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GE Wins 747Adv Power  
User currently offlineQFA001 From Australia, joined May 2000, 673 posts, RR: 54
Posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9294 times:

The sole supplier deal for the 747Adv has gone to GE.

Click here

118 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9262 times:

Not very good. That limits airlines' choices.

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9221 times:

Why do they need to sign an exclusive deal anyway?

Any chances for RR and P&W? I am sure they can if there is a large demand in the future.


User currently offlinePhollingsworth From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 825 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9194 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 2):
Why do they need to sign an exclusive deal anyway?

Money, Money, Money! My guess is that, like the 772LR/773ER program GE has ponied up development money for the aircraft. That means they are a risk sharing partner. In exchange for that GE would most surely want a guarantee of a market.


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9090 times:

If the 747Adv uses bleedless systems (which I hear they might), then PW would be out of the running anyway. Phollingsworth is correct. When there are 3 choices for an airplane type, none of the engine makers generate much profit and have complained. The development and certification costs are very expensive.

If Boeing is signing deals with suppliers that means an operator has probably put money down to buy 747Adv or is at their ATM taking out the cash right now.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9072 times:

OK if an airline wants to place a large order for the B 747 Advanced using P and W or RR engines, will Boeing say yes? I suppose so right? Coz they wanna make $ too.

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9026 times:

Quoting N79969 (Reply 4):
If the 747Adv uses bleedless systems (which I hear they might)

I'd like to hear more about this... because it really doesn't fit into their "minimal change" cost strategy.

Bleedless systems is a huge update to the plane.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 5):
OK if an airline wants to place a large order for the B 747 Advanced using P and W or RR engines, will Boeing say yes?

No. There is an exclusivity agreement in place. Even if there weren't, both PW and RR would have to design an engine for the plane, and neither would have any chance of making all that money back.

My guess is both RR and GE demanded exclusivity, and PW passed on participating since they have no engine.

N


User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9002 times:

I can't believe that GE has Boeing by the balls to this degree. They are taking customer choices away from them.

I just have a very bad feeling that we have witnessed the beginning of the death of the 747. If this is the way it ends, I will hate Boeing for it. Of course, I hope I am way of base.


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8983 times:

The issue of a sole supplier in powerplants is nothing new. Just a quick look at the market gives you a reason why.

Boeing estimates there is a market of 300 max. For all the engine mfgrs to provide an engine choice is commercial suicide. In addition, Boeing would have to design a pylon and certify each powerplant, thus adding cost to the aircraft.

The 777 was the precursor of this agreement. It's nothing new at all.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 5):
OK if an airline wants to place a large order for the B 747 Advanced using P and W or RR engines, will Boeing say yes? I suppose so right? Coz they wanna make $ too.

Simple answer.....NO!


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8735 times:

Well I am sure they want to sell more than 300 if they can.

Also I don't think Boeing will shut themselves out from a huge order simply because of engine deals.


User currently offlineN60659 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 654 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8713 times:

I wonder how this is going to play with BA and CX which were both interested in the 744 Adv, but their fleets are predominantly RR powered.


Nec Dextrorsum Nec Sinistrorsum
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8664 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 9):
Also I don't think Boeing will shut themselves out from a huge order simply because of engine deals

Take a look at the 777-300ER and 777-200LR. Boeing refused any other engine types on that aircraft. Believe me, it gets very expensive to certify various engine types on airframes. The increased costs have to be passed along to someone.

The figure of 300 aircraft is Boeing's estimate of the market. Take that up with them!


User currently offlineIowa744fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8652 times:

N60659,

I was wondering the exact same thing. I keep hearing how BA, CX, QF, LH, and JL are to be among the airlines most interested and whom would order right away....and the first three operate RR powered 744s. Then again, with decent sized orders, others have added engine types recently so who knows. Perhaps this will help GE in the 787 market if airlines want to operate both the 787 and the 747Adv.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8644 times:

Then why did they offer 3 engine types for the B 777-200/200ER as well as the B 747-400?

