been born...if I invented the theory that Airbus have replaced pilot seats with inflatabl
36 Leelaw : Takes one to know one.
37 Post contains images Boeing73G : Simply look at the picture. It's just slightly larger windows spaced out. Oh, and is Airbus really taking an idea from Boeing? Look at the overhead b
38 Gary2880 : does that come before or after 'its not american' on your list?
39 AC787 : What do you mean? AC787
40 CORULEZ05 : So the size of the windows on an airplane is taken into consideration when choosing what plane to fly on? That's a first to me. I mean, if the window
41 Udo : No, just some common sense. Regards Udo
42 Post contains images SATX : So what you're essentially saying is that 'ignorance is bliss?' Well, you'd be the one to know. LOL! Short and to-the-point; I love it!
43 Post contains images Theredbaron : This thread proves once again. that some guys really need to get a life...
44 CORULEZ05 : While I see how my comment could be misinterpreted, I don't understand the personal attack. That was a joke by the way. I think it would be obvious t
45 ORDagent : Is everybody a sexually frustrated 13 year old on this thread? When push comes to shove the majority of us will fly on the cheapest seat available. W
46 A380900 : Well, don't take part in it then. What if it interests people with a lesser intellect? Be tolerant![Edited 2005-04-25 04:59:29]
47 Post contains images SATX : I didn't see that it was a joke, sorry. Consider the attack disbanded.
48 Post contains images Olympus69 : I happen to enjoy ridiculous topics once in a while Yes they were, but spaced two frames apart. This meant that when airlines reduced seat spacing to
49 Post contains images Mark_D. : Leelaw Takes one to know one. On your own part, maybe especially so I hope the Boeing autoclave and tape-machine folks are doing okay with the 2nd 787
50 Post contains images LO231 : Weren't the windows on the Concorde smaller than the rest?? I'd still commit a murder to fly on one.......
51 ComeAndGo : The Concorde flew at a higher altitude. The window equation comes down to material strength. How thick is the aluminum sheet used on the fuselage. The
52 Post contains images Mrocktor : Really?
53 Post contains images Aviopic : Thanks for the plug Sean. Never expected to see this particular image back in an A380 thread. Of course in the un-pressurized period windows could be
54 PA110 : My sentiments exactly!!! Afterall, everyone knows that in order to be commercially successful, every multi-billion dollar aircraft program must be de
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