DIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 30 Posted (8 years 1 month 21 hours ago) and read 12855 times:
From the Boeing website on this "huge" issue with a.netters:
(April 26, 2005 New 787 Comments)
"Along with tremendous customer response, the 787 program continues defining the airplane, including finalizing its exterior look.
"Our designers took the concept image that reflected our aspirations for the program -- a truly unique and recognizable external shape -- and created an efficient airplane that people will instantly recognize," said Bair.
Passengers will recognize the 787 because of its distinctive nose, wings, tail and engine cowl. Inside, passengers will find bigger windows, innovative lighting, more personal space, bigger overhead bins, a lower cabin altitude during flight and improved humidity.
-Boeing Company
If I'm being at all honest, the "scalloped" or "serrated" engine cowls are the most distinguishing feature on the outside of the a/c. Now, when I see more photos, or even an actual 787 production model, I will probably notice the 787 is more distinguishable from other a/c than I thought. . .
And, even though the pointy nose is gone, the new nose is still different as Boeing says. . .
I think I just need to see more photos/drawings of the new (April-26 '05) design to make a better judgement.
[Edited 2005-04-26 21:54:06]
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
Honestly, I don't think it looks that bad. I actually like the nose, the only part I don't like is the sharp-tapering of the aft fuselage. It should be more gradual IMO.
ContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1436 posts, RR: 50 Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 20 hours ago) and read 12673 times:
Those engines are fascinating. In addition to the serrated edges on the outer cowl, has anybody noticed the complex shape of the cowl near the after underside of the engines? Some might interesting fairings. I find such visual details enhance my enjoyment of this plane, even though I am *most* disappointed with the conventional-ish nose. I really liked the model.
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
Tockeyhockey From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 932 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 20 hours ago) and read 12572 times:
Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 2): Those engines are fascinating. In addition to the serrated edges on the outer cowl, has anybody noticed the complex shape of the cowl near the after underside of the engines?
as soon as the engineers at boeing tell their bosses that they can save $10 if they don't put the serated edges on the cowlings, they will be gone!!!
FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4009 posts, RR: 6 Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 20 hours ago) and read 12527 times:
Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 5): as soon as the engineers at boeing tell their bosses that they can save $10 if they don't put the serated edges on the cowlings, they will be gone!!!
I think the serated edges are designed to break up the sound emissions...someone correct me if I'm wrong?
They're called chevrons, and were first featured on the engine cowling of a prototype Trent 600 for the XQLR.
They are presently in production on the CF34-10s on E170s and 190s.
E170s are powered by CF34-8E and E170's by CF34-10E. Those engines are completely different.
They both have chevrons but on nozzle and not on cowls like the B7E7.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 20 hours ago) and read 12247 times:
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 8): They're called chevrons, and were first featured on the engine cowling of a prototype Trent 600 for the XQLR.
They do a fairly good job at it too, though I understand a little thrust is lost. Here they are on the T600 and 747-400XQLR
I was really suprised how stumpy the 787-8 turned out... I was expecting something a little more slender, though it is a very wide fuselage, I should have expected as such.
Blackhawk144 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 12091 times:
Although I definetaly agree that the first design was SO much better...I don't really hate the new one. You actually have to look at the large pictures. I was so shocked to see such a beautiful airplane turn so ugly when I saw the small pictures, but if you see those big pics, then it looks a lot better.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 12080 times:
Quoting DL021 (Reply 12): I'd like to see a final copy of an interior.
Boeing doesn't have the final athority over cabin details to really publish an offical "final cabin." They can design certain aspects like overhead bins, celing lines, etc, but the seating and appointments are up to the customer.
The -9 variant definitly wins the "best looking" award though...
They're called chevrons, and were first featured on the engine cowling of a prototype Trent 600 for the XQLR.
They are presently in production on the CF34-10s on E170s and 190s.
They ease the expansion of the fan air into the slip stream thus reducing aircraft noise by ~ 3dbA!!! That's a VERY noticible noise reduction.
Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 5): as soon as the engineers at boeing tell their bosses that they can save $10 if they don't put the serated edges on the cowlings, they will be gone!!!
Boeing will spend the "$10" for the added slots into noise controlled airports (e.g., LHR). There is a fatigue penalty for the Chevrons; this translates into a slightly higher maint. expense.
What fascinates me is the "plug and play" nature of the engines. A FIRST for an airliner. In 15 minutes (Plus paper work), a customer (or lessor) could swap from RR to GE or GE to RR. Its going to make having the competition INTENSE. Before, the cost of changing engines was prohibitive (a nacelle often costs $1 million+). The recertification costs to switch an engine usually added another cool $1 million/airframe. Now? The biggest switching cost will be three checkout touch and go's!
AAgent From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 560 posts, RR: 15 Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 11892 times:
Looking at the enlarged photos I was wondering which are they going to use, winglets or raked wing tips? The first photo shows winglets where the others feature the raked wing tips. Although both look very nice I think I prefer the raked wing tips.
Dtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1049 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 11829 times:
Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 4):
Has somebody from Long Beach managed to get involved in the 787? That nose cone reminds me of the MD-11!
Boeing has said that the 787 is truly the first joint Boeing/McDonnell-Douglas engineering venture. I think they've proved that with the elimination of any similarity from previous Boeing or MDD noses
AeroVodochody From Czech Republic, joined Feb 2005, 540 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 18 hours ago) and read 11712 times:
I really wish they kept the pointy nose...
Try not to be jealous, we can't all be Czech.
25 StealthZ: How does that work, did I not read, only yesterday that GE has been selected as "exclusive" engine supplier to the 787 program? Regards Chris
27 StealthZ: OOPS.. me bad, should pay more attention Thanks for the correction! Chris
28 Lightsaber: Just a little clarification: on the 747A with bleed, the RR and GE would pull bleed from slightly different locations, so that wouldn't be as plug an
29 Boeing7E7: No one was talking about bleed or bleedless, the discussion was on the interface and single engine supplier. The motivation behind GE is probably bas
30 CXYYZ: Anyone else notice in the front on picture that it looks like the pilots turned toward each other talking? Overall though, I think I like the look. So
31 Velasco: The fact is that on the outside this is just another airplane. If the same happens to the interiors I'm not sure the flight experience will be any dif
33 Grantcv: I don't see all that much difference between a 767-200 with raked winglets added and painted in the new livery and the 787. I think that side by side,
34 TomTurner: The whole general look of the aircraft...almost seems as if Airbus helped design it as well... sorry...
35 LH423: Yeah, I kinda have to say that the design is definitely turning out to be more conventional than Boeing had hyped it up to be. Then again, the idea is
36 DfwRevolution: Oh please... the only commercial airplanes that are truely household names are the 747, the Concorde, and the Learjet. There are pleanty of other fin
37 MD-90: I think it looks chubby. Obviously, Embraer and Boeing are both thinking along the same lines as far as efficiency goes, because those 787 pictures lo
38 DeskPilot: My thoughts too. I thought the Caravelle type nose was one of the 787's major differences from the 767/777 look. Oh well, let's see what else get she
39 FriendlySkies: As far as design, nothing will get shelved. This is the final exterior design according to Boeing, though I suppose they would change something if ab
40 MIAMIx707: The era of pretty airplanes is long gone, so sad.. who would have thought the old American B707 would still be the sleekest looking conventional jet.
41 GQfluffy: What hype? Boeing's marketing hype was the 7E7. E for economic. Fly economically. From the looks of things, that's what Boeing produced. An airliner
42 Zippyjet: The April 26 edition of the 787 is an improvement! I never cared for the shark tail. This modified tail is a nice combination of the traditional jet t
43 Jwenting: He can't, he thinks he's the high priest of Airbus adoration. hmm, always seemed to me Boeing helped design Airbusses. After all Airbusses are metal
44 Sunilgupta: You obvisouly don't know how it works... Engineers put stuff there and the bean-counters take it away... Sunil
45 Mav75: FINALLY, someone said it! I thought I was alone on this. Oh well...guess we'll have to get used to it.
47 Areopagus: Make it 58 years ago. That description fits the B-47, which flew in 1947.
48 Keesje: Thats right Jwenting! BTW the Arado Ar-234 flew 62 yrs ago. 4 were quickly shipped to the US in 45. One is now in the Smithsonian. http://www.vectors
49 Columba: I doubt that, Passengers -except a.netters and other aviation geeks- won´t recognize the 787 as a special plane. I think it is still looking good, b
50 Glom: I have to agree that I don't think that the cool features of the original 787 concept wouldn't have really made it obvious to the public. Only two air
51 AFROTC: It took a minute for the new look to grow on me, but i love it!, cant wait to see the flight deck.
53 Grantcv: The problem with the new look of the 787 is one of expectation. Boeing has spent a lot of marketing time describing the aircraft as having a distincti
54 Nucsh: I respectfully disagree. Passengers will notice bigger windows and ambient lighting. There's no way they can't. Not to mention the less-violent ear p
55 FriendlySkies: Something that hasn't been brought up is the rather negative reaction when the first concept images were released, with the shark tail and pointy nose
56 Petertenthije: I find the 787 looks more like a Dornier 728. In particular the nose section.
57 YUL332LX: Gosh, hated it yesterday, ...still hate it today. Especially the -8 version
58 MIAMIx707: I was never a big fan of the 'dreamliner' shape overall. However it looked as different as a twinjet with underwing engines could get and that was ver
59 Cloudboy: Don't forget that this are only artist impressions - there is only so much you can do with either a computer or pencils and paint. I am going to hold
60 Columba: Just look at a 777 flight deck, there won´t be too much difference. Maybe frequent flyers will recognize it from the inside. But I meant while board
61 FlySSC: To me, it still looks like more the nose of the good old Caravelle ...
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