WorldXplorer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2521 times:
With the new 16,000' runway well established, where is new international traffic that the runway was supposed to develop? Will Denver ever have more international carriers touching down?
Many people state the lack of O&D traffic to support non-stop flights to many destinations and that traffic is funneled through SFO, LAX, ORD, etc. But if that were the case why do the BA flights to LHR and LH flights to FRA do so well? Has there been any talk of other carriers looking at DEN? Anyway, I have ask enough questions.
I hope we see a NRT flight someday. If the point-to-point model proves to work with 787 perhaps we will see more Int'l service in DEN in the future.
AS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5821 posts, RR: 23 Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2436 times:
Doubtful you will see NH flying a 787 to DEN. They will not have first class, therefor losing a lot of premium traffic on the route. Another reason its doubtful you'll see the NH 787 in the US. If NH started DEN, it would probably be a 777. I don't see the demand for NH in DEN.
Seems to me DEN is just in a bad geographic position for a lot of Int'l destinations. IMHO
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
Jmy007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 591 posts, RR: 2 Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2418 times:
Quoting AS739X (Reply 4): Seems to me DEN is just in a bad geographic position for a lot of Int'l destinations. IMHO
How so? What about Dallas for Tokyo, for PHX for London? I do not buy that argument.
Some UA flights to Asia start in Denver, then on to SFO etc.
Korean flew in here for a while, but as to why the dropped service, I do not know.
I think O+D numbers do not support more than a couple of European desentations, and perhaps Tokyo.
[Edited 2005-05-04 17:58:53]
[Edited 2005-05-04 17:59:39]
Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
Bartond From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 788 posts, RR: 3 Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2395 times:
I think you hit it on the head with the geography of DEN. DEN does pick up a bunch of traffic from surrounding states and althroughout the west, but it's mostly just to connect to other US cities. International travelers either use DEN to connect to SFO, ORD, or IAD, or fly straight to one of those international gateways and on from there.
Someone mentioned that Air India was considering DEN service in the future but I wouldn't think there would be a market for it. SFO seems a better choice. AF was mentioned a while back but they chose DTW for their new US gateway.
CX750 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2390 times:
I think AS739X has a point: DEN is located between major UA hubs on both sides, esp. with respect to Japan flights. With AA, DFW does not have to compete with any of their own hubs and has a larger local market.
AS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5821 posts, RR: 23 Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2334 times:
Jmy007...
AA DFW-NRT....hes feed by many flights arriving from Mexico and Central/South America. United has almost "0" feed from Mexico and none from C./S. America into DEN. Matter of fact MEX-DEN you are routed via SFO or LAX.
Regarding BA PHX-LHR LH PHX-FRA...I am not saying that DEN is not going to get any service. But they have the same two PHX has. LH and BA, thats it! Just a niche.
I am just saying that for a city like Denver with United being thier main carrier, they have build international hubs from SFO and ORD, why start flights from DEN? There is a reason DEN - Asia flights go via SFO, Denver can't fill them up. I just don't see UA doing much, or any other airline. Not to mention with the vast co-sharing out there, city's like DEN and PHX will see less and less foreign carriers.
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
CX750 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2244 times:
Quoting AS739X (Reply 10): Regarding BA PHX-LHR LH PHX-FRA...I am not saying that DEN is not going to get any service. But they have the same two PHX has. LH and BA, thats it! Just a niche.
I believe LH has pulled out of PHX, and heard rumours that BA may reduce to 5x weekly from PHX.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31122 posts, RR: 74 Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2247 times:
Quoting AS739X (Reply 4): Doubtful you will see NH flying a 787 to DEN. They will not have first class, therefor losing a lot of premium traffic on the route.
F-class demand is not big out of Denver. It is only big out of a very few gateways. British Airways does not have F-class on their flights to Denver.
Quoting AS739X (Reply 10):
Regarding BA PHX-LHR LH PHX-FRA...I am not saying that DEN is not going to get any service. But they have the same two PHX has. LH and BA, thats it! Just a niche.
CitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2235 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2190 times:
Quoting PBIflyguy (Reply 12): I have to research, but didn't Western fly Denver-London at one point? anybody able to confirm or deny?
You are correct, Western started DEN to London service April 28, 1981. They used DC-10 "SpaceShips". The service lasted less than two years.
ConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2045 times:
Quoting Bartond (Reply 6): Someone mentioned that Air India was considering DEN service in the future but I wouldn't think there would be a market for it.
That someone was me, and Denver's market to India has little to do with it.
Quoting AS739X (Reply 10): But they have the same two PHX has. LH and BA
PHX no longer has LH.
Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 11): Why? BA does it, and its better service than UA international.
UA cannot fly DEN-LHR because DEN is not one of the 14 permanently-approved Heathrow gateways as stipulated by the Bermuda II bilateral.
BA can fly the route because it recently served LGW from DEN and demonstrated sufficient USA-LON through-traffic from that gateway such as to invoke a dormant clause allowing the destination to be served from whichever London airport BA chooses.
Should any scheduled carrier (I'm not sure if BY's intention counts) begin DEN-LON, both that carrier and BA would have to revert back to Gatwick.
UA doesn't serve LGW, and has no intention of initiating thus; therefore, no intention of intitiating DEN-LON.
AADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1839 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2028 times:
It is simply a matter of business demand. The size of the population of the metropolitan area is not as important as the number of businesses demanding international travel and most of those businesses tend to be around the edges of the country, not the middle.
The international travel demand at DEN is rising, but it is still tiny compared to LAX, SFO, SEA and even LAS. Places like DFW and IAH to not have huge numbers of international flights either. For the most part, international flights from the middle states (other than to Mexico and Canada) are driven by domestic airlines and if they decide to place their international flights elsewhere, only a handful of flag carriers are going there.
RNOcommctr From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 825 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1949 times:
Quoting PBIflyguy (Reply 12): I have to research, but didn't Western fly Denver-London at one point? anybody able to confirm or deny?
Yes, Western started Denver-London around 1980 in the heydays of post-deregulation; can't remember if it was to LHR or LGW. I remember, because the RNO executive director was invited to go on the inaugural flight. I was his rookie admininstrative assistant at the time and was kind of jealous. But I got over it when he let me represent him on the inaugural Golden West Metroliner flight from RNO-BOI.
ConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1960 times:
Quoting AADC10 (Reply 19): IAH to not have huge numbers of international flights either
Let's see... Houston is the nation's premier gateway to Mexico; as well as current flights to:
Japan
Taiwan*
England
France
Germany
Pakistan*
Brazil
Colombia
Ecuador
Peru
Bolivia
Belize
Nicaragua
Honduras
Panama
various Caribbean destinations
...not to mention planned service to India, Egypt, Argentina, and the United Arab Emirates.... I'd say you're wrong
AS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5821 posts, RR: 23 Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1895 times:
So LH no longer flys PHX-FRA. This back my point ven more. LH mostly servives at DEN due to Star Alliance and United.
MAH4546: I'm just repeating something a NH employee stated when NH announced the 787 order. That no first class was in it, therefor doubtful it was going to DEN. Just cause there is no demad for First to Europe, doesn't mean there isn't to Asia.
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
WorldXplorer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1808 times:
Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 18): Quoting Bartond (Reply 6):Someone mentioned that Air India was considering DEN service in the future but I wouldn't think there would be a market for it.
That someone was me, and Denver's market to India has little to do with it.
ConcordeBoy, could you expand on that? What is AI's reasoning and have any timeframes been discussed?
Ssides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 23 Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1793 times:
Quoting AADC10 (Reply 19): Places like DFW and IAH to not have huge numbers of international flights either.
They're not huge like JFK, LAX, ORD or SFO, but DFW and IAH have O&D numbers that are significantly higher than DEN.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
25 Mariner: United applied for DEN/CZM as well as Frontier? Gosh, if that is the case, then wherever F9 goes in Mexico, UA seems certain to follow. Except MZT. I
26 PHXinterrupted: It's Denver's relatively small population and demographics dictating international service in my opinion. The Denver metro has roughly 2.7 million pe
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