MrComet From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 502 posts, RR: 8 Posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6593 times:
Not a very good marketing strategy for Airbus:
Air-India mulls legal action against Airbus
Sunday May 1 2005 00:19 IST
DUBAI: State-run international carrier Air-India (AI) on Saturday said it is considering legal action against Airbus Industrie for its statement against a $7 billion order by AI to buy 43 planes from its US rival, Boeing.
Air-India chairman and managing director V. Thulasidas, who is in Dubai for the inaugural services of Air-India Express, the budget airline started by Air India, criticised Airbus Industrie's demand for a probe into its decision to opt for Boeing planes, saying Airbus had no right to complain about the move.
MrComet From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 502 posts, RR: 8 Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6542 times:
Well, Airbus has implied there was corruption by saying they were denied equal treatment. That could be libelous if in fact the decision was made legitimately on cost issues. That could be grounds for a civil suit and could even be criminal in some countries. It all depends on exactly what was said and how it was said.
Aseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2042 posts, RR: 10 Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6454 times:
whichever way, all this haggling has spoilt the whole atmosphere. I don`t think Airbus can go anywhere with this. With so much bitterness in the air, I doubt AI can turn in favour if Airbus even if it wants to.
TheBigOne From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 240 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6311 times:
I would just love to see AI take Airbus to court for libel. The truth about the decision making process would then be apparent for all to see. I for one wouldn't be surprised if personal economics far outweigh the benefits the airline will enjoy from ordering Boeing! Let battle commence!
p.s. If the order had gone Airbus' way I would be saying the same thing.
Reach for the stars - they are closer than you think!
Glidescope - I think you have misunderstood my post. I couldn't care less as to whether AI orders A or B, as I have enjoyed many years of flying on AIs 747s and A300s/310s. However I am aware that most orders associated with AI be that Aircraft / IFE / Engines / Finance or just about anything tend to bring an amount of 'personal benefits' to the committees / individuals involved in the ordering process. In fact for years, applicants trying to join AI as cabin crew were required to 'compensate' those responsible for hiring them. The reason I suggest it would be good if AI took legal action against Airbus, is so that the true economics of any order would become far more transparent to the tax payers of India!
Reach for the stars - they are closer than you think!
Mrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5985 times:
Quoting MrComet (Reply 2): That could be libelous if in fact the decision was made legitimately on cost issues. That could be grounds for a civil suit and could even be criminal in some countries. It all depends on exactly what was said and how it was said.
I agree.. but I wonder: what is the legal basis, and which countries' law is relevant?? I like the India of AI suing Airbus for the shamefull comments, but I do not see any legal basis - The case could not be in India, as Airbus is not registred here (???) - it could probably be in Europe.. but which country (France, Germany, European Law)? Or in front of an arbitray court of the WTO??
If someone has some idea about this, please post it.. if I have some time, I will do some legal research.. interesting question!
Jet-lagged From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 863 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5925 times:
I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that if you cause someone harm, then you may be liable for damages. So, if AI could show that Airbus's comments and requests are unfounded and have caused harm (e.g. lost reputation to individuals, time and cost from managers and their airline required to deal with their whining) then the argument would be that Airbus should re-imburse.
I'm sure AI would not actually sue, they are just talking back big like when a little dog barks at you, you might raise a stick and shout. Airbus is being less than rational, less than gracious, even rude, and they are getting a response worthy of their actions. India is an independent country, and they have their own airlines not influenced by European governments. Why should Airbus feel they can push India and AI around?
MrComet From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 502 posts, RR: 8 Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5817 times:
Libel/slander is different in each country but it usually must meet these criteria:
1) It must be a statement that is false
2) That statement must be published
3) The statement must cause proveable harm or damages
In some countries, politicians and government agencies can not sue for libel because it is considered fair comment.
