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Boeing: 787 Distinctive External Look - NOT Gone.  
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 14104 times:

From the Boeing website on this "huge" issue with a.netters:


(April 26, 2005 New 787 Comments)

"Along with tremendous customer response, the 787 program continues defining the airplane, including finalizing its exterior look.

"Our designers took the concept image that reflected our aspirations for the program -- a truly unique and recognizable external shape -- and created an efficient airplane that people will instantly recognize," said Bair.

Passengers will recognize the 787 because of its distinctive nose, wings, tail and engine cowl. Inside, passengers will find bigger windows, innovative lighting, more personal space, bigger overhead bins, a lower cabin altitude during flight and improved humidity.

-Boeing Company





If I'm being at all honest, the "scalloped" or "serrated" engine cowls are the most distinguishing feature on the outside of the a/c. Now, when I see more photos, or even an actual 787 production model, I will probably notice the 787 is more distinguishable from other a/c than I thought. . .

And, even though the pointy nose is gone, the new nose is still different as Boeing says. . .

I think I just need to see more photos/drawings of the new (April-26 '05) design to make a better judgement.

[Edited 2005-04-26 21:54:06]


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61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 14023 times:

There are some bigger versions of the photos on this forum that clearly show the lines:

http://www.ifdg.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=10334

Honestly, I don't think it looks that bad. I actually like the nose, the only part I don't like is the sharp-tapering of the aft fuselage. It should be more gradual IMO.


User currently offlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1455 posts, RR: 44
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 13922 times:

Those engines are fascinating. In addition to the serrated edges on the outer cowl, has anybody noticed the complex shape of the cowl near the after underside of the engines? Some might interesting fairings. I find such visual details enhance my enjoyment of this plane, even though I am *most* disappointed with the conventional-ish nose. I really liked the model.


Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 13887 times:

It has the same span, lenght and configuration as an A332, so it´s gonna be hard from a distance.

User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2072 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 13869 times:

Has somebody from Long Beach managed to get involved in the 787? That nose cone reminds me of the MD-11!


Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineTockeyhockey From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 950 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 13821 times:

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 2):
Those engines are fascinating. In addition to the serrated edges on the outer cowl, has anybody noticed the complex shape of the cowl near the after underside of the engines?

as soon as the engineers at boeing tell their bosses that they can save $10 if they don't put the serated edges on the cowlings, they will be gone!!!


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8193 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 13802 times:

Ick... looks like a little porker in those pictures. And those cockpit windows are cheapo.


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User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 13776 times:

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 5):
as soon as the engineers at boeing tell their bosses that they can save $10 if they don't put the serated edges on the cowlings, they will be gone!!!

I think the serated edges are designed to break up the sound emissions...someone correct me if I'm wrong?

(note, I understand it was a joke...)


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 13614 times:

You're correct.

They're called chevrons, and were first featured on the engine cowling of a prototype Trent 600 for the XQLR.

They are presently in production on the CF34-10s on E170s and 190s.

N


User currently offlineGaut From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 344 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13513 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 8):
You're correct.

They're called chevrons, and were first featured on the engine cowling of a prototype Trent 600 for the XQLR.

They are presently in production on the CF34-10s on E170s and 190s.

E170s are powered by CF34-8E and E170's by CF34-10E. Those engines are completely different.
They both have chevrons but on nozzle and not on cowls like the B7E7.

Regards

Gaut



«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 962 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13496 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 8):
They're called chevrons, and were first featured on the engine cowling of a prototype Trent 600 for the XQLR.

They do a fairly good job at it too, though I understand a little thrust is lost. Here they are on the T600 and 747-400XQLR



I was really suprised how stumpy the 787-8 turned out... I was expecting something a little more slender, though it is a very wide fuselage, I should have expected as such.


User currently offlineMoose1226 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 250 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13426 times:

The nose looks like the A380. Definitely not a good thing. The 767/777 noses are much more attractive.  crying   crying 

User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13375 times:
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OK good job finding those enlargements. It shows the distinctive quality of the nose and the narrower tail.