User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8630 times:

Qantas switched from RR to GE on their latest batch of 744 and 744ER if I am not mistaken.

User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8621 times:

You will have to ask Boeing.

However, if you look at the order pool and how small it is, there costs to develop and certify each engine isn't worth it. You have a case where engine companies can't make money by selling the engines. If Boeing sticks with one engine type, in the long run it's cheaper for the customer.

With the advent of "power by the hour" having a "non standard" engine type isn't the big deal it used to be years ago.


User currently offlineN60659 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 654 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 8508 times:

There seems to be a rather subtle yet significant shift in the way Boeing has approached selecting engine suppliers in the last few years especially with the 773ER, 772LR, 787 and the 744Adv. Where multiple suppliers are tapped (like on the 787), they have gone to bleedless systems which allows the use of either the GEnx or the Trent 1000. In the case of the 772LR and 773ER, they have exclusivity arrangements with GE and GE also shared in development costs. And now the 744Adv has a single engine supplier.

For the latter three programs, the benefit derived from the success of a program is tangible - if the program succeeds, GE partakes in the profits as well. In the past, the engine manufacturers were somewhat isolated from success or failure of a program. With this new philosophy, Boeing and GE have to truly participate as a team as the stakes are higher for all involved parties.

For the 787 program, engine manufacturers have to vie that much harder for orders, and have to either meet or beat gurantees otherwise the airlines will be able to switch engine suppliers at any point in the fleets lifecycle.

Over and above all this, the after market has gotten significantly more streamlined. One does not have to weigh the possibility of inducting an airframe/engine combination that is not uniform with the airlines' current fleet.

I think many of us have focussed so much on the Airbus vs. Boeing saga. However, there is a bigger tussle which includes the engine manufacturers as well and currently, GE has a leg up over RR and PW. Please feel free to comment about this. I would love to hear what you think.



Nec Dextrorsum Nec Sinistrorsum
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 8401 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 9):
Also I don't think Boeing will shut themselves out from a huge order simply because of engine deals.

Its an exclusivity agreement. They have no choice.

You're missing the point - neither RR nor PW have an engine for the plane. They would have to develop one.

Its the ENGINE manufacturers that demand exclusivity. They need to know they'll recoup their costs of development, and, for a niche market plane like this they just won't.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 13):
Then why did they offer 3 engine types for the B 777-200/200ER as well as the B 747-400?

Those are huge market airplanes, with a very large forecast. Arguably, there wasn't room for all 3 on the 777 as GE was losing money for a long time on the project.

The 747A will struggle to sell 300 frames. Its not worth it to have another engine manufacturer. That manufacturer would lose money by offering an engine.

N


User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8295 times:

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 11):
The increased costs have to be passed along to someone.

No doubt. I once inquired Dornier about certifying the 328Jet with Primus Epic when they launched the 728 family with Epic. They had already looked into that and the potential of a GE engine for supplier (with the 306B problems) and parts commonality across the entire line. The Avionics was $13 million, Engines $17 million (Closest engine is on the Falcon 2000)- Just for the certification process. It may not seem like much, and an Airline may have considered such an expense for the Avionics but damn...


User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8247 times:

Quoting N60659 (Reply 10):
I wonder how this is going to play with BA and CX which were both interested in the 744 Adv, but their fleets are predominantly RR powered.

Cathay are a different operation, but BA isn't as clear-cut as you might think.

They originally considered ordering the 744 with CF6 engines as there was some movement inside British Airways towards the GE product. At the time this was attributed to BCal people who had been brought into BA, and BCal was a GE loyalist to a certain extent.

They also have the GE90 powered 772 fleet, which has put its early reliability issues behind it.

Willie Walsh is another factor. The new CEO is another one who has waved the company chequebook at GE in the past when he was with EI.

GE engines are well supported in the United Kingdom, so assuming BA will always want to buy a Rolls product isn't entirely correct.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 17):
The 747A will struggle to sell 300 frames. Its not worth it to have another engine manufacturer. That manufacturer would lose money by offering an engine.

