Glom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2823 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7858 times:
Maybe they are referring to commercial successes. Of course Boeing only inherited the DC-8, -9 and -10 when they acquired MD. They didn't mention the 717 so I guess they're really 11 for 12. That's marketing for ya.
N844AA From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7836 times:
Quoting Glom (Reply 3): Maybe they are referring to commercial successes. Of course Boeing only inherited the DC-8, -9 and -10 when they acquired MD. They didn't mention the 717 so I guess they're really 11 for 12. That's marketing for ya.
Also note they didn't mention the MD-11, so maybe they're including the DC-10 and derivatives as one, big successful family. Plausible since they didn't include the MD-95/717 on that list, or any of the other (more successful) DC-9 derivatives.
Quoting KL911 (Reply 4): Why is that something to be happy about?
A little nationalism when it comes to one's own country's aerospace manufacturing prowess isn't anything to worry about, particularly when that country is also importing at a dangerous rate.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
Japanese - 35 percent
Vought and Alenia - 26 percent
Boeing partners - 35 percent
Other - 4 percent
US and non-US content on the 787
Roughly 75 percent US
Roughly 25 percent non-US
The Japanese have 35% of the airframe program. Alenia has half the 26% of the Vought-Alenia share. That doesn't even get into things like Rolls engines and the vast majority of Trent contents are UK sourced, in fact the Japanese share of Trent 1000 is higher than what RR USA will be supplying!
Its possible with some daft accountancy that the 75% pertains only to the $ value including final assembly but if you are talking the actual components, at least a half if not more will be from non US sources even if some of those non US sources use US subcontractors (which for the Japanese, Italians and Brits will be minimal)
Cloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7443 times:
You can easily doctor these kind of statistics. If you want to make the 787 look more like a US plane - you can count a given part assembled in the USA as 100% American. If you are giving a speach in Europe and want to make the plane look less American, you can break that statistic down a bit. Suppose 1 subassembly of that part was made in the US and three in Europe. Then that same part can be said to be 75% European. You can drill down all the way to the farms, forests and mines if you have to in order to get the results you want.
An honest accounting would probably use some sort of "Value Added" system. This kind of system would count how much value each plant in each country adds to the material that makes up the airframe. That would be incredibly complicated to figure out, but who needs to anyway? The numbers are not meant to give an honest picture of what is going on - so it is best to just keep changing things until you get a number that sounds good to the intended audience.
This is not meant to slam Boeing. Corporations and activist groups all over the world do the very same thing. Everybody, or nearly everybody, who has an agenda to push doctors statistics.
Trex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 5297 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5678 times:
Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 13): Even if Japan does an assembly, the parts may come from say.. Denver as an example.
well, the reason Boeing and the Japanese consortium still have no final contract and the Japanese govt has not released funding for MHI, KHI and FHI is because Boeing wants the Japanese to subcontract out their share of work to other Asian suppliers in korea, China , Taiwan, Malaysia etc. If the prime subcontractors are going to be sending work anywhere it isn't to the US.
Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 7): Just because Alenia has half the share, it doesn't mean that half the work is being done in Italy
not so. see the AWST article last year on Vought-Alenias share of the work, Alenia fabricates the parts in Italy, sends it to the new Vought plant in the Carolinas for assembly and the final sections are shipped to Boeing and Alenia is guaranteed half the value of the work with nearly all of their portion to be done in Italy.
The reality is that all new major aerospace projects are multinational, it gives the manufacturer lower costs and gains them market share (you think the Japanese have been ordering 767s , 777s and now 787s simply because its the best product on the market??? If you do, you have no clue how Tokyo works!). For Boeing to say 3/4 is American is stretching it though.