It is more mundane than what Boeing was advertising even yesterday, but it still looks fairly unique. I'd like to see a final copy of an interior.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineBlackhawk144 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13340 times:

Although I definetaly agree that the first design was SO much better...I don't really hate the new one. You actually have to look at the large pictures. I was so shocked to see such a beautiful airplane turn so ugly when I saw the small pictures, but if you see those big pics, then it looks a lot better.

Anthony


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 962 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13329 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 12):
I'd like to see a final copy of an interior.

Boeing doesn't have the final athority over cabin details to really publish an offical "final cabin." They can design certain aspects like overhead bins, celing lines, etc, but the seating and appointments are up to the customer.

The -9 variant definitly wins the "best looking" award though...


User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13286 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 3):
It has the same span, lenght and configuration as an A332, so it´s gonna be hard from a distance.

Now Boeing copied the 332? You just never know when to give up do you? The nose, Tail and Wings are dead giveaways. Particularly the nose.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13209 times:

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 15):
The nose, Tail and Wings are dead giveaways.

Well considering where it all began,



the good old 330 must have something right, although it looks totally different of course.



 scratchchin 


User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13179 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 16):
the good old 330 must have something right, although it looks totally different of course.

Don't you mean the 767??? You can give up any time.


User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13172 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 4):
Has somebody from Long Beach managed to get involved in the 787? That nose cone reminds me of the MD-11!

Kind of funny that you mentioned that, there are Long Beach engineers involved in the 787.



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User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12910 posts, RR: 100
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13143 times:
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Quoting Gigneil (Reply 8):
You're correct.

They're called chevrons, and were first featured on the engine cowling of a prototype Trent 600 for the XQLR.

They are presently in production on the CF34-10s on E170s and 190s.

They ease the expansion of the fan air into the slip stream thus reducing aircraft noise by ~ 3dbA!!! That's a VERY noticible noise reduction.

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 5):
as soon as the engineers at boeing tell their bosses that they can save $10 if they don't put the serated edges on the cowlings, they will be gone!!!

Boeing will spend the "$10" for the added slots into noise controlled airports (e.g., LHR). There is a fatigue penalty for the Chevrons; this translates into a slightly higher maint. expense.

What fascinates me is the "plug and play" nature of the engines. A FIRST for an airliner. In 15 minutes (Plus paper work), a customer (or lessor) could swap from RR to GE or GE to RR. Its going to make having the competition INTENSE. Before, the cost of changing engines was prohibitive (a nacelle often costs $1 million+). The recertification costs to switch an engine usually added another cool $1 million/airframe. Now? The biggest switching cost will be three checkout touch and go's!  Smile

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineAAgent From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 560 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13141 times:

Looking at the enlarged photos I was wondering which are they going to use, winglets or raked wing tips? The first photo shows winglets where the others feature the raked wing tips. Although both look very nice I think I prefer the raked wing tips.

Regards,
AAgent



War Eagle!
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 13124 times:

Quoting AAgent (Reply 20):
Looking at the enlarged photos I was wondering which are they going to use, winglets or raked wing tips?

Both. The shrake is on the -8/9 and the winglet on the -3


User currently offlineAAgent From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 560 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 13105 times:

Boeing7E7,

Thank you for the wing tip clarification.

Best Regards,
AAgent



War Eagle!
User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1155 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 13078 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 4):
Has somebody from Long Beach managed to get involved in the 787? That nose cone reminds me of the MD-11!

Boeing has said that the 787 is truly the first joint Boeing/McDonnell-Douglas engineering venture. I think they've proved that with the elimination of any similarity from previous Boeing or MDD noses


User currently offlineAeroVodochody From Czech Republic, joined Feb 2005, 540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12961 times:

I really wish they kept the pointy nose...