If Boeing go with the GENX engine, I wonder if the carryover from the 787 might happen? Interface compatability with the Rolls Trent 1000?


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8230 times:

The GEnx on the 747A will be very different than the one for the 787.... clipped blades and bleed air. Any RR engine would have to be the same, so I don't think that there will be much in the way of compatibility.

N


User currently offlineRRFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8221 times:

This is going to be a HUGE blow to the Adv program.
BA will certainly now not go for the 747Adv. They are already under pressure from the UK government to support industry. What this has done is now given the BA 767 replacement to RR for 787's and the 747 replacement will now be Airbus A380/A350 mix.

I like Boeing aircraft, but this ability to take away choice is literally leaving airlines with no other choice but to switch. Just look at the 7E7, it clearly shows the airlines prefer RR. When the 777 came out it clearly showed the airlines preferred RR followed by P&W.

GE is taking the market not by technology, but by cash! This seems to be a company scared of competition!


User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8195 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 20):
The GEnx on the 747A will be very different than the one for the 787.... clipped blades and bleed air. Any RR engine would have to be the same, so I don't think that there will be much in the way of compatibility.

Interesting to think about though.

I'll stick my 'expert'  duck  opinion in here and say I don't think the 747A is a good project for Boeing. On the strength of their past projects with the 753 and 764, looking at a stretch of the 777 to a 774 might be a better use of their development budget in the short term.

Both the 753 and 764 were money losers which came to market way too late in the lifecycle of the base product. Stretching the 773 again could be a much more lucrative line than spending what would be effectively a complete redesign and testing budget on the 747.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8173 times:

Quoting RRFan (Reply 21):
What this has done is now given the BA 767 replacement to RR for 787's and the 747 replacement will now be Airbus A380/A350 mix.

Why would 787s replace the 767, but an A350 be in with the 744 replacement?

If anything, an A380/777 mix will replace the 744.

N


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8189 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8148 times:

I believe this agreement simply pushes the 747ADV closer to board approval. I also have a feeling that there will be more than 300 sales over the years. Airlines are going to buy a size of plane to meet the market. Just as they will not buy a 777 if the 787 is the size they need they are not going to buy a 380 if they only need a 747 sized plane. Both the 380 and 747ADV will do well because they both are the best matches for their respective size ranges. I believe GE recognized this and were very smart to get the exclusive deal with Boeing.

