Keesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12930 times:
Airbus edges ahead of Boeing in 6 bln usd Emirates order - report
05.01.2005, 03:17 PM
LONDON (AFX) - Airbus Industrie is edging ahead of Boeing Co in a race to secure a 6 bln usd (4.6 bln eur) order from Emirates airline for its A350 mid-range aircraft, according to The Business.
The newspaper did not name its source, but said Airbus's A350 aircraft is ahead of Boeing's 787 model for an order for up to 50 mid-sized aircraft.
Talks between Airbus and Emirates are taking place this weekend. The A350, an A330 derivative, is emerging as favourite because the Boeing flagship plane is too small for Emirates' requirements. Price will also determine the winner, the newspaper said.
The order could be announced at June's Paris air show, it said.
At the same time the UK government, desperate to boost manufacturing in the wake of carmaker MG Rover's collapse, is preparing to offer controversial launch aid for the A350, the newspaper added.
Aseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2039 posts, RR: 12 Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12900 times:
thank God!! this will give them some respite from the recent AC and AI set back. Whichever way the order goes, I'd say A350 is still very much shrouded in mystery.
rgds
VT-ASJ
NorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2281 posts, RR: 4 Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12811 times:
congrats to Airbus, what version of the 350 are they going to order? Do we have any news about QR yet?
Like I thought 50 is possible by or at Paris, 100 shouldn't be too hard to get after that, especially if they get LOT, QR, and an order from ILFC.
"Rapid decompression leads to involuntary exiting of the Aircraft"
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 7913 posts, RR: 14 Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12772 times:
I'm also keeping my fingers crossed for the A350 as it is now. I still think Airbus needs to design the A350 'from scratch' in order for it to be a true competitor to Boeing's 787. Anyway, congrats to Airbus if this EK deal will be confirmed by both Airbus and EK.
Keesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12769 times:
Few interesting threads of the last weeks
Airbus Should Dump The A350 Program
A350 In Danger Of Falling Between 2 Stools
A350 Strategy A Mistake?
Competition Altering Effects Of 787 Sales
Airbus - Forget A350 Attack With An A320NG?
Will interesting to see what the 750-900 will do to the B777-200 variants, its real competitor. Boeing stretching the 787-9 will cut their own flesh..
NorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2281 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12676 times:
So if this deal goes through, then EK will have what? 142 planes on order?
"Rapid decompression leads to involuntary exiting of the Aircraft"
CRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 1920 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12603 times:
I think the A350 will work well in EKs network, if they choose the A359. Then they can put in 260 seats in 3 classes or 300 in 2 classes and still fly to Japan as a replacement for the A343 and A332 when their leases expire.
Revelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 7290 posts, RR: 13 Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12573 times:
Should we title this thread "Keesje strikes back!" ???
Cruiser From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 991 posts, RR: 10 Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12547 times:
I read a similar article on the same topic, and EK had apparently gone to Boeing last week to see if it would extend it further. Boeing was worried about it killing the market for the 772.
I think that this is very much up in the air. Boeing may do a cost/benefit analysis and determine that the market for an extended extended 787 is worth trumping the market for the 772.
As we have seen recently, don't count Boeing out until the final order in announced. However, once again, Emirates is out ordering planes. Now, lets just hope that it doesn't add capacity too quickly and becomes majorly unprofitable and cannot take delivery of the planes. That would majorly suck for Airbus, the A380 program, and the A350 program.
Cruiser
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 61 Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12502 times:
Nothing is signed yet, guys, these type of press releases from unnamed sources are typically put out there for one purpose, to put additional pressure on the manufacturers. We have seen this before, and these press releases are usually not conclusive of anything. Its now time for Boeing and Airbus to sharpen their pencils and come up with a killer price to get this 50 aircraft order from EK....the release itself states that price will determine who wins the order.
That being said, EK has said that even the highest passenger capacity versions of the 787 may be a bit too small for them, and was pushing Boeing to fruther strech the aircraft to add about another 20 seats. The issue is, of course, that by making the 787 even bigger, it will become dangerously close in size to the 777. One thing is for sure, Boeing and Airbus are going to fight this one out to the last moment.
If Airbus gets the order, it will have a lot riding on the future success of EK....43 A380s plus 50 A350s, thats a huge amount of airplanes and I cannot even count how many billions of dollars are involved.
LifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1803 posts, RR: 10 Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12383 times:
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 11): If Airbus gets the order, it will have a lot riding on the future success of EK....43 A380s plus 50 A350s, thats a huge amount of airplanes and I cannot even count how many billions of dollars are involved.
