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NW DC-10-30´s Origins.  
User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 4 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4439 times:

Hi!

In AMS I was quite amazed to see a nice concentration of NW DC-10-30´s. Of course this are 2nd. hand ones because originally NW ordered the 40 version. Now can anyone tell me were all these 30 versions came from and why they replaced the 40´s by the 30´s.
Regards

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4428 times:

I believe they are a mix of SAS, Swissair and Continental DC-10-30's but I could be wrong.

Cleared to land 26R DHL 200


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4416 times:

Some more late-model -30's were from Thai and JAS - these were from among the last batch of 10's delivered in 1987/88.


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6895 posts, RR: 63
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4390 times:

The -40 (with PW engines) was flown by very few airlines (I can only immediately think of NW and JAL) so if they wanted to acquire second-hand planes they really had little option but to get -30s with GE CF6s.

As for their origins, some (4 or 5 from memory) certainly came from Swissair as the latter replaced them with MD11s. I flew AMS-IAD-AMS on NW DC-10s in 2002 and hoped to fly on a plane that I'd previously flown on in its SR days but it didn't happen. Sad


User currently offlineTitch From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 328 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4394 times:

Hi guys,

Quick rundown of what came from where:

N229NW c/n 46551 delivered to KLM ROYAL DUTCH AIRLINES (03-Dec-72)
N230NW c/n 46552 delivered to KLM ROYAL DUTCH AIRLINES (06-Feb-73)
N221NW c/n 46579 delivered to SWISSAIR (06-Feb-74)
N211NW c/n 46868 delivered to SAS (01-Oct-74)
N223NW c/n 46580 delivered to SWISSAIR (11-Jan-75)
N236NW c/n 46934 delivered to KOREAN AIR (09-Feb-75)
N234NW c/n 46912 delivered to KOREAN AIR (10-Feb-75)
N224NW c/n 46581 delivered to SWISSAIR (14-Feb-75)
N225NW c/n 46582 delivered to SWISSAIR (21-Feb-75)
N235NW c/n 46915 delivered to KOREAN AIR (25-Apr-75)
N232NW c/n 46961 delivered to THAI AIRWAYS INTERNATIONAL (05-May-77)
N233NW c/n 46640 delivered to MALAYSIA AIRLINES (21-Sep-77)
N227NW c/n 46969 delivered to SWISSAIR (21-Oct-77)
N226NW c/n 46583 delivered to SWISSAIR (03-Mar-80)
N237NW c/n 47844 delivered to VARIG (10-Nov-80)
N241NW c/n 48282 delivered to VARIG (30-Apr-81)
N242NW c/n 47845 delivered to VARIG (09-Jun-81)
N238NW c/n 48267 delivered to THAI AIRWAYS INTERNATIONAL (01-Dec-87)
N239NW c/n 48290 delivered to THAI AIRWAYS INTERNATIONAL (22-Dec-87)
N243NW c/n 48315 delivered to TOA DOMESTIC AIRLINES (31-Mar-88)
N240NW c/n 48319 delivered to THAI AIRWAYS INTERNATIONAL (26-May-88)
N244NW c/n 48316 delivered to KOREAN AIR (29-Jul-88)


Cheers,
Titch



I'll make weapons out of my imperfections
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4213 times:

When NW expanded its transatlantic operations, mainly on flights to AMS in connection with the KLM partnership, and began adding some flights in the Pacific region in the early 1990s, it needed additonal intercontinental range airliners and picked DC10-30s (the list above is great, by the way) on the second hand market. It was a good move for NW for several reasons: NW had experience with the DC-10 (as you pointed out, NW operated the DC-10-40 with PW engines on domestic routes and Hawaiian routes, but NW's -40s were not great on longhaul), NW did not have the money at the time to purchase new airliners (who can forget NW's long delayed, revised and renegotiated order for early delivery A330s/A340s), and many DC-10-30s were becominig available on the second hand market at that time as several airlines were accepting newly delivered MD11s and 763ERs and other types as MD11 replacements (A340 deliveries were beginning back then also)....so NW went out to the "Used-Plane" lot and grabbed lots of DC10-30s from various sources. It is important to note that NW picked up many newer DC10s (such as the ex-Thai, Korean and certain ex-Swissair birds) that are likely to stay with the NW fleet until the last of the A330s (or should I say the first of the 787s, if ordered as rumored) are delivered: I think that a couple of the NW DC-10-30s are the most advanced ER models built just before the line turned over to MD11 production.

