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Airbus Threatens Indian Airlines  
User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2046 posts, RR: 10
Posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12156 times:

Airbus to IA: Take it or we'll sell it
NEW DELHI: The civil aviation ministry’s delay in procuring a Cabinet nod for Indian Airlines’ 43 Airbus aircraft acquisition plan is now threatening to push the $2-billion deal deeper into turbulence.

Airbus has warned that further delay in finalizing the order would force it to release the planes — blocked for IA — to other airlines that are queuing up for deliveries. This, Airbus V-P sales (India) Kiran Rao said, would disrupt planned delivery schedule for IA’s aircraft and is also expected to escalate cost.

“We can, at best, wait for 2-3 weeks for the government approval. We have been holding the delivery positions for all this while. If we do not get any information beyond 3 weeks, we will be forced to start releasing the delivery positions in favour of other airlines,” Rao said. Airbus, he said, has informed IA about the consequences of further delay.

The Economic Times

Airbus seems really desperate and they are right, why would they wait for IC when others are queuing up. Who know PP might want this order to in favour of Boeing too.
rgds
Aseem

[Edited 2005-04-26 03:23:54]


ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12074 times:

Have to disagree with you, but, business is business. Airbus is completely within their rights if the buyer does not finalize a deal in time, to find another buyer. I can tell you right now, Boeing would do the same thing.


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User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2046 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12054 times:

Quoting Aseem (Thread starter):
they are right

quoting myself..i did say that they (Airbus) are right
rgds
Aseem



ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11940 times:

Aseem

Half of an apology to you, the word "desparate" confused me as to which way you were leaning.

Cheers



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User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2046 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11912 times:

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 3):

never mind..have yourself a good one!
rgds
Aseem



ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
User currently offlineVictorTango From India, joined Jan 2005, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11577 times:

Actually serves the Indian Government right. Hopefully this should speed up things. Good move by Airbus.

Olly


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11571 times:

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 1):
Airbus is completely within their rights if the buyer does not finalize a deal in time, to find another buyer. I can tell you right now, Boeing would do the same thing.

Thats what is being taught in Business 101 in college.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3010 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11533 times:

Good for Airbus, someone's gotta light a fire under their ass to DO SOMETHING.

They are stuck in an endless cycle: paraylsis of analysis.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11522 times:

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 7):
They are stuck in an endless cycle: paraylsis of analysis.

They actually analyze sth? I thought they sit in the ministries, "drink chaaii and panii" [tea and water, used as synonym for... guess] and reallocate the Indian taxpayers money..


User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11492 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 6):
Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 1):
Airbus is completely within their rights if the buyer does not finalize a deal in time, to find another buyer. I can tell you right now, Boeing would do the same thing.
Thats what is being taught in Business 101 in college.

Oh my, is that where I learned that!  Smile



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User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11474 times:

LOL, MidnightMike!! LOL!! That is where you learned it. Did you forget your college years or were you too busy partying with the girls and getting drunk? LOL!!


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11450 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 6):
Thats what is being taught in Business 101 in college.

But you assume people actually passed that class!  rotfl 

fluffy


User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2826 posts, RR: 42
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11394 times:

Quoting Aseem (Thread starter):
“We can, at best, wait for 2-3 weeks for the government approval. We have been holding the delivery positions for all this while. If we do not get any information beyond 3 weeks, we will be forced to start releasing the delivery positions in favour of other airlines,” Rao said. Airbus, he said, has informed IA about the consequences of further delay.

It's interesting that Airbus is forcing the issue now. The majority of this order is

Quoting VictorTango (Reply 5):
Actually serves the Indian Government right. Hopefully this should speed up things. Good move by Airbus.

There is something weird here. Airbus has orders coming, and maybe there is some contention for the early slots, but Airbus is opening the door to competition and Boeing to get back into it.

I wonder how locked down this deal really is?


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12091 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11318 times:
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Airbus has to be getting desperate if they are now blackmailing airlines

User currently offlineAntiuser From Italy, joined May 2004, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11286 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 13):
Airbus has to be getting desperate if they are now blackmailing airlines

There's no blackmailing going on - it's business as usual.
Say, if I'm selling my car and you tell me you're going to buy it, you ask me to hold it for a week while you discuss the purchase with your wife... two weeks go by and I hear from other people interested in buying the car. Am I supposed to hold it for you indefinitely when I have other people who want to buy it? I'd be daft if I did!



Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
User currently offlineKhushdesi From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11263 times:

i'd like to know who is knocking down airbus's door to get those slots...

User currently offlineAntiuser From Italy, joined May 2004, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11205 times:

Quoting Khushdesi (Reply 15):
i'd like to know who is knocking down airbus's door to get those slots...

Among the carriers waiting delivery of A32Xs are jetBlue, America West, Air Asia, Iberia and Air Berlin.



Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
User currently offlineCOUGARRIDES From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11237 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 12):
It's interesting that Airbus is forcing the issue now. The majority of this order is

The problem is that even though the IC board itself has voiced its decision favoring Airbus as its choice, the civil-av minister is now hellbent on forcing IC to go for Boeing as well. There was one move last week, answered fittingly with protests from pilots and management alike, to force IC to lease in 767's rusting away in the desert. This was a repeat of the whole 777s in AI deal: where AI mgmt had chosen A340-300's but suddenyl the 777's managed to find their way in: no thanks to a corrupt minister and equally corrupt managers in AI.

Naturally Airbus is worried that the IC order may also swing the other way. I mean with a man like Prafull Patel in charge, you cant expect decisions to be taken based on merit!! Airbus is perfectly right is seeking a quick end to this nonsense. There are other airlines, like Kingfisher and Deccan who could use some of the delivery slots that Airbus had kept aside for IC.

Sadly, IC's relationship with Airbus (or rather the French aviaition industry) goes way back to the '50's and has been a very mutually beneficial relationship. Sadly that is threatened today because of Prafull Patel.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31679 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11122 times:

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 7):
They are stuck in an endless cycle: paraylsis of analysis.

 Smile

Well If Airbus gets the message accross,We might see IC A320s soon.Else IC going the Boeing way.
Indian Aviation Always Interesting Like a Thriller.

Airbus Is correct in its decision.The way Time delays are a part of Indian Aircraft procurement process,Its about time.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineTGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 874 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10865 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 18):
This was a repeat of the whole 777s in AI deal: where AI mgmt had chosen A340-300's but suddenyl the 777's managed to find their way in: no thanks to a corrupt minister and equally corrupt managers in AI.

Corrupted !!! By who ??? Do you dare to say that an American company/government could corrupt somebody ??
Don't you know that only "foreign" countries (especially us French, of course) do that ?

My god, be prepared to receive a well deserved chastisement from the US of A.
 duck 

 Wink



Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10774 times:

The most hypocritical thread I've ever read on this forum.

Airbus pulls this crap and they then accuse Boeing of twisting arms?

And of course, France never uses it's political clout to influence anything. Why, over there in Europe all the governments over there are as pure as snow.
 butthead 



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10738 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 20):
Airbus pulls this crap and they then accuse Boeing of twisting arms?

You know, if you had actually read what this thread is about, you wouldn't post something like that...

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 20):
And of course, France never uses it's political clout to influence anything

Not much more, or less, than a certain - quite large - country on the other side of the Atlantic... it's just that France has much less "political clout" than that other country I'm talking about...

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 20):
Why, over there in Europe all the governments over there are as pure as snow.

Anyone who believes that should seriously seek psychological help...

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineMonteycarlos From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10552 times:

They may have thrown the deal as it went to Boeing...

Either Airbus is stepping on toes or it seriously doesn't care about winning orders from IA anymore!



It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
User currently offlineTrevD From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 327 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10546 times:

I say GOOD for Airbus. Let 'em move those A320's to Deccan and Kingfisher - teach IA a lesson.

Force them to go get 737NG's from Boeing and the leasing companies. That'll teach them!!


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12462 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10541 times:
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Quoting Khushdesi (Reply 15):
i'd like to know who is knocking down airbus's door to get those slots...

As at the end of March, Airbus A32x backlog was over 1000 planes. So maybe, just maybe, some of those airlines would like to receive their planes early? Possibly?  sarcastic 

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 20):
Airbus pulls this crap and they then accuse Boeing of twisting arms?

Pulls what crap exactly? Did you read the thread?  butthead  Indeed!