Exactly! Airbus must have great faith in the Dubai based company. However, they reported an enormous record profit last week, so money won't be the problem. Still, I think it's a little risky to be so dependent on one airline. But don't get me wrong, a sale is a sale!
KL911 From Hungary, joined Jul 2003, 4328 posts, RR: 17 Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 12294 times:
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 11): If Airbus gets the order, it will have a lot riding on the future success of EK....43 A380s plus 50 A350s, thats a huge amount of airplanes and I cannot even count how many billions of dollars are involved.
Don't worry, they ( Dubai) have plenty of Dollars/ Euros to play with....
Mham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2442 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 12210 times:
Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 12): Exactly! Airbus must have great faith in the Dubai based company. However, they reported an enormous record profit last week, so money won't be the problem. Still, I think it's a little risky to be so dependent on one airline. But don't get me wrong, a sale is a sale!
This is not exactly bad news for Boeing in the grand scheme of things. I think they wouldn't mind seeing Airbus spending resources on a relatively few 350. One does have to wonder about all the eggs in one basket. Maybe Emerates should just buy Airbus. Now waiting for a Boeing 737/320 replacement..
Heres a scenario. Paris: Airbus, with great fanfare announces the launch of the 350 based on Emerites order for 50 aircraft. Laying in wait, the next day Boeing calls a press conference to announce a new 737E.
btw, My source tells me that there WILL be a Boeing announcement of some sort...
Atmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 45 Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 12136 times:
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 11): That being said, EK has said that even the highest passenger capacity versions of the 787 may be a bit too small for them, and was pushing Boeing to fruther strech the aircraft to add about another 20 seats. The issue is, of course, that by making the 787 even bigger, it will become dangerously close in size to the 777. One thing is for sure, Boeing and Airbus are going to fight this one out to the last moment.
I know some pro-Airbus folks have been claiming that the market wants something bigger than the 787, but in reality the overall market wants a mix of sizes, with different airlines wanting different size ranges. The thing is that for the capacity range that the A359 will be in, a signficant portion of the market's needs have been sated for the time being for the combination of pax and range by the A343 but mostly the 772ER. The A359 offers more efficiency but not more capability for the capacity range, unlike the smaller A358 and the entire 787 range. Given that the 787 and A358 introduce capabilities that haven't been seen before at this capacity range in an economically sound offering, there is an large, eager market for that type of aircraft.
IMO, Airbus is offering the A350 family because that's what they can offer without going to a completely new design. The reason why they say the market needs something larger is because they are trying to make a virtue out of necessity and the fact that a A357 is not a viable offering with the A350 base platform. Also, they need to address the lack of competiveness in the A343/772ER marketspace. However, I think it is too early to address the replacement of these aircraft and of the A333 and 772A. The market for replacing existing aircraft will start 3 to 5 years down the road from the proposed A350 EIS. The A359 leaves the door open for Boeing to do to it what they did to the A343, especially since Airbus won't be taking advantage of the most advanced materials technology.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
DfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 675 posts, RR: 54 Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 11843 times:
Quoting Keesje (Reply 5): Few interesting threads of the last weeks
Airbus Should Dump The A350 Program
A350 In Danger Of Falling Between 2 Stools
A350 Strategy A Mistake?
Competition Altering Effects Of 787 Sales
Airbus - Forget A350 Attack With An A320NG?
This is probably the best thing to happen to the 787 program: Airbus locking themselves into the A350 as is. Yet another Airbus project floated cheifly by EK...
Quoting Keesje (Reply 5): Will interesting to see what the 750-900 will do to the B777-200 variants, its real competitor. Boeing stretching the 787-9 will cut their own flesh..
A win for Boeing is a win for Boeing. And what's to say they wouldn't price a -10 on par with the 772?
Quoting Keesje (Reply 5): Will interesting to see what the 750-900 will do to the B777-200 variants, its real competitor.
Forgetting that the 789 is closer to the A359 than the A359 is to the 772?
Quoting A388 (Reply 4): I'm also keeping my fingers crossed for the A350 as it is now.
Singaporegirl From Singapore, joined Oct 2000, 300 posts, RR: 12 Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11600 times:
i've raised this question on a different thread, but didn't get a satisfatory answer... some of our oldest 772ers will be 10 years old in 2007/8, which is pretty old for sq standards. my understanding is that boeing hasn't really updated the 772ers yet, therefore do you think it's possible that the a359 might be a good replacement for our 772ers? i highly doubt that sq will order the b789 to replace our b772s. what are the odds of sq ordering the a359 to replace our 772ers? or do you think it's possible for boeing to update the 772er in 2 years time? thanks!
