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Will UA FA's Strike On May 10th?  
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4596 posts, RR: 18
Posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5889 times:

I was reading about the planned termination of 4 UA pensions and that the FA's have threatened to strike on May 10th if that happens. Do you think this will happen and would it mark the end of UA?


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5829 times:

I highly doubt you will see an all out strike. What will likely happen in a CHAOS strike. Ranom walkouts of certain flights with little or no notice. A complete shutdown of UAL? Unlikely.

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5811 times:

Quoting Indy (Thread starter):
would it mark the end of UA

We all know you want UA's ORD hub to die one way or another, perhaps the flight attendants will provide at least some of the means to that end.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12181 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5799 times:

Quoting Indy (Thread starter):
I was reading about the planned termination of 4 UA pensions and that the FA's have threatened to strike on May 10th if that happens. Do you think this will happen and would it mark the end of UA?

With the way UA (and US) have been acting during their bankruptcy (dumping their pension package on the US taxpayers, and the US baggage "stunt" over Christmas), does anyone really care?

If UA and US liquidated today, there would be a marked improvement in customer service in the US airline industry (even if nothing else changes).

Quoting Aa777flyer (Reply 1):
I highly doubt you will see an all out strike. What will likely happen in a CHAOS strike. Ranom walkouts of certain flights with little or no notice.

That will show the paying passengers who is really the boss around here.

"On behalf of our unions, I want to thank you for coming out today just to sit and waste time on our aircraft, at the gate, because we ain't going anywhere".


User currently offlineMcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1487 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5776 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
If UA and US liquidated today, there would be a marked improvement in customer service in the US airline industry (even if nothing else changes).

How in the world could you make that remark? UAL was the only major US carrier to rank in the top 5 of the recent survey of the industry in terms of service. UAL has a very good product. While the F/A's and the mechanics speak vociferously in the media I would bet you $100 there is no strike. For one very good reason is that under the current BK law it would be illegal.

Perhaps a little research would do you some good on this subject versus the trashing of an airline that can provide you transportation to almost any corner of the globe.


User currently offlineJdaniel001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5752 times:

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 4):
How in the world could you make that remark? UAL was the only major US carrier to rank in the top 5 of the recent survey of the industry in terms of service. UAL has a very good product.

I can't believe to validated his comment by replying. I was going to ignore him. But..UA and US are doing the right things. They may not be popular, but it is the key to survivability. I personally thought that the US government got rid of pensions after BN went bankrupt in 1982. Customer service has drastically improved at all airlines over the past 5 years or so. Airlines are trying to tie in loyalty with profit and a smile. Go figure. Maybe there is such a thing as a million dollor smile.


User currently offlineCasInterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4796 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5669 times:

For some people this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

All the employees of UA are reeling from some big choices made by management in regards to the future of the company. However management does not seem to be reciprocating amongs the ranks, and i do not see how UA will make it even with concessions from the employess with such rash and careless management. US airways hopefully will go first, but don't put it past the employees in the trenches to help swing down this airline.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5662 times:

BETER TO EAT AT MCDONALDS THAN WORK THERE  Smile

User currently offlineMcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1487 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5639 times:

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 6):
However management does not seem to be reciprocating amongs the ranks, and i do not see how UA will make it even with concessions from the employess with such rash and careless managemen

I am curious about this statement. What are you referring to in this regards? Where has the management been careless? They have been making difficult decisions that for the most part were not unexpected. If you work for UAL and felt the Defined Benefit plan was going to still be an option after BK you were asleep at the wheel.

In the case of the F/A's, rampers and mechanics the PBGC payout is almost no different than the UAL payout would have been. Where are the facts to this story when you need them.

As far as pay is concerned. Sure it sucks to take a cut but you are always free to vote with your feet. If a job does not pay my bills I look for another job.

There seems to be too many of the other carrier employees that want UAL to fail so they can claim a portion of the routes or fleet. Fine wish what you want but it might just be your carrier in the cross hairs in the near future if UAL is able to exit with a significant cost advantage.


User currently offlineCasInterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4796 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5615 times:

I have seen it from another industry in the past 5 years, all this cutting, and the lack of doing the right thing from the onset of bankruptcy leads me to believe that United's management is not up to the task. Hard feelings cause a lot of pain, no matter how hard United's management is running to save the sinking ship. the fact of the matter is that management plowed the ship into an iceburg, and failed to realize that it was really sinking until much to late.


Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 693 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5611 times:

I doubt either the F/As or the mechanics will strike. This is just positioning by the unions- all smoke and mirrors. I wish the folks at UAL my best, though.

User currently offlineC133 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5597 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

The PBGC was, I think, set up to rescue people whose companies went out of business. What is the logic or fairness of UAL deciding they no longer want to keep the promises made to their employees, so their pension obligations will be transferred to the nation's taxpayers! (For another thread is the competitive advantage this gives them; again, courtesy of the taxpayer.)

Let the flames begin.........



Fine: Tax for doing wrong. Tax: Fine for doing well.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17828 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5564 times:

Maybe Indy Air WON'T be the first to go kaputt after all...


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5555 times:

KC135TOPBOOM,
Take alook at this...im sure ual and usair had a hand in this as well..http://www.detnews.com/2005/business/0505/01/B01-167245.htm



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineMcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1487 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5500 times:

Quoting C133 (Reply 11):
The PBGC was, I think, set up to rescue people whose companies went out of business. What is the logic or fairness of UAL deciding they no longer want to keep the promises made to their employees, so their pension obligations will be transferred to the nation's taxpayers! (For another thread is the competitive advantage this gives them; again, courtesy of the taxpayer.)

C133,

If UAL were to liquidate who would pick up the pensions? The PBGC, correct? So UAL staying in business or going out of business results in the same ending for the pensions.

Now you say taxpayers pay this. Please review how the PBGC raises funds. Issuance of bonds and other revenue streams pay the bill not taxpayers.

The following is directly from the PBGC website.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Money PBGC Takes In and Pays Out

PBGC is not funded by general tax revenues. PBGC collects insurance premiums from employers that sponsor insured pension plans, earns money from investments and receives funds from pension plans it takes over. PBGC pays monthly retirement benefits, up to a guaranteed maximum, to about 518,000 retirees in 3,479 pension plans that ended. Including those who have not yet retired and participants in multiemployer plans receiving financial assistance, PBGC is responsible for the current and future pensions of about 1,061,000 people.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12181 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5455 times:

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 8):
In the case of the F/A's, rampers and mechanics the PBGC payout is almost no different than the UAL payout would have been. Where are the facts to this story when you need them.

I still don't understand why the US taxpayers have to pick up the costs of the UA pension program. Is it to help save the company? If it is, this amounts to nothing more than a fat government subsidy. If it is good enough for UA and US, why not let Ford, GM, AA, GE, DL, P&W and every other company on hard times do it too?

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 8):
There seems to be too many of the other carrier employees that want UAL to fail so they can claim a portion of the routes or fleet. Fine wish what you want but it might just be your carrier in the cross hairs in the near future if UAL is able to exit with a significant cost advantage.

I do not work for any airline. But the industry has way too much capacity now. Weeding out the weakest carriers will simply adjust the industry to a service level that can be supported by the surviving carriers. The current very high fuel prices may end up being a cloud with a silver lining for the industry if it speeds up the liquidation of US and UA and forces the desert parking of their airplanes. But, that will not garantee a profit for the surviving carriers, they will still have to earn that themselves.

If US and UA both emerge from their bankruptcy successfully, they will not have a "significant cost advantage" for very long. Neither one is a LCC, nor will they become one. So their financial advantage will not last long. Their labor unions will see to that. How long was US out of the first bankruptcy before they filed for protection again? Less than 1 year, IIRC. Additionally, that may force DL into bankruptcy protection, and possibly AA, too.

The US and UA cases are very different than the TZ bankruptcy. TZ managed to sell some of the gates (at MDW) and other assets to WN and have been reducing the size of their fleet by returning leased aircraft, thus they are reducing their excess capacity. UA and US, on the other hand continue to except deliveries of A-319, A-320, A-330 (US), and E-170 aircraft, while parking their classic B-737, B-767 (US) and B-777 (UA). This leads me to believe that UA/US are maintaining their capacity at approximately their pre-bankruptcy levels, or if they are reducing capacity, they are doing it a lot slower than TZ is. Yes, I know that TZ is looking for B-767-300ERs, but those will only replace the L-1011-500s, so there is no real change in the TZ military contract capacity.

Additionally the TZ/WN semi-merger will help both of these carriers and WN is now on the hook to see that TZ writes a business plan that will allow them to exit Chapter 11.