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
25 Post contains images RayChuang : At the rate things are going we're going to end up with 737-800's and 737-900's in IC livery. ( Airbus fans out there )
26 Post contains images HAWK21M : WTF.....The Qoutes arn't working or something. Someone elses qoute with my Username. IC Should stick to Airbus,makes more sence. regds MEL
27 AirFrnt : You are throwing around allegations of corruptions rather easy and fast. Are there any investigations into this minster? This is the issue with state
28 Jush : WTH is that supposed to mean? shed some light on it or are u already at your psychatrist?
29 FlyMeToTheMoon : From The Economist June 12, 2003 - corruption seems to be a recurring issue. I am not passing any judgment here, just passing along the information so
30 Post contains links FlyMeToTheMoon : In fact, while we are on the topic here is the entire article. Source - The Economist June 12, 2003. The entire Economist article
31 Boeing7E7 : A car does not net you $50 billion in orders and business for several years. If Airbus get's too pushy and loses all of it to Boeing then what have t
32 USAF336TFS : Thank you Jush for expressing my sentiments exactly!
33 TJCAB : Please, Airbus is a multi-national company.
34 Ken777 : Airbus has every right to set a deadline, especially when there are production slots that can be rapidly filled. On the other side of the coin, Boeing
35 707lvr : International commerce involves any tactic which could be imagined. Going public with one of them is not a very good idea.
36 PIA777 : Airbus just lost a big order to Boeing (Air Canada), I don't think they can afford to lose this deal. PIA777
37 AirFrnt : Quoting a old investigation of Airbus and the previous government is not real informative to weither allegations of corruption are being thrown aroun
38 Cruiser : I love this! If Airbus wants to take away the slots, then I doubt the Indian Gov't will be too upset. The Indian Gov't realises that there is another
39 FriendlySkies : Is this really good PR for Airbus, especially given Boeing's recent orders? Honestly, even from a neutral stance, Airbus is basically saying "hey, all
40 Sanjet : Airbus has no other choice. The indian buraucracy has a history of taking a lot of time for these kinds of things...
41 Bennett123 : Raychuang What makes you think that IA will choose Boeing. It is more likely that they will simply continue to ponder. My understanding is that long p
42 ExFATboy : No, Airbus is saying "we're not going to hold delivery slots bloody forever while you get your act together." Airbus isn't refusing to sell to Indian
43 Leskova : Now imagine the following situation - AI's decision was made public today, but two years from now, the whole thing is still not signed because one or
44 Morvious : What a Car is to a local car dealer, is a plane for Airbus. Well, they just fired the heat up a little. It seems to me they can use those slots bette
45 LifelinerOne : Frank is right here! AI just agreed to take 28 B787-800's. Boeing has a big backlog for the B787 and customer demand is high. Now, a few years after
46 Antiuser : Airbus has a product with great demand in the A32X series. There are lots of customers who are paying just as much or maybe more than IC for the same
47 Mrniji : Bottomline is: It is good Airbus did that - they do not need to be treated by the Indian Govt like this - there is enough demand for 32X, no need og t
48 Jwenting : Airbus misinterpreted the market and lost the deal. It's called fair trade. Airbus had nothing to bribe the Indian government and instead resorted to
49 Mrniji : Jwenting: I think you are misinterpreting: IC (Indian Airlines) is about to order 42 Airbus AI (Air India) has just announced to order about 50 Boein
50 Post contains images HAWK21M : Quite Common out here. The A319/20/21s is the best deal considering their Existing fleet,it would be tragic if the Fleet was changed to Include only
51 Mrniji : just FYI: The Economic Times of India reported yesterday that Civil Aviation Minister Patel is pressing the cabinet to flag off IC's deal with Airbus
52 NAV20 : Very difficult to make sense of this in business terms. Sure, Airbus are entitled to use a bit of muscle to get the horse into the starting gate. But
53 Mrniji : I do not know why you are sure.. they would arrive here after the deal has become sealed
54 Post contains images NAV20 : Didn't you read the 'just in case' bit at the end of my post, Mrniji?
55 HAWK21M : Personally.Its nice to have all Types in the Country.From a Mx Exposure POV. There was a time when Boeings were preffered by Pvt operators,that soon
56 Post contains links and images Keesje : oh oh their are some obstacles for the deal : India's arms purchase hits a roadblock Political squabbling in New Delhi is threatening to blow apart In
57 Post contains images JoyA380B747 : Let's put it this way....AI-IA both goes for Boeing. Then we would say that Airbus would no more be in the No.1 spot. Boeing has US Govt. to pressuriz
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