Ladies & Gentlemen, we will now demonstrate the use of the safety equipment on this aircraft...
Atmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 45 Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11512 times:
Quoting Mariner (Reply 17): Why is a win for Airbus a loss for Airbus?
If winning encourages them down a path which leads to a lower return on investment on resources expended than the path not chosen, a win for Airbus can end up being relative loss in the end.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
SNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3176 posts, RR: 33 Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11510 times:
Quoting Mham001 (Reply 14): btw, My source tells me that there WILL be a Boeing announcement of some sort...
I'd bet on a B747Adv announcement, instead of of the B737E...
Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
Glideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1459 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11460 times:
Quoting Mham001 (Reply 14): This is not exactly bad news for Boeing in the grand scheme of things. I think they wouldn't mind seeing Airbus spending resources on a relatively few 350. One does have to wonder about all the eggs in one basket. Maybe Emerates should just buy Airbus. Now waiting for a Boeing 737/320 replacement..
Heres a scenario. Paris: Airbus, with great fanfare announces the launch of the 350 based on Emerites order for 50 aircraft. Laying in wait, the next day Boeing calls a press conference to announce a new 737E.
btw, My source tells me that there WILL be a Boeing announcement of some sort..
I agree completely. The last thing Airbus needs is to actually have to build the aircraft!!!
"All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 20068 posts, RR: 91 Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11441 times:
Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 19): If winning encourages them down a path which leads to a lower return on investment on resources expended than the path not chosen, a win for Airbus can end up being relative loss in the end.
"If"? Sure.
But that isn't the statement made. The statement made is that "a win for Boeing is a win for Boeing" - no prevarication, no equivocation, a win is a win.
The reverse is that, in some mysterious way, a "win" for Airbus is always, by defintion, an ambivalent affair, which may very well be a loss.
BlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1802 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11307 times:
For you boeing diehards.
The BEST thing to happen to Boeing is Airbus investing $4Billion to upgrade the A330 into the A350.
With go ahead for the A350 (providing enough orders) Boeing won't have cutting edge competition for the 787 for 20+ years.
They're not handing trophies out today
25 Mariner: So now we get this: a win for Airbus is actually a loss for Airbus and a win for Boeing. Weird. cheers mariner
26 DfwRevolution: In this case, if EK is the customer who pushes the A350 to critical mass, it's my opinion that Airbus will lock themselves into a less than optimal d
27 Sv11: Can the A350 carry more people than the 787-9? The article seems to imply that. sv11
28 Co7772wuh: Agreed ! Sorry , what is OEW ? Thanks in advance .
29 Dalecary: A 2 row stretch of the 787-9 will pretty much capacity match the 350-900. Airbus has not firmed up on the 359,however, so maybe Airbus are going to i
30 Mariner: I have no idea. I don't even know if this is a "win" for anyone yet, because I don't believe the order has been placed. But we arrive at the same poi
31 CoTXDFW777AA: I think that is actually a win for boeing. The 787 has already proven itself a more marketable airplane and has stolen orders away from Airbus, even b
32 Atmx2000: We are assuming that Boeing has a significant combined technological and timing advantage for which its R&D expenditures seem reasonable and justifia
33 ZOTAN: How old is WN's oldest 733? With how many planes they have, they could order enough to have a 737E be profitable without orders from anyone else.
34 Aloha717200: I hope Boeing pulls something out of its hat to win this order. A 50 plane order would mean that this half-baked competitor to the 787 would suddenly
35 9V-SVC: That will not happen because so far SQ is satisfied with A345. Period. As for replacement of the 772ER , that is a tough call but I think mostly they
36 Art: Exactly. Or perhaps not quite so. Some years down the line when Boeing has say 600 orders for the 787 and Airbus 200 for the A350, Airbus will have t
37 Mariner: Ah, assumptions. So, in review, a win for Boeing is a win for Boeing - given certain assumptions. A win for Airbus is a loss for Airbus (or even a wi
