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BW/AA Incident Over MIA?  
User currently offlineSpeedbird2155 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 871 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2702 times:

Hi all, just read this report about an incident on Saturday 23 April, involving a departing BW flight and an AA aircraft. Does anyone have any info on this?

Here's the story

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineB752fanatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 918 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2594 times:

Very strange, both a/c equipped with TCAS perhaps, and probably in Miami Airspace, were controllers are very professionals.

They said that the plane was on cruise when that happened, vey odd, it is difficult to have that near miss at let's say FL350, or etc, very difficult, but well it has happened in the past, there you have the accident over Zurich airspace.



"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2342 times:

It is in the Herald:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/11489197.htm

It involved BW 431 (738, MIA-BGI) and AA 2198 (757, MEX-MIA). Apparently, the BWIA pilots didn't listen to ATC controllers to level off. Later TCAS notified both planes about their proximity, at which point the BWIA plane dipped to avoid a potential collision. What I would love to know is how BWIA put over 200 passengers on their 738s, because they claim over 200 passengers were on the flight.



a.
User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2303 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
What I would love to know is how BWIA put over 200 passengers on their 738s, because they claim over 200 passengers were on the flight.

Fish story. It went from being your mother's sister on the flight to your mother and her two sisters.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineSpeedbird2155 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 871 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2257 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):

Thanks for the link. As for the 200 passengers, obviously someone isn't checking their facts...but that's why you never believe everything printed or said by the media.


User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2247 times:

One passenger who was on the flight with his wife told the DAILY NATION those who witnessed the incident said the approaching aircraft was so close to the Barbados-bound aircraft that the name of the airline could be clearly seen.

Guess he's never seen an aircraft landing on a parallel runway before. Poor sap.  Wink

Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 1):
it is difficult to have that near miss

And live through it? Damn right. A near collision? Now you're making some sense...  biggrin 

fluffy


User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2235 times:

It seems, if anything BW was probably not at fault. I read some articles on the airline and it seems that it has a nearly flawless safety record for it's six decade existence. It has never had a plane go down. It can probably be ranked up there with Qantas and the like in safety. But from what Epinions.com says, BWIA probably needs to work on its punctuality.

On the other hand AA's planes (commuter and mainline) have been falling out of the sky nearly every year for the past 2 decades. Thank God for the lull in passenger traffic in the US otherwise we'd be seeing these events far more often, because of our national obsession with frequency of flights.



"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineEksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1295 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2135 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
ARTICLE EDITOR

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 6):



Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 6):
On the other hand AA's planes (commuter and mainline) have been falling out of the sky nearly every year for the past 2 decades. Thank God for the lull in passenger traffic in the US otherwise we'd be seeing these events far more often, because of our national obsession with frequency of flights.

I think you need to consider the huge size/frequency of service of the AA fleet compared to BWIA fleet.

From my understanding BWIA fleet = 9 planes
AA fleet = 840+ planes

By many measures, including passenger traffic, fleet size, and number of employees, American is the largest airline in the world. As of October 2004, American served 172 cities with a fleet of 840 aircraft, handling 80 million passengers a year with an average of 2,600 daily departures.

If one was to add the total flight hours and cycles of the BWIA fleet versus the AA fleet, I doubt " falling out of the sky" AA planes will be statistically significant.



World Wide Aerospace Photography
User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1847 times:

From today's Miami Herald.

===

BWIA Flight 431 took off April 23 from MIA on its way to Barbados when air traffic controllers instructed the pilot to maintain an altitude of 7,000 feet, Bergen said.

Although the BWIA pilot acknowledged the instructions, his Boeing 737 continued to climb.

Meanwhile, American Airlines Flight 2198 was on its way to MIA from Mexico. Flying level at 8,000 feet, the 757's TCAS kicked in and instructed the pilot to descend and turn to avoid the BWIA plane.

Neither the FAA nor the Trinidad and Tobago Civil Aviation Authority could say Friday how close the two planes got to each other.

Though the planes breached the FAA's standard separation distance of 1,000 vertical feet and three miles horizontally, the incident was not considered a near-midair collision because neither pilot had filed a report yet.

''Generally, the less paperwork the better, as far as pilots are concerned,'' Breslin said. ``They are not likely to fill out a report if they are not required to.''


http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/11540598.htm

===


User currently offlineJFernandez From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1740 times:

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 6):

Ummm, a few factual corrections. AA has had 7 fatal accidents since 1980, and 2 of those were 9/11 related. Not terrible out of almost 19 million flights since that time.

Of course, some of the good ones, SouthWest is 0 for in that time frame and has had almost 12 million flights, and Finnair and Qantas likewise are clean with nearly 2 million flights.

BWIA on the other hand has had only about a half million flights in that time period. Just one fatal accident would take it from a very safe airline to one of the worst, statistically. (Recall the same thing that happened to the Concorde, just one accident caused it to plummet from the safest aircraft record-wise to one of the most dangerous.)

Of course, avoid China Airlines (7 fatal accidents in 730,000) and Cubana (7 fetal accidents in 330,000 EEK).

But American's planes falling out of the sky on a yearly basis? Laughable.


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