CO did the same thing to accomplish its first big international expansion, it picked up lots of DC-10-30s on the second hand market (this is when CO cancelled it order for ten 767-324ERs).....the DC-10-30 was plentiful and cheap at that time, it was well suited for transatlantic routes, and its a workhorse....many of the DC10s acquired by CO and NW were ONLY about 12-15 years old when acquired so they had many years of flying left on them.


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4186 times:

Refresher-Course please on the differences between the -40 and -30?


Delete this User
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3908 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4148 times:

The only difference between the -30 and -40 ar the engines. The -30 uses GE and the -40 uses the Pratts.


AZJ


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4136 times:

In addition to the GE on the -30, the -40 had a very different flap selection/retraction mechanism. The -30 had a "dial a flap" setting for takeoff while the -40 has flaps 19 (IIRC). This was for fleet standardization. The "Rube Goldberg" device was too expensive to put on the -30 and certify.

User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4114 times:

What is the effective range of NW's DC-10-30(ER)? Was PDX-NRT pretty much its maximum? How about cargo performance?

User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4022 times:

Hi!

Thanks for the feedback!

Titch - Thanks a lot for the list of the DC-10-30's NW is using, that's great!

Dutchjet - Very good information that you shared, I also think NW did a great move on that and now I can fully understand why they still have them! By the way AMS must be one of the paradises to see the good old DC-10 besides maybe Detroit and Minneapolis.

Regards


User currently offlineRogerThat From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3941 times:

Don't forget Memphis DC10 lovers


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Photo © John E. Jauchler



User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7565 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3756 times:

MSP still sees a lot of NW DC-10 action, and of course AMS sees a lot.
DTW has had little of the DC-10's in the past year due to all the A330's flying Trans-Atlantic. However, DTW will see 3 daily DC-10's this summer, the most in while since the 5th AMS flight along with FCO & LGW will be DC-10 in May.

NW was very selective in its choice of 2nd hand DC-10-30's hence why they came from a variety of sources.

SFO-NRT was pushing the limits of the DC-10-30, especially westbound with the winds at over 5,100 miles. This flight operated as a 742, then was down-gauged to a DC-10 before switching over to an A330-200.


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3657 times:

How old is the DC-10 fleet then?

User currently offlineDC10GUY From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3536 times:

I have always wondered where the ex-KLM 10's ended up. Thanks. The DC10 is the greatest aircraft of all time. .... ( you may begin arguing now )


Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
User currently offlineTitch From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 328 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3479 times:

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 13):
How old is the DC-10 fleet then?

If you mean the entire operational DC10 fleet, I believe the figures show that the average age is just under 26 years old.

As for Northwest's fleet, the average age is just over 26 years old. Pretty much an even spread.

If you're after individual ages for each of NW's aircraft, check out the table I posted in Reply #4.

Quoting DC10GUY (Reply 14):
I have always wondered where the ex-KLM 10's ended up

PH-DTA (c/n 46550) - ended up with Continental Airlines as N12089, now retired
PH-DTB (c/n 46551) - active with Northwest as N229NW
PH-DTC (c/n 46552) - active with Northwest as N230NW
PH-DTD (c/n 46553) - ended up with Continental Airlines as N14090, now retired
PH-DTE (c/n 46554) - last noted as being operated by Ghana Airways as 9G-PHN, now parked at FCO
PH-DTF (c/n 46555) - ended up with American Airlines as N143AA, now retired
PH-DTH (c/n 46557) - ended up with VIASA as YV-138C, now retired
PH-DTL (c/n 46952) - ended up with Africa One as 5X-ONE, now retired

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Titch



I'll make weapons out of my imperfections
User currently offlineBluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3437 times:

HNL is another place to see NW's DC-10-30s from Japan and SEA.


"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7408 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3386 times:
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Quoting Titch (Reply 4):
N244NW c/n 48316 delivered to KOREAN AIR (29-Jul-88)

Ship 1244 came from JAS when NW bought it



Made from jets!
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6895 posts, RR: 63
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day ago) and read 3374 times:

Quoting Titch (Reply 15):
PH-DTC (c/n 46552) - active with Northwest as N230NW

Good grief! I flew on this plane in February 1994 and it was a rickety old thing then (probably my worst long-haul flight). I hate to think what shape it's in 11 years later...