38 Atmx2000: No, its a relative loss for Airbus and relative win for Boeing with those same assumptions.
39 DfwRevolution: No we don't, you simply can understand some basic logic Lemme spell it out for you Akshay Buddiga. Keesje stated that Boeing would scavenge their own
40 Mariner: Atmx2000: Okay, I'm totally lost. Let me try one more time: only Airbus can lose. Only Boeing can win. Even more mysteriously, only Airbus can lose on
41 DfwRevolution: Good question- Opperational Empty Weight. A measure of how much an aircraft typically weights with nothing other than cabin fittings inside. When com
42 NAV20: I was interested to read the last sentence of the thread starter? Presumably it is a lot easier for Airbus to decide to go ahead with developing the A
43 DfwRevolution: An education I happen to have received.... by the way. You are turning this into a slew of generalizations, sir. The words "always" and "only" were n
44 Mariner: As if I were not confused enough: "is preparing" is future tense. That which is in the future has not happened. So how can Airbus be sure of that whic
45 United Airline: A B 777 replacement will NOT happen anytime soon. Their B 777s are VERY new. And they still have a few on order. When it comes to replacement, they wi
46 Moose1226: If the 772ER is supplanted with a -10, I think the danger is not killing the 772ER (you are right in that a 777 sale would simply become a 787 sale),
47 Art: Couple of things: the UK government is not so desperate to boost manufacturing. I don't think that Airbus could mostly be spending British taxpayers'
48 Propulsion: Exactly. You make some excellent points. Nobody is bashing the A350 for the sake of it. You only need to look at what we know about the A350 vs. 787
49 Jacobin777: an order loss is an order loss......I think Boeing should go for the win with this....we are making an assumtion that the A350 is going to be inferior
50 FriendlySkies: I don't know what you're all getting worked up about. Just look at EK's current fleet. They'll end up ordering both planes as it is, the only questio
51 Lehpron: I'm with Norcal, it feels kind of weird that the number of A350 orders has somehow jumped from the well publicized 10 from Air Europa to passing 787
52 NAV20: Art, here is the press report of Blair's 'election promise'. North Wales being a Development Area, I expect that there will be more government money
53 FriendlySkies: I think you misread it. This would be an order for 50 A350s, just a rumor that Airbus is slightly ahead. Emirates would then have a TOTAL of 143 airp
54 Aseem: in spite of what DXB is, and is going to be, I really wonder where they are going to use all these planes. After all, how many people will transit th
55 DarthRandall: Geeze, but we're negative about the A350! Any plane that makes money is a good thing for the company that makes it. And maybe an order like this will
56 DfwRevolution: I think it's somewhat clear that Boeing is progressing toward a day (not so far away) that the 773ER, 772LR, and 777F will be the emphasis of the 777
57 NAV20: Interesting that, if this order is actually placed, Emirates would then be the source of 30% of the orders for the A380, and over 80% of the orders fo
58 Atmx2000: The QR order is probably more attainable by Boeing than the EK order is with slight increases in capacity for the 787-9. They ought not let the opport
59 Jacobin777: hmmm..still not 100% sure if thats true...maybe if I saw more evidence about it.. totally agree on that part, what I as referring to (and didn't do a
60 Zvezda: Boeing is known to be studying the possibility of lightening the OEW of the B777 family by perhaps 20,000 lbs. or so. SQ might replace some or all of
61 AC787: I remember reading an article a week before the AC order about AC leaning to airbus. The article had some nice quotes from Robert Milton about how he
62 TexasLonghorn: Agreed. It seems like Boeing is advancing aviation technology while Airbus is employing tried, safe technology. Boeing is employing composite technol
63 PM: "Yet another..."? How many are you suggesting there are? You can't mean the A300/A310. I'm sure you don't mean the A330-200. Surely you don't mean th
64 NAV20: 45 out of a total of 155 orders for the A380? Sounds like a headlock at least, to me
65 Theredbaron: I find this thread real funny since no airplane has flown, no final specs are know FOR SURE, and best of all... maybe at the end of the year we can ch
66 PM: In what sense? Should Airbus have refused to sell that many to EK?! And how can EK somehow 'hurt' Airbus because of it and why would they want to? Th
67 StickShaker: The 350 target market is crystal clear - long range aircraft with 332/333 capacities - should roughly translate to 763ER and 772ER/343 replacements.
