Onedude From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 214 posts, RR: 0 Posted (11 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3915 times:
I have flown HA a few times now ex SYD to/from HNL and onto the mainland. The load factors seem very high and the F/A's last time I flew said they wanted to go daily but either lack of aircraft or the bankruptcy proceedings were holding things up.
Can anyone shed any light on whether they are going to increase frequency and/or whether this is a smart move for HA given QF and AC are on the route as well?
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 29179 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (11 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3893 times:
Indeed HA does have a lack of aircraft. In order to make SYD happen they did have to cut some mainland service.
I have however heard questions regarding the profitability of the Sydney services. Good loads are one thing, however making money on them might be another.
Hawaiian has been having to discount the service greatly amongst the mainland travel agent community. They have been offering some very low net rates including a free Hawaii stop over and even roundtrip inter island flights for those on the West Coast willing to use them to Australia and other Pacific destinations like Tahiti.
HA cannot support HNL-SYD service solely on the demand from the islands and Australia without connections to/from the mainland.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
StevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3588 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1): I have however heard questions regarding the profitability of the Sydney services. Good loads are one thing, however making money on them might be another.
Hawaiian has been having to discount the service greatly amongst the mainland travel agent community. They have been offering some very low net rates including a free Hawaii stop over and even roundtrip inter island flights for those on the West Coast willing to use them to Australia
Yep...just like I figured...QF and UA are kicking HA's ass to the point where they're just barely making it. A full 763 is one thing, but profitable 744's between SYD and LAX (SFO for UA) are quite another! Why stop in HNL when you go nonstop from LAX or SFO????
Ha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3739 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (11 years 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3520 times:
Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 3): They did drop ONT right before starting SYD. Remember the $99 fares last year.
Quoting Gemuser (Reply 4): They squeezed an extra 20 odd hour flight out of available equipment, 3/4 days a week??
Got any details of this you would care to share?
They did announce that they were stopping ONT and starting SYD around the same time. But, HA also announced a 2nd seasonal SEA flight for the summer at the same day they announced the end of ONT service. ONT was doing so poorly that it wasn't even daily and by the time it got dropped was down to 4 flights a week. This meant that HA had an aircraft not flying on those days without ONT service.
The 2nd SEA flight started the day after the last ONT flight. It was using this aircraft on the days that didn't have the 2nd SEA flight that HA was able to do SYD without another aircraft. This is also why the SYD flight originally was numbered 21/22, it was using aircraft that were coming from the SEA rotation. HA is doing this again this summer, with a 2nd SEA flight on the days with no SYD flight.
Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 5): Yep...just like I figured...QF and UA are kicking HA's ass to the point where they're just barely making it. A full 763 is one thing, but profitable 744's between SYD and LAX (SFO for UA) are quite another! Why stop in HNL when you go nonstop from LAX or SFO????
HA main business is to bring pax to Hawaii and the SYD flight is to bring Australian tourist to Hawaii. However, since they were using an aircraft that is also in the SEA rotation, they also marketed it as a same day connection to Australia from the West Coast to help fill the flight down to Australia.
HALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1442 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (11 years 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3460 times:
Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 5): Yep...just like I figured...QF and UA are kicking HA's ass to the point where they're just barely making it.
Another ignorant post by someone with no facts to back up his statement. Who says HA is "just barely making it"? I work these flights every week and loads are good and yield is high. Cargo between SYD and HNL is also very good. Just flew in this morning from SYD with another heavy load.
I'll tell you why. There are many people that would rather get a good nights sleep in their own beds, leave the west coast in the morning and arrive in SYD in the early evening and get a good nights sleep as opposed to flying with UA or QF and leaving late at night and flying 14 hours only to arrive early in the morning, tired but forced to stay awake for hours until either their hotel rooms are available, or it's a decent hour to go to bed. We are getting more and more American passengers on our flights. If you lived in SEA, PDX, SAN, SMF, where would you rather connect, in SFO/LAX and take a redeye, or connect in HNL with a free stopover? It's a no-brainer!
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
PanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3237 times:
I don't know how all the load factors are, but I recently had a devil of a time getting a friend of mine from Hilo (ITO) to San Diego.
There was no problem with the ITO-HNL, SAN-HNL, or HNL-ITO legs. The problem was HNL-SAN for the entire month of April was almost completely sold out. No seat was available for less than $600.
It ended up that he booked himself HNL-LAX and I drove up and picked him up. He reported that his HNL-LAX segment was only about half full (this was the flight that arrived around 11 PM), but his SAN-HNL segment was quite full.
And in answer to the question about where I as a San Diegan would prefer to transfer, very definitely the answer would be Honolulu - of course, if HA threw in a free flight to ITO for me to spend a few days there, I'd be even more thrilled!!
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
ETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2297 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3029 times:
A word of caution about those DOT figures- AC numbers aren't true HNL boardings as the aircraft usually arrives into HNL full from YVR, so their numbers are distorted. AC does not sell many HNL-SYD and v.v. tickets.
HA numbers should exceed QF's now as HA flights only commenced in May 04.
There was a similar issue with Australian DOT numbers involving UTA in the 90's- the flight arrived full from NOU and the SYD transit numbers inferred they only had a load factor of 30% when in fact SYD had very few seats available to sell.