25 BoeingBus : NO - 777NG has been doign really well w/o RR or PW. Well, if they want the 773ER, 787 and the 747Adv in their fleet plans, which they will have no ch
26 WAH64D : Ah well, thats the 747Adv flushed down the pan. What the h*** are Boeing thinking when the worlds biggest 747 operator (BA) has an entirely RR fleet.
27 Atmx2000 : I don't see how you can say that given there have been so few engine selections for the 787. And the PW and RR engine selections for the early 777s w
28 TinPusher007 : Why does everyone bitch about Boeing giving sole supplier contracts to GE for their aircraft. No one complained that Airbus gave RR sole supplier stat
29 MidnightMike : What was Boeing thinking? Business, the 747Advanced is going to serve the niche market, Boeing is planning on selling around 300 of the aircraft, har
30 Boeing Nut : The 747ADV program has the potential of replacing every 747 in existance today. That's 1,100+ hundred units folks. Of course it won't but if it even r
31 Airzim : How come no one complains about the fact that if you want to buy a 737 you have only one engine choice?
32 United Airline : Then BA will not order the B 777-300ER too since it is GE powered only. If they need an aircraft, they will order it regardless of engine deals. BA is
33 Gigneil : Not going to happen. Invariably, the A380, 777-300ER, and A340-600 will get much of this business. N
34 MidnightMike : Boeing is using the number of 300 747Advanced sales, not every single 747 operator will be replacing their 747 with the 747Advanced. 500 units is a n
35 Post contains images RRFan : BoeingBus haha - what are you smoking dude? obviously not the strong stuff you are on! p.s keep chearing for the 787 and 747 Adv, they are gonna need
36 N1120A : Actually, QF's 744ERs are CF6 powered. Only the CF6 and PW4062 are available on the 744ER, as there is no over 60,000 pound version of the RB211 The
37 WhiteHatter : QF could have bought into RR for that order, but the RB211 being offered wasn't suitable. The CF6 offering on the 744ER offered greater commonality w
38 N1120A : According to Boeing, only the PW4062 and CF6 are available for the 744ER
39 Boeing7E7 : And the point of keeping these lines open would be what? A new Jobs program???
40 WhiteHatter : As I said, the RB211 which was initially put forward was substantially different from existing engines so it never happened. The only airline which w
41 WAH64D : I really don't think they will. BA has stated many times in the past that they will not have any more aircraft with GE engines. The 777-200s were too
42 FriendlySkies : This is what I have never understood. You have two engines, lets say RB.211 and Trent 1000 or CF6 and GENx. These two pairs have NOTHING in common oth
43 MakeMinesLAX : I think the risk-sharing element is the key here, particularly when new technology (bleedless engines) is being introduced. There are plenty of other
44 MakeMinesLAX : Commonality (engines, cockpit) is certainly a viable argument when adding to a large existing fleet, but not so much for a new type or subtype. Face
45 WAH64D : Actually, a fair amount of non-core parts are interchangeable between the RB211 and the Trent. Notwithstanding Air Transat fitting an RB211 fuel syst
46 BoeingBus : Production lines closing and new product opening means PROGRESS! Airbus will have to follow suit or it will be left behind. Boeing is progressing to
47 NW747-400 : Will the new GE engines on the 747Adv offer FADEC? IIRC all 744's offered an EEC only to control engine overtemp (or did the 744ER offer a FADEC syste
48 Post contains images GQfluffy : Exactly the same thing that happened with the 777. I think the reason Boeing did pick GE (may have been said before) is that they already have had so
49 BoeingBus : But aren't most airliners outsourcing their maintenance where this becomes more of a non-issue and fuel savings and better product go right to the top
50 Lehpron : So I suppose Boeing is pushing forward with the 747A...why for the life of me I donno. Isn't that too small? With that and their CMO 2004, yes the re
51 A388 : I didn't even know the 747Adv was launched. When was this announced? Regards, A388
52 RRFan : BOEINGBUS Production lines closing and new product opening means PROGRESS! Airbus will have to follow suit or it will be left behind. They don't need
53 BoeingBus : Hey I never ever said that Boeing had a better product. Kudos to Airbus for its past success! it sure woke up Boeing.... didnt it? Does this make you
54 WhiteHatter : The GENx is not available on the 777. If it was then you might hear a loud crunch as the 777 goes off the end of the runway. Engine commonality for la
55 NW747-400 : RRFan...while your points are valid, I believe you are the one with the pride issues. Don't be so hard pressed to defend RR, they are a fine engine ma
56 RRFan : Appreciate it BoeingBus We'll call it a draw! at the end of the day they both make fanatstic aircraft past and present.