It does not appear that either UA or US is interested in writing an exit plan from bankruptcy. I also don't see what advantage America West could get for helping US Airways. But, there must be something or America West wouldn't be talking to US at all. I also don't see anyone stepping up to the plate to talk to UA to possibly help them with an exit plan.

The worst thing that will happen to the US airline industry is to allow US and UA to continue to operate under the protection of the bankruptcy court. That is where these two carriers have a "significant cost advantage" over their competition.

The faster United Airlines and US Airways liquidate, the better it will be for the surviving airlines. Both the UA and US employees already have their pensions protected. Instead of a threat to strike, they should be using their time looking for another job.


User currently offlineRsmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 194 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5423 times:

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 4):
For one very good reason is that under the current BK law it would be illegal.

There is no law under the BK code that makes it ilegal for employes to strike infact BK law TRUMPS the Railroad Act that you really are thinking of so Bush will not be able to invoke it.

The employes of UAL have earned the right to strike. They have had their livings RAPED while those EXECs whos offices are located in the Ivory Towers in Elk Grove Village have not taken any serious paycut at least enough for them to have to make lifestyle changes or worry about how they'll make the mortgage.

The company need to have a wakeup call as to who really is the one who make the airline work......that day is coming soon.



Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3310 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5423 times:

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 13):
KC135TOPBOOM,
Take alook at this...im sure ual and usair had a hand in this as well..

http://www.detnews.com/2005/business/0505/01/B01-167245.htm



"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineRogerThat From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5308 times:

Quoting Rsmith6621a (Reply 16):
EXECs whos offices are located in the Ivory Towers in Elk Grove Village have not taken any serious paycut at least enough for them to have to make lifestyle changes or worry about how they'll make the mortgage.

Do you not think Tilton would be making bucket loads more had he stayed in the oil patch?


User currently offlineFA4UA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 812 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5282 times:

I'm concerned because there is no precedence about workforce strikes with airlines in Chapter 11. No carrier in Chapter 11 has ever struck (is what my little bit of research shows). If the firm imposes cuts, (whatever they are, pensions, work rule changes, etc) can't it be assumed that it's just part of the Chapter 11 process of restructuring?

I'd hate to see FA's, rampers, or anyone striking to prove how upset they are about loosing their pensions, and then end up fired since this is all happening within the court under the Chapter 11 umbrella. Not to mention the multimillion dollar fines that would be imposed on the Unions themselves from the court for obstruction!

Anybody out there have more info on this idea?

FA4UA



The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
User currently offlineC133 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5252 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 14):
PBGC is not funded by general tax revenues. PBGC collects insurance premiums from employers that sponsor insured pension plans, earns money from investments and receives funds from pension plans it takes over.

I'm happy to learn that, but doesn't the situation feel a lot like a slowly sinking boat? Or maybe a Ponzi scheme? And there can be no doubt who the payer of last resort going to be........



Fine: Tax for doing wrong. Tax: Fine for doing well.
User currently offlineBluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5236 times:

If those UA FAs strike, they may not have a job to return to. They are biting the hand that feeds them, especially since UA is doing what they can to exit bankruptcy. A strike right now will hurt BOTH UA and the FAs. It's a lose-lose stiuation.

Retirement pensions and 401Ks are benefits that an employee receives, not an obligation of the employer. It is offered to each employee, and the employee's choice to enroll (or not).

From a business standpoint, a strike will cause the airline to LOSE money, because flights will be canceled and tickets refunded, yet the airlines will have to still pay airport fees and pay the other employees. Not only that, but the flying public may not return to flying UA, and take their allegiances to another airline.

If UA decides to scale down because of a strike (and the aftermath), those striking FAs have kissed their jobs goodbye.



"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4596 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5233 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 2):
We all know you want UA's ORD hub to die one way or another, perhaps the flight attendants will provide at least some of the means to that end.

That isn't exactly an accurate statement. I think it should be scaled back to cut down on delays that have such a negative impact on the network. But that isn't the point of this discussion. My concern isn't UA and any hub or city but rather the workers that have dedicated their working lives to UA just to have the possibility of having their retirement security stolen from them. It is even more disappointing to me as a tax payer to think that my taxes will pay for their pensions while UA is allowed to stay in operation. If they are going to stay in operation then they need to complete their obligation to their employees and pay them the wages they have earned and your retirement is an earned wage. It is simply defered. If the tax payers are going to foot the bill then UA needs to be shut down.

