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Will Hawaiian Go Daily To SYD?  
User currently offlineOnedude From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 214 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3177 times:

Hi All

I have flown HA a few times now ex SYD to/from HNL and onto the mainland. The load factors seem very high and the F/A's last time I flew said they wanted to go daily but either lack of aircraft or the bankruptcy proceedings were holding things up.

Can anyone shed any light on whether they are going to increase frequency and/or whether this is a smart move for HA given QF and AC are on the route as well?

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24814 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3155 times:

Indeed HA does have a lack of aircraft. In order to make SYD happen they did have to cut some mainland service.

I have however heard questions regarding the profitability of the Sydney services. Good loads are one thing, however making money on them might be another.
Hawaiian has been having to discount the service greatly amongst the mainland travel agent community. They have been offering some very low net rates including a free Hawaii stop over and even roundtrip inter island flights for those on the West Coast willing to use them to Australia and other Pacific destinations like Tahiti.

HA cannot support HNL-SYD service solely on the demand from the islands and Australia without connections to/from the mainland.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3632 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3093 times:
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Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
Indeed HA does have a lack of aircraft. In order to make SYD happen they did have to cut some mainland service.

HA has not cut any mainland service to fly to SYD. What they did was use an aircraft that would normally sit on the ground in HNL.


User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2354 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2942 times:

They did drop ONT right before starting SYD. Remember the $99 fares last year.

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5610 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2871 times:

Ha763

They squeezed an extra 20 odd hour flight out of available equipment, 3/4 days a week??

Got any details of this you would care to share?


Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2850 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
I have however heard questions regarding the profitability of the Sydney services. Good loads are one thing, however making money on them might be another.
Hawaiian has been having to discount the service greatly amongst the mainland travel agent community. They have been offering some very low net rates including a free Hawaii stop over and even roundtrip inter island flights for those on the West Coast willing to use them to Australia

Yep...just like I figured...QF and UA are kicking HA's ass to the point where they're just barely making it. A full 763 is one thing, but profitable 744's between SYD and LAX (SFO for UA) are quite another! Why stop in HNL when you go nonstop from LAX or SFO????


User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3632 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2782 times:
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Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 3):
They did drop ONT right before starting SYD. Remember the $99 fares last year.



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 4):
They squeezed an extra 20 odd hour flight out of available equipment, 3/4 days a week??

Got any details of this you would care to share?

They did announce that they were stopping ONT and starting SYD around the same time. But, HA also announced a 2nd seasonal SEA flight for the summer at the same day they announced the end of ONT service. ONT was doing so poorly that it wasn't even daily and by the time it got dropped was down to 4 flights a week. This meant that HA had an aircraft not flying on those days without ONT service.

The 2nd SEA flight started the day after the last ONT flight. It was using this aircraft on the days that didn't have the 2nd SEA flight that HA was able to do SYD without another aircraft. This is also why the SYD flight originally was numbered 21/22, it was using aircraft that were coming from the SEA rotation. HA is doing this again this summer, with a 2nd SEA flight on the days with no SYD flight.

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 5):
Yep...just like I figured...QF and UA are kicking HA's ass to the point where they're just barely making it. A full 763 is one thing, but profitable 744's between SYD and LAX (SFO for UA) are quite another! Why stop in HNL when you go nonstop from LAX or SFO????

HA main business is to bring pax to Hawaii and the SYD flight is to bring Australian tourist to Hawaii. However, since they were using an aircraft that is also in the SEA rotation, they also marketed it as a same day connection to Australia from the West Coast to help fill the flight down to Australia.


User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1353 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2722 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 5):
Yep...just like I figured...QF and UA are kicking HA's ass to the point where they're just barely making it.

Another ignorant post by someone with no facts to back up his statement. Who says HA is "just barely making it"? I work these flights every week and loads are good and yield is high. Cargo between SYD and HNL is also very good. Just flew in this morning from SYD with another heavy load.

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 5):
Why stop in HNL when you go nonstop from LAX or SFO????

I'll tell you why. There are many people that would rather get a good nights sleep in their own beds, leave the west coast in the morning and arrive in SYD in the early evening and get a good nights sleep as opposed to flying with UA or QF and leaving late at night and flying 14 hours only to arrive early in the morning, tired but forced to stay awake for hours until either their hotel rooms are available, or it's a decent hour to go to bed. We are getting more and more American passengers on our flights. If you lived in SEA, PDX, SAN, SMF, where would you rather connect, in SFO/LAX and take a redeye, or connect in HNL with a free stopover? It's a no-brainer!

Aloha,
HALFA



Don't mess with Texas....We just may do that!
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3766 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2606 times:

What are the loads like on HA's 763 flights, could they ever need anything bigger than a 763?

Rob!

[Edited 2005-05-02 13:11:35]

User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2499 times:

I don't know how all the load factors are, but I recently had a devil of a time getting a friend of mine from Hilo (ITO) to San Diego.

There was no problem with the ITO-HNL, SAN-HNL, or HNL-ITO legs. The problem was HNL-SAN for the entire month of April was almost completely sold out. No seat was available for less than $600.

It ended up that he booked himself HNL-LAX and I drove up and picked him up. He reported that his HNL-LAX segment was only about half full (this was the flight that arrived around 11 PM), but his SAN-HNL segment was quite full.

And in answer to the question about where I as a San Diegan would prefer to transfer, very definitely the answer would be Honolulu - of course, if HA threw in a free flight to ITO for me to spend a few days there, I'd be even more thrilled!!



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2147 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2419 times:

below is year 2004 through october according to DOT, between US and Australia:

Total:
HA 64.5%
QF 73.2%
UA 81.4%
AC 73.9%

from HNL
QF 77.1%
HA 62.5%
AC 74.4%

from LAX
QF 73.2%
UA 82.4%

from SFO
UA 78.0%


User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1597 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2370 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 5):
Why stop in HNL when you go nonstop from LAX or SFO????

Because not everyone who lives on the West Coast lives in Los Angeles or San Francisco.



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2072 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2291 times:

A word of caution about those DOT figures- AC numbers aren't true HNL boardings as the aircraft usually arrives into HNL full from YVR, so their numbers are distorted. AC does not sell many HNL-SYD and v.v. tickets.
HA numbers should exceed QF's now as HA flights only commenced in May 04.

There was a similar issue with Australian DOT numbers involving UTA in the 90's- the flight arrived full from NOU and the SYD transit numbers inferred they only had a load factor of 30% when in fact SYD had very few seats available to sell.


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