57 Post contains images Lightsaber : Good for GE, bad for RR. I agree with others that 747A sales will be lost due to a lack of a RR engine (sorry, I love Pratt, but outside of NW, who m
58 AirbusA6 : This seems a dangerous move by Boeing, when 2 of they're main targets (BA and CX) are heavy RR 747 users. Further, CX are also heavy Trent users on a
59 Bennett123 : I have read all of the replies, but still think that this is not going to help Boeing in selling B747ADV to airlines who are big RR or PW users. The B
60 DfwRevolution : SQ had over 60 Trent powered 772ERs... they went for the Ge90 powered 773ER I could list examples all day... I think yall are putting far too much st
61 N60659 : Additionally, Boeing most probably knew of this early on and included the possibility of a lone engine supplier during their presentations to the var
62 N1120A : As it looks right now, Airbus has 1 program thriving, 1 that had initial success but has flattened and a need to go back to the CATIA for the third T
63 Post contains images AirbusA6 : That would depend on the lone supplier being the one they wanted The 773ER is a good enough product to overcome such obstacles, the 747A isn't, I fea
64 CCA : Joe Sutter was on CXs latest 777-300 B-HNP delivery flight to Hong Kong so Boeing is still pushing the 747ADV with CX. Also CX has now got RR, GE (B-H
65 Atmx2000 : Why? ANA is a heavy user of GE and PW engines. If anything, they should have gone GE. So the question is why did they go RR? I suspect it has to do w
66 Navion : RRfan is pretty funny the way he "stacks the deck" showing various Airbus products as separate...i.e. A319/A320/A321 etc. They are all on the same bas
67 ZRH : I think you can't stretch the 777 too much because the -300 is already 73.8 meters in length and you can't go over 80 meter. This would cause more pr
68 Boeing7E7 : They can go over the 80 meter box, and accommodation is much easier when it's the tail not the wing that's exceeding the box. The 80 meter box is pri
69 CCA : Also forgot to add so was Boeing's head of Asia Pacific Sales, Larry Dickenson. CCA
70 N1120A : Wait now? A product that potentially has a lower seatmile cost than its larger, more expensive competitor that may have a common type rating to almos
71 Gigneil : They have already mentioned that a 777-400 is in the works in the event the 747A fails. I don't know how long it would be, but a 6 meter stretch is ac
72 QFA001 : Gigneil, you once wanted some sort of proof that R-R was struggling to define an engine for the A350/747Adv applications. You now have some. R-R real
73 Post contains images Gigneil : I believed you when you told me. N
74 QFA001 : FWIW, I didn't mean to question that. I just meant that now you had something in the public forum to go by...
75 C680 : If the 747A goes sole supplier for engines, this is not unique in the aviation business. In fact, most airframes are designed and certified without a
76 United Airline : Well if BA is not happy with GE engines then they will need to replace their entire B 747-400 fleet with 57 A380s since both B 777-300ER and B 747 Adv
77 GQfluffy : But isn't the A346 already close to the 80 meter mark? It's already longer (barely) then the 773. so I wouldn't think the 380 isn't going to be THAT
78 Art : It's cheap to develop; much of the development work has already been done; it's got its own niche; even with sales reduced by only using GE engines,
79 United Airline : One of these days if airlines request Boeiong to provide P&W and RR powered engines for the B 747 Advanced, and if they are to place a LARGE order, I
80 Post contains images GQfluffy : Highly doubt it. Reasons why (more or less taken from the thread)... 1. PW really doesn't have an engine lined up for the 747 ADV 2. RR really doesn'
81 QFA001 : Dude, it's a sole supplier deal. Once it's signed, it doesn't matter what the airlines want to do. It would take GE agreeing to void the contract. Th
82 AirFrnt : It's actually pretty standard. The 777X engines were going to be so expensive that the market simply was not going to be profitable if more then one
83 Atmx2000 : I'm sure Boeing would be estatic if they got 200 sales. The important thing is to invest the appropriate amount of money and resources and not a penn
84 Rtfm : So AF ordering American planes (777) with American engines was no issue but BA ordering 747Adv with American engines would be....? I think that peopl
85 Atmx2000 : Actually AF buys American planes with GE engines that have significant French content. Anyway, I don't expect much political pressure to be applied o
86 AFB2Pilot : How exciting! The Evendale GE plant is about 5 minutes from my house and I know many people that work there... looks like their long-term job security
87 StickShaker : Very interesting point - could be quite a shrewd move by GE. BA is answerable to its shareholders - they will do what's best for them, not politician