I suspect Jet-lagged is right -- this is just big words to scare off Airbus. I doubt in any country Airbus' comments would be considered libelous although they do not seem very smart. Airbus is acting more like a branch of a government agency than a business. Boeing may be doing some behind the scenes complaining about past awards but they are not publicly embarrassing AI or any other airline.
I am sure Boeing is not above similar tactics and I feel for any company that has to deal with a non-transparent bidding process. This is something I am sure both companies are used to. However, Airbus is failing from a public relations standpoint and looks terrible.
Leskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 71 Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5709 times:
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 13): Quoting Co7772wuh (Reply 12):
If so , does this mean that the 40+ a/c order to Airbus is dead ?
Those are for A32X and are not connected to this deal. I don't see why the 787/777 order would change anything.
They're actually also for another airline - they're for Indian Airlines, not Air India.
But in this case, somehow I am really starting to get the feeling that something is strange: first of all, I've never seen Airbus act this strange after losing a contest; being disappointed is one thing, actually issuing a statement that you were disappointed already something else (remember Boeing/Iberia); but publicly - essentially - accusing the airline of corruption? Looking back at the allegations made about some Airbus deals in the past, I'd say that if you're sitting in a glasshouse, you should undress in the dark...
But if things weren't strange enough with Airbus' behavior, now Air India actually publicly states that they're contemplating legal action against Airbus? I really don't see where both sides are trying to go with this, but - as always in situations like this one - I don't see either side coming out unscathed...
SimProgrammer From France, joined Aug 2004, 192 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4747 times:
Some might see this as a 'seves airbus right' topic, but the risk is very much with AI. Airbus's indemnity is underwritten by EC so A has very little or nothing to lose either way it goes.
This will also be on the Eurpoean financial scale and if AI loses the costs are catastrophiclly higher than it would for an A win.
I wouldnt want to be AI's Public Indemnity insurer right now... it is quite likely that AI wont get any legal case against A off the ground due to the enormous financial risk involved, AI's PI insurer would never let this go ahead unless AI itself underwrites the risk.
Afforded with a newly commited aircraft order - it's simply wont happen.
Drive a bus, an Airbus, easier than a London bus!
25 Theredbaron: If you buy a very high ticket item, you always get freebies, for example you but a Ferrari (or two heheh) and just before you put down the cash you ma
26 Commavia: I've said it before and I'll say it again: Airbus -- just let it go already!
27 KL808: And this I think is the MAIN REASON. Why wouldn't you be pissed when a government owned airline who of course does a fair big amount of trade with bo
28 MidnightMike: Right now both parties are speaking to each other through the media & press releases. There is going to be no lawsuit, this is just a way of telling A
29 Aseem: if you look from Govt of India's perspective, the order is split, with AI (Air India) going for 50 Boeings and IC (Indian Airlines) about to place or
30 Mrniji: HAL - Hindustan Aeronatics.. google them out. Sometimes, I think that the doctrine of swadeshi (Self-sufficiency) is not that bad.. this is one of th
31 USAF336TFS: Good point... Sounds to me that some of our Airbus fans think in terms of a "I want the whole cake" mentality. Childish.
32 Leskova: The mentality which, of course, the Boeing fans crying for a re-evaluation of Indian Airlines' Airbus order couldn't be sharing, right? In the end, I
33 USAF336TFS: I stand by what I said... I agree wholeheartedly. And I believe both airlines did just that.
34 RyanAFAMSP: I think Air India has every right to publicly condemn Airbus's actions. The accusations made by Airbus have been deeply insulting as they have been co
35 Commavia: I doubt that the US trades Boeing aircraft orders for slots at LGA and ORD.
36 Aseem: Moreover, giving slots at CDG won't tilt multi-billion dollar order in favour of Airbus. At the most AF can demand similar rights to India. The bottom
37 Mrniji: A bottle of champagne for you! Great said, I fully agree!
38 HAWK21M: There goes our Desire of one day seeing Fresh Airbus Aircraft in AI Colours. regds MEL
39 Airish: It looks like Airbus will have to take things further if they want to with the Indian government. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/10910