EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6734 posts, RR: 50 Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3091 times:
My feelings exactly. It will be very interesting to see in a month or two what DL's loads have been and, hopefully, with the help of an insider, if the yields have been good. Best of luck to DL!
Panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4292 posts, RR: 28 Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3007 times:
Flew the inaugural DL78 JFK-TXL last night. Here's a quick recap:
A/C: 767-300ER Reg: N181DN
Sched Dep: 1800
Left JFK Gate 6: 1759
Left JFK 1837
Sched Arr: 0815+
Arr TXL Gate 1 0802+ (13 minutes EARLY)
Load: 29 Business and 140 Economy passengers = 169 total out of 199 seats
Each seat had an inaugural flight certificate on it when we boarded. DL personnel were handing out Berlin fact booklets at gate and inflatable neck cushions in the jetway. There were some speeches at the gate area by DL managers and a rep from the German embassy in Washington D.C. In BusinessElite, a small gift was handed out to each pax. in addition to the regular menu. The gift was a silver card holder with the Delta logo on it - very nice touch. Captain's wife was on board as well and he tried to speak German in his PAs although he did concede that he was much better at flying than with German. Overall service was great and most of the f/as were German speakers.
Touched down early at around 0755 and then taxied to a water cannon salute from two firetrucks and lots of waving airport personnel and photographers. Parked at Gate 1 ahead of schedule. Volunteers in the bag claim area distributing cuddly Berlin bears. Big welcoming band and a dressed up "Statue of Liberty" just outside the Customs area. Got out and saw tons of ads all over the airport for both the DL JFK service as well as CO's upcoming EWR service.
The inaugural return today DL79 was overbooked in Economy. Actually, the loads for both May and June both ways are quite heavy particularly in Economy. Weekend days are often overbooked...although they were offering some very attractive intro fares in this market...
FraT From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 1084 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2992 times:
I think the real test comes when the summer season is over. Both carriers shouldn't have problems to fill the flights until September. CO has an advantage as they only need to fill 16 BF seats.
Let's talk again in October/November, that's when both will have problems making a profit on this route.
Lindy Field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3052 posts, RR: 17 Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2907 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD DATABASE EDITOR
Sounds cool, I should have gone down to the airport to watch it come in. Instead I went to work. Maybe I'll go over the weekend to try to get some photos suitable for myaviation.net.
Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4175 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2876 times:
AA tried ORD-TXL in the early 90s. I think part of the problem was that so much of the German government was still in Bonn, and many West German companies hadn't set up operations yet in the former East Germany.
Now that the government is in Berlin, and business has spread out to the eastern part of Germany, my guess is that U.S. carriers flying to Berlin will have a lot more business traffic.
If DL does well, I'd like to see AA try ORD-TXL again. Since the Star carriers (UA and LH) seemed focused on connecting traffic through FRA and MUC, this could be a good opportunity for AA.
Tsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 540 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2775 times:
Quoting FraT (Reply 4): CO has an advantage as they only need to fill 16 BF seats.
Let's talk again in October/November, that's when both will have problems making a profit on this route.
I tend to disagree as DL will be operating a 763 on the route compared to CO's 752, so cargo/mail revenue will be a part of the equation for DL and not for CO...hopefully Both carriers will succeed, its nice to see Berlin the capital of Germany finally getting direct service from the US.
Berlinflyer From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 94 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2572 times:
Quoting Ckfred (Reply 6): AA tried ORD-TXL in the early 90s. I think part of the problem was that so much of the German government was still in Bonn, and many West German companies hadn't set up operations yet in the former East Germany.
This is true. It was just far too early and with Delta, TWA and United there was a lot of competition for a market that was not strong enough by that time. Since then Berlin has also become a major tourist spot in Europe. All in all there is for sure a lot more potential than 1992.
Currently it seems that Berlin will soon see more direct intercontinental service. Hong Kong, Shanghai or Beijing and Bangkok are frequently mentioned by officials, followed by Qatar or Dubai. This could change the situation for Lufthansa, as people from the region could get used to prefering the nonstop links over hubbing through Frankfurt or Munich with LH - which I hope.
ZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5464 posts, RR: 46 Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 weeks ago) and read 2468 times:
Why shouldn't two 763 per day between Berlin and NYC work. Zurich as a much smaller city has four flights a day: two 763 (AA, CO) one 343 (sometimes 332, LX) and one 737 BBJ (PrivatAir by LX)
RwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 2908 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2426 times:
Quoting ZRH (Reply 10): Why shouldn't two 763 per day between Berlin and NYC work. Zurich as a much smaller city has four flights a day: two 763 (AA, CO) one 343 (sometimes 332, LX) and one 737 BBJ (PrivatAir by LX)
True, but Zurich also has a much larger business (banks, financial institutions, etc.) base to support higher-yield fares. Berlin is still primarily a tourist destination, although I'm sure DL will do a good job of getting government traffic and there will be some business travel (just not as much as Zurich).
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 9340 posts, RR: 63 Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2407 times:
Quoting Ckfred (Reply 6): If DL does well, I'd like to see AA try ORD-TXL again.
I would live to see AA back in TXL also, but I don't see it happening for two reasons. First is the market penetartion of UA/LH (*A) in the US-Germany market. AA used to be huge in Germany with flights to MUC, DUS, TXL, and FRA from ORD/DFW/JFK. The second reason is O&D. Connections over ORD are great, but not particularly high-yielding, and there is just not too much ORD-TXL O&D. US-TXL O&D is centered on New York because of business connections and IAD because of government connections. CO/DL will have New York-Berlin sewn up with their two daily flights this summer, and UA/LH have IAD-Berlin dominated with connections over FRA. AA wouldn't be able to fit into this party, at least not yet, but hopefully in a couple of years!