I would fully support the FA's and their strike. I would not support any union games like sick outs and garbage like that. But the employees would have every right to walk out.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineMcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1487 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5200 times:

"My concern isn't UA and any hub or city but rather the workers that have dedicated their working lives to UA just to have the possibility of having their retirement security stolen from them. It is even more disappointing to me as a tax payer to think that my taxes will pay for their pensions while UA is allowed to stay in operation."

indy,

did you happen to read the following from the pbgc website?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Money PBGC Takes In and Pays Out

PBGC is not funded by general tax revenues. PBGC collects insurance premiums from employers that sponsor insured pension plans, earns money from investments and receives funds from pension plans it takes over. PBGC pays monthly retirement benefits, up to a guaranteed maximum, to about 518,000 retirees in 3,479 pension plans that ended. Including those who have not yet retired and participants in multiemployer plans receiving financial assistance, PBGC is responsible for the current and future pensions of about 1,061,000 people.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Indy,

How do you get that you are paying your tax dollars for UA retirements? If you are so opposed to UA retirements being paid then why not lobby the change in the court system? How about the US pensions? Where is your outrage of paying those pensions? Again UA survives or liquidates the PBGC gets the bill. (not the taxpayers, please read the PBGC website to correct your misinterpatations) You just want the employees of UAL to be unemployed it is plane and simple from your arguments that if UAL liquidates your company stands to have some type of gain. Again, you may be the airline in the crosshairs very soon. Should we celebrate the quick death of your carrier?


User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5179 times:

United: the new Eastern. This might be the beginning of the end.

The IAM members are voting today here in Los Angeles. My wife is voting for the strike authorization because she is afraid the union will retaliate against her. She actually has little reason to vote for the strike because she did not participate in the pension plan and she does not depend on the income.