Try not to be jealous, we can't all be Czech.
25 StealthZ : How does that work, did I not read, only yesterday that GE has been selected as "exclusive" engine supplier to the 787 program? Regards Chris
26 Boeing7E7 : No, that's the 747ADV program.
27 StealthZ : OOPS.. me bad, should pay more attention Thanks for the correction! Chris
28 Lightsaber : Just a little clarification: on the 747A with bleed, the RR and GE would pull bleed from slightly different locations, so that wouldn't be as plug an
29 Boeing7E7 : No one was talking about bleed or bleedless, the discussion was on the interface and single engine supplier. The motivation behind GE is probably bas
30 CXYYZ : Anyone else notice in the front on picture that it looks like the pilots turned toward each other talking? Overall though, I think I like the look. So
31 Velasco : The fact is that on the outside this is just another airplane. If the same happens to the interiors I'm not sure the flight experience will be any dif
32 Post contains images AIR757200 : I think it looks great:
33 Grantcv : I don't see all that much difference between a 767-200 with raked winglets added and painted in the new livery and the 787. I think that side by side,
34 TomTurner : The whole general look of the aircraft...almost seems as if Airbus helped design it as well... sorry...
35 LH423 : Yeah, I kinda have to say that the design is definitely turning out to be more conventional than Boeing had hyped it up to be. Then again, the idea is
36 Post contains links DfwRevolution : Oh please... the only commercial airplanes that are truely household names are the 747, the Concorde, and the Learjet. There are pleanty of other fin
37 MD-90 : I think it looks chubby. Obviously, Embraer and Boeing are both thinking along the same lines as far as efficiency goes, because those 787 pictures lo
38 DeskPilot : My thoughts too. I thought the Caravelle type nose was one of the 787's major differences from the 767/777 look. Oh well, let's see what else get she
39 FriendlySkies : As far as design, nothing will get shelved. This is the final exterior design according to Boeing, though I suppose they would change something if ab
40 MIAMIx707 : The era of pretty airplanes is long gone, so sad.. who would have thought the old American B707 would still be the sleekest looking conventional jet.
41 GQfluffy : What hype? Boeing's marketing hype was the 7E7. E for economic. Fly economically. From the looks of things, that's what Boeing produced. An airliner
42 Post contains links and images Zippyjet : The April 26 edition of the 787 is an improvement! I never cared for the shark tail. This modified tail is a nice combination of the traditional jet t
43 Jwenting : He can't, he thinks he's the high priest of Airbus adoration. hmm, always seemed to me Boeing helped design Airbusses. After all Airbusses are metal
44 Sunilgupta : You obvisouly don't know how it works... Engineers put stuff there and the bean-counters take it away... Sunil
45 Mav75 : FINALLY, someone said it! I thought I was alone on this. Oh well...guess we'll have to get used to it.
46 Post contains links and images DIA : Someone said the nose loks more like an E-170/190. . .I agree: View Large View MediumPhoto © Joan Martorell And here is a photo of the serrations on
47 Areopagus : Make it 58 years ago. That description fits the B-47, which flew in 1947.
48 Post contains links and images Keesje : Thats right Jwenting! BTW the Arado Ar-234 flew 62 yrs ago. 4 were quickly shipped to the US in 45. One is now in the Smithsonian. http://www.vectors
49 Columba : I doubt that, Passengers -except a.netters and other aviation geeks- won´t recognize the 787 as a special plane. I think it is still looking good, b
50 Glom : I have to agree that I don't think that the cool features of the original 787 concept wouldn't have really made it obvious to the public. Only two air
51 AFROTC : It took a minute for the new look to grow on me, but i love it!, cant wait to see the flight deck.
52 DAYflyer : Somehow it reminds me of a 757 nose.
53 Grantcv : The problem with the new look of the 787 is one of expectation. Boeing has spent a lot of marketing time describing the aircraft as having a distincti
54 Post contains images Nucsh : I respectfully disagree. Passengers will notice bigger windows and ambient lighting. There's no way they can't. Not to mention the less-violent ear p
55 FriendlySkies : Something that hasn't been brought up is the rather negative reaction when the first concept images were released, with the shark tail and pointy nose
56 Petertenthije : I find the 787 looks more like a Dornier 728. In particular the nose section.
57 Post contains images YUL332LX : Gosh, hated it yesterday, ...still hate it today. Especially the -8 version
58 MIAMIx707 : I was never a big fan of the 'dreamliner' shape overall. However it looked as different as a twinjet with underwing engines could get and that was ver
59 Cloudboy : Don't forget that this are only artist impressions - there is only so much you can do with either a computer or pencils and paint. I am going to hold
60 Post contains images Columba : Just look at a 777 flight deck, there won´t be too much difference. Maybe frequent flyers will recognize it from the inside. But I meant while board
61 Post contains images FlySSC : To me, it still looks like more the nose of the good old Caravelle ...
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