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Mexicana 727-264's W/elevated Top Rear Fuselage  
User currently offlineWesternDC1010 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 329 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8581 times:

I've noticed over the years that certain Mexicana's Boeing 727-264's had slightly elevated portions of their top rear fuselages. This raised area began above the rear over-wing emergency exit and ended just before the number 2 engine inlet and where the registration ended on these aircraft when painted in the 'Goden-Aztec' livery of he 1970's and 80's.


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Photo © Eduardo Perusquia - Aviation Photography of Mexico
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Photo © AirNikon




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Photo © Mick Bajcar
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Photo © Bob Holland




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Photo © Howard Chaloner



Was this raised area used for any certain aerials/antennas? Why didn't we see this with other Boeing 727-200's?

- Ron
Western DC-10-10


Western Airlines - The Only Way To Fly
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePecevanne From Mexico, joined Jun 2004, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8474 times:

If I have enough memory this area was designed to hold the NDB antennas
(Already I do not have any descriptions manuals for the 727)
regards


User currently offlineDan2002 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 2055 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8356 times:

I think it had to do with the re-routing of some of the systems for the JATO bottles that some of them had.


-Dan



A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
User currently offlineIDAWA From Italy, joined Aug 2004, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8349 times:

Quoting Dan2002 (Reply 2):
the JATO bottles that some of them had.

Are you talking about the boosters to be used in case of an engine failure at full load at MEX (hot & high) ?

I-DAWA



Flown on: 319, 320, 321, 340, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, DC9, D10, M11, M80, 146, EM2, BEH, CRJ, DH8, L4T.
User currently offlineDan2002 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 2055 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8309 times:

Quoting IDAWA (Reply 3):
Are you talking about the boosters to be used in case of an engine failure at full load at MEX (hot & high) ?

Yea, the rockets. Read the comment for this pic:
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Photo © Marlo Plate - Iberian Spotters



-Dan



A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8231 times:

Quoting Dan2002 (Reply 2):
think it had to do with the re-routing of some of the systems for the JATO bottles that some of them had.

Yep, that´s part of the answer, let me ask maintenance if they have something about it, but actually was for the JATO equipped planes



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineLnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1608 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8220 times:

Are there any pictoral examples of the jet-assisted take off option on these planes?

The old shots of the Mexicana planes don't really show anything other than a normal 727 with the "moved" parts on top (the raised part).. is there any other things we should be looking at?

Thanks!

1011yyz



Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
User currently offlineDan2002 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 2055 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8138 times:

http://www.airdisaster.com/user-uploads/727Jatotakeoff.jpg



-Dan



A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2445 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8094 times:

Thanks for the photo Dan. I learned something new about the 727.... Wink


Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7507 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8074 times:

Wow! Like a 727 wasn't loud enough !  Smile  Smile


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineWesternDC1010 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 329 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8017 times:

Thanks for the clarification! That elevated spine on these aircraft have puzzled me for years. And the photo of the Mexicana 727-264 using this JATO feature is amazing!

- Ron
Western DC-10-10



Western Airlines - The Only Way To Fly
User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7744 times:

Well one learns something new every day.

Twenty-two years of flying for a living and i had never heard of this.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineConcentriq From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 368 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 5 days ago) and read 7260 times:

Wow. this is indeed very interesting!!! Thanks for bringing this up and explaining it. So. if i understand this correctly, B727's equipped with JATO units would have an extra "nozzles" like in the image below?

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Photo © Dariusz Jezewski


i searched DB, and didnt find any photos with good details of this. does anyone have anything that will show more detail? (I hope Dan didnt take any offence at that  Smile. Great shot, but i would love to see some more detail)



Mobilis In Mobili
User currently offlineRyanAFAMSP From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7111 times:

Excellent work everyone! Amidst the union busters, the NW DC-9 bashers, and the dirty Air France plane crowd, there are some people who really know their stuff.

So it is hard to tell from the photo - but where does the JATO system fire from? Are they solid rockets, or is it a liquid fueled rocket engine? How often would Mexicana use this system? It sounds SO expensive, loud, and inefficient! What a novelty!

If anyone else has more details, let us know.

Ryan


User currently offlineASAFA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 171 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6880 times:

Quoting RyanAFAMSP (Reply 13):
Excellent work everyone! Amidst the union busters, the NW DC-9 bashers, and the dirty Air France plane crowd, there are some people who really know their stuff.

My thoughts exactly.

Amazing that type of system was installed on commercial aircraft. Like IDAWA said they were probably for emergency use only and would be used in the event of engine failure that would result in a crash. I am sure they didn't just turn them on for kicks (although that would be quite the takeoff experience!).

Cheers
ASAFA



Prepare for Takeoff
User currently offlineHirisk From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 223 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6346 times:

THATS why i love this site!i would have never known that little nugget of info!instead of take-off,we get blast-off bigthumbsup  biggrin  eyepopping 


happy contrails
User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1610 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6277 times:
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The Swearingen (Fairchild) Metro was designed with a JATO bottle in the tail for engine failure situations. I think few ever had it installed in service - I noticed that it was placarded as not installed in the one Metro cockpit I've been in. I have also noticed that most pictures of the Metros in the a.net database show a nav light back where the JATO bottle used to be installed.

User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6238 times:

I've heard of them. According to some seasoned aviation relatives of mine, MX used this JATO system often at some point in time, mostly when they received the first 200s. In my years of spotting at MEX I never saw on single Jet Assisted Take Off. I wonder if it had to do with some engine upgrade or something? I'm eager to know.

User currently offlineAV757 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6150 times:
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No the JATO's are not used for normal take-off with 3 operating engines, they were only used in an emergency with the maximum allowed take-off gross weight only after the loss of an engine during take-off at V1 between the first segment and second segment climb so as to have the extra power during gear retraction after liftoff to comply second segment obstacle climb limitations, so as to not penalize payload on high altitude, high temperature airports as MEX.

Regards:
AV757


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6130 times:

Proves the Old Saying true:

You learn something new everyday, amazing stuff.

It's topics like this that bring me to A.Net at least once a day...



Delete this User
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5224 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6005 times:

For those interested, here a few other discussions related to topic!

Question About The Operations Of 727 With Rockets (by 727datacenter Jul 6 2001 in Civil Aviation)
727 With Afterburners! (by N9801F May 24 2004 in Civil Aviation)
727's At La Paz.... (by JETPILOT May 12 2001 in Tech Ops)
Booster Rockets On Civil Airliners (by D-AQUI Oct 17 2001 in Tech Ops)
RE: Rocket Assisted Take-offs On Civil Aircraft (by Aloges Aug 28 2003 in Tech Ops)
RE: DC9 With Jato Bottles? (by Air1727 Feb 9 2004 in Tech Ops)

Ricardo APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5964 times:

Quoting Dan2002 (Reply 7):

Amazing photo indeed. May I ask you where you found it?


User currently offlineHR001 From Honduras, joined Nov 2004, 303 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5791 times:

Found another one
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Photo © Greg Davis



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