25 Speedport : There is no law under the BK code that makes it ilegal for employes to strike... Is there a law in the BK code that forces people to work if they don'
26 Post contains images Mcdu : AA, The UAL situation and the eastern situation are very different. The company went on strike then BK versus the proposed scenario that is being bant
27 Indy : Mcdu... if the pensions are going to be convered by an insurance than thats fine. So long as the workers don't get screwed out of their retirement. An
28 Rsmith6621a : I am losing my job on June 4th. I work for UAL in the Seattle RES center and we are closing(413 affected) as a result of OUTSOURCING and CORPORATE GRE
29 Laxintl : For starters the May 10th, is merely a hearing date to have court to listen to United's request allowing the carrier to transfer its pension programs
30 Mcdu : lax, Well said. Bravo!
31 Indy : I don't think it matters how much of a contract you breech for it to be considered a breech. And the courts cannot force them to work. That would be e
32 CasInterest : lax ... "Several unions have been working under 90-day agreements while negotiating over concessions and pensions. They expire next Tuesday." That wou
33 Rsmith6621a : Its not like you couldnt replace the income that the airlines have reduced their employees down to.....I think Wendy;s is pay better than what I make
34 LHRCS : Being on the front line I have daily contact with the crew and yes they are pissed with everything that is happening. But to me it does seems that its
35 Indy : While I don't wish unemployment on the hard working people of UA I would think the failing of UA would be a blessing for AA. They would have then lost
36 ASAFA : It's funny how all the people who cheer for the demise of UA and US are the same people who demand $39 fares for every flight. Watch those airlines di
37 Laxintl : Thank you. I am well aware of the temporary agreements. Who is to say however that these agreements will not be extended while the company and unions
38 Rsmith6621a : Thanks Indy and I already have....doing what I have been training for,Aircraft Dispatcher. I am not vengeful at all.....I am simply pissed that the n
39 Mcdu : When is a monopoly good?
40 TWA902fly : Don't mix US an UA together. UA is reducing capacity. They are parking their 735s and 733s, while recieving a smaller quantity of Airbii, as well as
41 Indy : It is good when you are the one with the monopoly. AA will be able to charge prices that actually result in a profit.
42 Squirrel83 : The pension issue will be back up in bankruptcy court one week from Tuesday. The airline says it remains willing to discuss alternatives to government
43 UALPHLCS : The US created the PBGC. So once again we have a tool created by the US government, which people don't want to be used. I don't get it. If it's OK fo
44 FA4UA : LAXINTL, if I could AGAIN put you on my respected users list I would. Your comments are always very thorough and well grounded. I know I'm in the mino
45 Jetdeltamsy : anything like a strike that would disrupt UA's revenue stream would certainly accelerate the company's demise.
46 BRAVO7E7 : FA4UA, I COMPLETELY agree with you. What SOME are failing to realize is that United is not doing this to be the big evil bully, but rather to try to e
47 FA4UA : I agree... I think 90% of this stuff is just Sabre rattling. FA4UA
48 Commavia : I agree. I doubt that a full-out, old-fashioned physical walkout (i.e., the entire United universe comes to a grinding halt) will actually occur. I j
49 PVD757 : I think a major point of contention is missing in this discussion. United hasn't been paying into these pensions for a while now. They are all underfu
50 Commavia : I think UA has been factoring the financial impact of not contributing to their employees' pensions into their financial reporting for several years.
51 StevenUhl777 : How would they know how she voted? Sure, she signs up to vote, but does she put her name on the ACTUAL ballot? Your comment doesn't make sense. I'm s
52 LHRCS : Personally I feel we are very lucky to have Tilton. I dont envy him one bit considering the decisions he has had to make plus the ones he will have to
53 Post contains images Galapagapop : And that still might not be enough to get UA out
54 AADC10 : My wife is not too bright. I am just stating what she told me. Perhaps it is not a secret ballot. The employees probably ask each other how they vote
55 Avek00 : Tilton said that UAL's bankruptcy would last 18 months. Three years later...
56 Ckfred : The real uncertainty is, in the event that the bankruptcy court does grant UA's motion to terminate its pensions, whether the unions have the right to
57 Avek00 : The issue of whether a workgroup governed under the RLA would have a right to strike after a contract abrogation under bankruptcy would be a question
58 StevenUhl777 : It's certainly possible that he made such a statement, however his fate ultimately depends on who takes control of UAL, and if they'll want him to st
59 Post contains links and images Lightsaber : Per Adam Smith, never. (Stiffles innovation or the current term "creative destruction.") I've read a bunch about good and bad about striking on this
60 StevenUhl777 : 1. Not sure on RASM (maybe check the most recent SEC filing for that...10K I think) but the CASM was posted on the site within a few days ago...10.65
61 Loyal2UA : FA4UA- - - United truly needs more employees of your nature. I am constantly impressed with how the UA family keeps moral at a pleasant and professio
62 ANCFlyer : Honestly glad to hear you're already secure in another job RSmith . . . good for you. I hope UA survives, but I wish this outsourcing of American job
63 CasInterest : HAHAHA As Opposed to when UA had this 200Mln in local Revenue, before pissing off ACA. UA has made it's bed, and even if FLYI folded, Jetblue would b
64 Mcdu : "HAHAHA As Opposed to when UA had this 200Mln in local Revenue, before pissing off ACA. UA has made it's bed, and even if FLYI folded, Jetblue would b
65 Tu154 : The talk I'm hearing around the cabin is that everyone is fed up with the AFA and their bitching and moaning! We have too many EAL and PAA people arou
66 KC135TopBoom : Surveys, like staticstics will show anything you want them too. They are nothing more than polls. Just look at how the news media stacks their polls
67 Post contains links ExFATboy : In case anyone's curious, that term was coined by economist Joseph Schumpeter in his book Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy, originally published b
68 Uadc8contrail : KC135TOPBOOM, id be more concerned about filling those unused gates at dfw vs wanting ua/us to fold.....
69 UALPHLCS : Well Its the DOT statistics. Before 9-11 happened and the public was up in arms about a passenger Bill of Rights, these stats seemed very important t
70 RogerThat : Count me as someone who wants the bankruptcy laws changed. We all know that once a carrier declares Chapter 11, they get an unfair advantage over the
71 F9HNLPLZ : UALPHLCS, Well put. I want to commend you and your fellow UAL employees for doing such a great job in difficult times. You are truly people to admire
72 LTBEWR : As to comments of the post 9/11 loans/grants to the airlines, US was the most severly affected due to the long shutdown of DCA beyond any other USA ai
73 Lightsaber : Welcome to airliners.net also known as a.nutters! Well written 1st post. I would be B6 would like to bid for the gates, does anyone know who holds th
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