68 NAV20: PM, I fully expect the A380 to be a commercial failure. I have good reasons for wanting it to fail quickly if it IS going to fail - billions of reason
69 Solnabo: I love you, Emirates! Makes those A whiners stop for a second (or 2)! "Airboss is doomed, stop making the 350" etc. etc. etc. etc........u guyz are ge
70 MauriceB: i really hope this one will go to airbus, i already thought it would happen since EK really wanted boeing to stretch the 787-9.... and since i like bo
71 Lehpron: I find you troubling NAV20, I would never wish ill on anyone as whaat goes around comes around. The fact that you put an "if" in your statement prove
72 PM: "Fact"? It is a "fact" that in the year 2015 the A380 programme will still be "dangerously exposed to Emirates"? How come? And why ten years? What if
74 Mariner: I'm out of it, Keesje. I kept feeling I was interupting a circle jerk. cheers mariner
75 Sebolino: LOL. Tough luck ! It's going to be a success actually, if we observe the trend.
76 Joni: Wouldn't it be better for Boeing if the 787 didn't have any competition? If this deal is finalized, or the A350 gets other large orders, then the exi
77 N77014: Nonsense. They bargain their way to whomever can get the best deal for them. In that regard, they are everyone's whore.
78 PM: I think you'd struggle to substantiate that argument! Emirates' whole business plan to take over the World is not based on flying Arabs but on flying
79 Monteycarlos: Its sounding very tiresome NAV. Consider this, the money was not spent entirely because of the A380. I have a document, which I am not at liberty to
81 VivaGunners: Ok, so at least one thing seems to be pretty sure; the A359 will kill the A343. Airbus will in that way keep many of its present customer for the 343,
82 DAYflyer: A desperately needed order. Boeing 227, Airbus 60. That's all I need to point out at this juncture I'd say.
83 Art: With regard to financing the development of the A350 and the UK govt's involvement, you say: I'd bet my bottom dollar that I am right. Do you think th
84 Monteycarlos: Yeah I think we'd all agree with that. Yes, but needless to say that EK is one of the customers Boeing would love to have on board with the 787. They
85 Widebody: Sorry to rebuff some of the arguments above but if the British government want to throw a few million/billion at the A350 to salvage some of jobs lost
86 Leelaw: Those who have taken the vow of unyielding boosterism must always wear rose colored glasses.
88 RayChuang: I think right now EK is probably trying to get a better deal on the 777-200ER. I wouldn't be surprised that in the end EK orders a larger number of 77
89 Solnabo: WTH are you b***ing about, B-team??? EK are getting 773ER in their fleet, do you mean that EK should be an ALL-Boeing carrier??? Sometimes u stars n s
90 Leelaw: IMO, once the powerplant link is broken, the other synergies become a lot less important; especially with a potential fleet of 50+ aircraft. IMO, pri
91 Monteycarlos: Why would they want the 772ER? If anything they have specified an interest in the 772LR, not the ER... Hmmm, I'd be guessing at this point that the A
92 Revelation: Then I suppose you are also for the Chinese Government taking a few billion of their trade surplus with US, EU, etc and making a "Chinese copy" of th
93 Leelaw: Either that, or reviving the "trunkliner" concept.
94 FCKC: Moose 1226 Your comments about new airlines (which don't operate 777 family aircraft) , thus becoming new with an order for 777-300ERs is not totally
95 NYC777: Agreed, though I think QR is looking more at an earlier EIS for the 787-900 than a larger size. Since Boeing pushed the 787-900 to 2010 then a QR ord
96 Art: Wouldn't that be the adding to their surplus?
97 Revelation: Can you forsee a circumstance where their surplus will not grow, at least for the next decade or so? Anyway, I think you know what my point was, and
98 NAV20: Sorry, Widebody, can't resist mentioning one of my heroes, John Maynard Keynes, a distinguished economist who usually talked (and wrote) a great deal
99 N60659: (1) With reports of GE gaining exclusivity on the 747Adv, what will Airbus do on the A350? For what could be a rather limited market, will RR be willi
100 Bennett123: IMO Airbus need to develop the A350 and a A330 replacement. After all Boeing is developing the B787 and probably the B747ADV and B737 replacement at p
101 NYC777: As we have seen with the KE and AC order that is not really a factor vis a vis 787 vs A350. I forgot NW even though it hasn't been announced.[Edited
102 Bennett123: Clearly it is not the only issue, but I think that it is important.
103 NYC777: If Boeing can deliver on the promised operating economics or the 787 or even exceed them then it is more compelling argument than cockpit commonality.