User currently offlineTitch From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 328 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 1 day ago) and read 3363 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
Ship 1244 came from JAS when NW bought it

Correct, but it was originally delivered to Korean Air - that's what I was getting at in Reply #4. It was bought by Mitsui & Co in 1989, who then leased it to JAS. The aircraft was returned to Mitsui in April 2000 and Northwest purchased it the same month.


Cheers,
Titch



I'll make weapons out of my imperfections
User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 22 hours ago) and read 3303 times:

Indeed the recent SFO-NRT was pretty kickass for such an old, outdated plane! I love seeing stuff like that. This summer's DTW-FCO is another proud, if ludicrous, use of the DC-10.

User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3908 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 22 hours ago) and read 3297 times:

SEA-AMS switches on 6/1/05 and DTW-FCO switches to a 330 on 8/1/05. Deliveries start again this month. It's not a ludicrous use, it's just a stopgap measure. There aren't enough 330s right now to fly the summer schedule to Europe. There will be less and less DC10s as more and more 330s are delivered. These changovers don't happen overnight kids.


AZJ


User currently offlineTg 747-300 From Norway, joined Nov 1999, 1318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 19 hours ago) and read 3223 times:

Since we have so much NW dc10 knowledge around right now, I'll post a little off topic question.

Ypu think it will be posible to catch a Dc10 to and from europe in dec05/jan06? And hopfully without spending too many bucks?

Will be something like MYR-XXX-XXX-OSL and back.

I so much want a last dc10 flight

tg 747-300



intentionally left blank
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 19 hours ago) and read 3208 times:

Quoting Tg 747-300 (Reply 22):
Since we have so much NW dc10 knowledge around right now, I'll post a little off topic question.

Ypu think it will be posible to catch a Dc10 to and from europe in dec05/jan06? And hopfully without spending too many bucks?

Will be something like MYR-XXX-XXX-OSL and back.

I so much want a last dc10 flight

tg 747-300

DC10s should be still be operating some transatlantic flights this winter - look at the NW schedules out of MSP (none of the MSP originating flights use the A330s yet as far as I know) even if its a bit out of the way for your routing. Another possibility is the IAD-AMS flight which I think operates with a DC10.....or try the MEM-AMS flight (which NW took over a couple of seasons ago) which could be the most convient routing. MYR could be a problem but there are other nearby airports.....think about flying in the super low season, the first 2 weeks in Dec (before the holidays) and most of January when the fares are at there lowest.


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4318 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 19 hours ago) and read 3173 times:

Interesting thread. I flew NW flight 32, tail number 229, on Sunday night/Monday morning. I knew she was an old bird from a previous post I had in Tech Ops. Unfortunately, my experience on her was not too good. After a delay because of "unscheduled maintenance", wherein she was towed to the maintenance hangar, she was brought back to the gate under her own power. We finally took off four hours behind schedule. Unfortunately, 30 minutes into the flight at cruise altitude the captain announced the original problem had manifested itself again and that he was returning to DTW. We dumped fuel over Lake Erie (awsome sight to see the huge vapor trails form just aft of the fuel dump pipe) and landed uneventfully.

The captain alluded to the problem being related to "ducting". Not sure if it was related to the de-ice system but before we departed the gate originally, we sat on the tarmac for 20 minutes while the engines were run at above idle-speed.

Any of you DC10 nuts have the inside information on what the problem was or might have been?

Regardless of my experience, I'd fly those old NW 10s anytime. 229 was in immaculate condition and other than the "groovy" ceiling lights (c. 1970s), I don't think the flying public would have a clue as to how old the plane is.



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
25 Azjubilee : Mx issues happen to new planes too... they're big machines with tons of moving parts. There was a 330 to AMS delayed the other night due to mx as well
26 XFSUgimpLB41X : 1229 was still in DTW yesterday undergoing mx. I saw them taxi her down to near the approach end of 27L I suppose for engine runs the other day. We we
27 PSU.DTW.SCE : IAD-AMS is operated by KLM
28 RedFlyer : Good point and I'm well aware of that. I was just commenting that my personal experience on a NW 10 was not a good one from a service delivery standp
29 Jetjack74 : Fair enough. I just read it in a book.
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