It won't be 2 763ERs per day, it will be 1 763ER and 1 752
Quoting RwSEA (Reply 11): True, but Zurich also has a much larger business (banks, financial institutions, etc.) base to support higher-yield fares. Berlin is still primarily a tourist destination, although I'm sure DL will do a good job of getting government traffic and there will be some business travel (just not as much as Zurich).
Berlin has business traffic, it is just already well served by carriers out of their hubs. It is too far east to be a European hub, and FRA/LHR/CDG/AMS/MUC/ZRH are already all established. Germany's flag carrier alone has tons of FRA-TXL and MUC-TXL flights, facilitating connections for most of the traffic
Quoting ZRH" class=quote target=_blank>ZRH (Reply 10): Zurich as a much smaller city has four flights a day: two 763 (AA, CO) one 343 (sometimes 332, LX) and one 737 BBJ (PrivatAir by LX)
CO does not fly 763s at all, rather they fly a 762 to ZRH.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4292 posts, RR: 28 Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2063 times:
DL's bookings look much better than expected so far for JFK-TXL. According to a DL spokesperson who was interviewed during inaugural week, they are booked to around 90% on JFK-TXL and 85% on TXL-JFK in May while June and July bookings are averaging over 80% so far. The better news is that even BusinessElite bookings are way above expectations - more than 70% booked for May (that means an average of around 24-25 C pax per flight)
In fact, when checking availability, I'm amazed at how some JFK-TXL flights have actually 1 or 0 seats left in Business Class for some May dates and even early June...that's even better than some of DL's other transatlantic flights. As many have already noted, the Business Class loads are usually the problem for TXL...hopefully these numbers can be sustained...
GoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 700 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1811 times:
Quoting Panamair (Reply 14): DL's bookings look much better than expected so far for JFK-TXL. According to a DL spokesperson who was interviewed during inaugural week, they are booked to around 90% on JFK-TXL and 85% on TXL-JFK in May while June and July bookings are averaging over 80% so far.
Nice for DL. I thought than many of the early bookings were due to the specials they were offering, but if they can maintain it into July, it must be good for them. The larger test will be during the winter, when CO will have the advantage not having to fill a larger plane. (Although cargo could be a plus for DL, but I imagine most German bound cargo heads for FRA)
Anyone know how CO's bookings are going?
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
Pelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2525 posts, RR: 10 Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1773 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 13): Berlin has business traffic, it is just already well served by carriers out of their hubs. It is too far east to be a European hub, and FRA/LHR/CDG/AMS/MUC/ZRH are already all established.
One slightly correction Berlin is not too far east - it's not much more than 50 miles east of MUC or CPH and not more than 200 miles of FRA.
Quoting B742 (Reply 15): There's some pics posted over at MyAviation.net!
Thanks for sharing - I've looking for some time for the DL pictures in the DB.
Quoting Panamair (Reply 14): In fact, when checking availability, I'm amazed at how some JFK-TXL flights have actually 1 or 0 seats left in Business Class for some May dates and even early June...
A380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 935 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1639 times:
What's the status of Berlin airport wise? I remember that one of the airports is supposed to close. Are there any plans for a brand new airport? Is the growth capacity of existing airport enough?
Pelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2525 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1523 times:
Quoting A380900 (Reply 20): What's the status of Berlin airport wise? I remember that one of the airports is supposed to close. Are there any plans for a brand new airport? Is the growth capacity of existing airport enough?
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6500 posts, RR: 5 Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1519 times:
Quoting A380900 (Reply 20): What's the status of Berlin airport wise? I remember that one of the airports is supposed to close. Are there any plans for a brand new airport? Is the growth capacity of existing airport enough?
Tempelhof is supposed to be closed for political reasons many airlines prefer this old airport due to its location within the city. You can compare it with London City Airport if you like. Some airlines like DBA want to buy THF if the Berlin goverment decides to close this airport and run it on their own.
According to some new press release not only DBA wants to change some flights from Berlin Tegel to Tempelhof but also Hapag-Lloyd Express (excuse me Hapagfly-Express )
They are plans to build a new airport called BBI (Berlin Brandenburg International) on the aerial of the old East-Berlin airport Schönefeld but like every major infrastructure project in Germany there are still some obstacles to take like some court decisions etc........if build the airport won´t be in use before 2012-2015.
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
Namaskar From Switzerland, joined Dec 2004, 56 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1428 times:
I just booked my parents on Continental for late August: SNA-EWR-TXL and v.v. It will be nice for them because SNA is only 15 minutes from their home. No need to drive to LAX and the only one-stop route to TXL from SNA. I'll let you know their impressions.
26 777gk: Word on the street is that DL is putting the crews up at the Ritz-Carlton in Berlin, not too bad!
27 Berlinflyer: possible, but this is because the Berlin hotels support the flights of DL and CO by accomodating their crews for free for the duration of half a year
28 Avianca: I do not think they will make so much revenue with cargo/mail on the route. Berlin direct markte is not so big. Most forwarders consolidate the Berli
29 Panamair: There is a program for the DL crews (don't know about CO) to rotate their stays at various five star luxury hotels in Berlin for a limited time...on
30 Pelican: I would appreciate a trip report. pelican
31 Panamair: I wrote a very abbreviated summary of the inaugural JFK-TXL flight above (in Reply 3)..will write a real detailed one when I get the chance (did take
32 Tsnamm: Be that as it may...compared to Continentals 752, which will be carrying only baggage, even transfer cargo from Middle Eastern carriers, what little
33 Avianca: I do not think the freight will make the flt profitable, how much will be the cargo revenue on the flights? Eastbound maybe 4000USD and Westbound may
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