88 Lutfi : Cathay is now power by the hour, so OK for them. BUT Cathay has a JV with RR to maintain engines - which is profitable. If CX does order B747ADV, I wo
89 Post contains images Henny : Totally agree... a pretty rubbish series of comments.
90 PlaneSmart : The 747ADV hasn't been launched? B are simplying trying to tighten down the design to better guage airline demand. Based on the volume predictions, B
91 Jet-lagged : I think that Boeing and the enginer supplier, in this case GE, will be pitching to sell not only airframes and engines, but also MRO services includi
92 United Airline : Should be alright I think. If an airline wants the B 747 Advanced they will order it no matter what. Also GE can provide maintenance services. If Boei
93 WAH64D : I think any pressure applied by the British government would be in retaliation to previous US trade anomalies. A certain episode where the US Dept. o
94 Atmx2000 : That wouldn't be WTO sanctioned retaliation, and would be an invitation for European aerospace products to be shut out in the future.
95 PM : What is your source for this? BA is a private company. Again! Where are you all getting this nonsense from? Because they had no choice. It would have
96 Navion : PM, I think DfwRevolutions point is that while SQ might have chosen the RR engine on the 773ER if it was offered (which it was not), that did not stop
97 Ready4Pushback : Am I going mad? With regard to the original article this post is based on, where does it say that there is an "exclusivity deal" in place? It talks ab
98 DAYflyer : I would think that it would be best to offer a choice; that would increase sales. I think a single supplier is a mistake here.
99 Post contains images RayChuang : I think you're forgetting that General Electric Aero Engines has been in the jet engine business longer than anyone else in the USA, even longer than
100 Greaser : I don't think Boeing really had an economic choice. It's really either RR or GE, not both. Costs too high, paybacks too low. Heck, even the A380 whic
101 PM : I agree with the point you are making (it's the same point I was trying to make in my own post) but the original post reads as if SIA chose the GE90.
102 WAH64D : BA is indeed a private company. However it pays it taxes to the British Government. A lot of Rolls Royce workers also pay their tax to the British Go
103 RTFM : Well the TUs may still have a certain sway in BA but I don't think that runs to chosing engines for a/c.... Any new a/c orders from BA would be seen
104 AirbusA6 : Politics does play a role in route allocation too, and I'm sure Richard Branson would trumpet his RR A380s as a tool for getting more slots and routes
105 WAH64D : I stand by my post. The only time you will see a new BA aircraft with GE engines is when said engines are built in the UK. Nothing wrong with A345/34
106 AirbusA6 : I suspect a mix of 773ER and A380 - so many of BA's rivals to the far east will be running A380s (Singapore, Qantas, Malaysian, Emirates, Virgin) and
107 RTFM : Well the A345 is not a 773ER rival for a start so plenty wrong on that point. The bottom line though is that BA are not interested in the A345/6....
108 Atmx2000 : Uh, BA's paying taxes to the British government isn't leverage for the British government, unless you are saying that the British government is going
109 BoeingBus : My bet is that BA will go for the 773 ans 747Adv... and they will fly with GE engines simply because there is no choice. It's as simple as that. GE90
110 B2707SST : From BA's operational perspective, there's plenty wrong, starting with the fact that both the A345 and A346 underperform their Boeing counterparts: t
111 Zvezda : A B747Adv using bleedless systems is only slightly more likely than a B747Adv using piston engines. It would cost US$ billions and would have only ve
112 PM : Tesco is a prvate company and pay taxes (more than BA or RR) to the British Government. A lot of Tesco's shareholders are British. So what? Does the
113 AirbusA6 : I'm not convinced BA are that interested in buying the 747A at the moment, and if airlines like BA won't be making a purchase for another couple of ye
114 WAH64D : You are very very naieve if you believe there is no pressure on BA to buy British. The GE-90s were "allowed" by the government. ie, no objections wer
115 PM : I don't think I'm that naïve (I can, moreover, spell it) but there is simply no logic to your argument. The UK Government scowl at the prospect of B
116 RTFM : I would love to see what evidence you can produce to support this notion.. I am sure that there may well be politicians who would like BA to buy Airb
117 PlaneSmart : My money is on GE acquiring Boeing's commercial aircraft business within the next decade.
118 BoeingBus : Seems like they would but it will never happen. EU and US governments wouldnt approve it. But good try...
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