104 DAYflyer: There will be hell to pay if Airbus lost this one to Boeing, but it is very highly unlikely to happen. Heads would roll; this was way too heavily favo
105 Zvezda: Governments have a very poor record of choosing the right projects to back. Private investors have a much better record of choosing the right project
106 Iowa744Fan: I had a question about the original post and this post sort of alluded to it. Has there been any discussion from Boeing about moving up this EIS? Als
107 Jeffrito: Well then stop typing and keep jerking.
108 BlueSky1976: I just find it quite funny how Boeing Bigots keep writing A350 off before the plane has even been fully defined. Let's wait until Airbus actually deve
109 N60659: Good question. The 767 line would have seemed to be a perfect fit for this expansion but with talks of Shanghai Airlines adding 767-300ER's prior to
110 Mark777300: Iowa744Fan: I totally agree with you when talking about EK. For an airline that is operating in an area of the world that is going through quite a bit
111 Avek00: Never mind a.netters writing off the A350 - it's the AIRLINES who place the orders that are doing so.
112 N60659: From a seating and cargo capacity standpoint, you may be right. However, you have to consider that shrinking an airframe to meet the 787 size could p
113 Iowa744fan: Good point. I forgot about this issue as well. Given the recent success of the 787 and EK's good relationship with Airbus, I imagine that they could
114 Mark777300: -N60659: I agree that shrinking an aircraft can play with the economics of an aircraft. I also feel that the aircraft might also have added weight fro
115 N60659: Actually a month and 10 days (June 12-19). I completely agree here. Earlier EIS for A350 customers and higher seating and cargo capacity are the two
116 QFA001: Seats, perhaps. However, the B787 has an advantage in cargo.
117 StickShaker: Airbus have already hinted they will develop higher gross weight versions of the 350. There is no reason that the new technologies of the 350 (compos
118 Jacobin777: NOT well said, I'm considered one of those "Boeing bigots" and if one is to see my previous posts, I've defended the A3-fifty almost every time, (now
119 Grantcv: So what happens if both the A380 program and the A350 program are dependent on very large and unusual orders from the same airline? If the orders turn
120 PM: I'd forgotten about NW too. A couple of weeks ago it was a done deal. But it's all gone rather quiet. Could it be that Airbus are still grafting behi
121 NW727251ADV: Boeing should just respectfully concede defeat if the EK order does in fact go to Airbus because as far as EK would be concerned, there's nothing els
122 Zvezda: The A350 might be stretched to compete with the B777-300, however, the B787 can also be stretched. I don't think Airbus will introduce any new four-e
123 StickShaker: No offence intended - was just suggesting that it is premature to write off the 350 so early in its development. No harm at all in the enthusiasm for
124 Atmx2000: I think it would be a mistake to stretch the 787 into a toothpick-like 350 pax range aircraft, especially if Boeing ever wants to come out with a com
125 NAV20: As far as I know, StickShaker, it wasn't actually a 'bail-out', it was done in a fairly brutal and 'business-like' way. The government of the day bou
126 Keesje: well lets not get into this one... The $6 Billion 7E7 Subsidies, Justified? http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/1928802
127 Atmx2000: It's not a matter of loyalty, but rather that GE paid for the 777LR exclusivity by funding its development. That may figure into their calculations f
128 Keesje: If you look at the core engines of the GP7200 of the A380 and the GE90 of the 777LR you will see the same thing. Apart from that I think it is unlike
129 Monteycarlos: I think its a bit early for Boeing to concede this order. The race is still being run, and its not as though they are far behind either! Very true in
130 StickShaker: Would expect any A360 to be a twin and to utilise new technologies employed on the A350 - composite wing, Li alloys etc. At a guess the higher gross
131 NorCal: Great, not this argument again. Airbus receives direct subsidies, while Boeing receives indirect subsidies. The thing is though, if Airbus where to m
132 NYC777: It's not just a matter of finding room in Everett for a second line but all the contractors and sub-contractors must also increase production in orde
133 Sebolino: Oh no ! Not this argument again. It happens that we don't care about what one would get if ... What matters is what they actually get. If Airbus was
134 NYC777: Doubt it...even Leahy has thron in the towel with the NW order.
135 RayChuang: I am still thinking that EK will end up with an order for more 777-200ER's at very attractive prices, mostly because EK already flies the plane and be
136 NYC777: That kind of thinking is what got Boeing into trouble before. That would be hard to do given Airbus's unpaid investment in the A380 , trying to launc
137 Astuteman: Interesting that AC quoted A350 as too big for their needs - seems there's room in the middle for both, if they're engineered right.....
138 Gigneil: Not really. Airbus has made clear that there will be complete systems parity. The A350 is the A330 replacement, I'd like to know more. The fuse is a
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The last thing Airbus needs is to actually have to build the aircraft!!!
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