Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
New Int'l Service To DEN?  
User currently offlineWorldXplorer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 4130 times:

With the new 16,000' runway well established, where is new international traffic that the runway was supposed to develop? Will Denver ever have more international carriers touching down?

Many people state the lack of O&D traffic to support non-stop flights to many destinations and that traffic is funneled through SFO, LAX, ORD, etc. But if that were the case why do the BA flights to LHR and LH flights to FRA do so well? Has there been any talk of other carriers looking at DEN? Anyway, I have ask enough questions.

I hope we see a NRT flight someday. If the point-to-point model proves to work with 787 perhaps we will see more Int'l service in DEN in the future.

WorldXplorer

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHX Flyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 543 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 4100 times:

Not that spectacular, but "international" nonetheless: United just applied for an exemption to serve Cozumel from Denver beginning next fall.

User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4941 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 4090 times:

Isn't there always a debate about whether NH is going to start 787 service to DEN when they get them? Not to open a can of worms here...


Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineAA B777-200 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2001, 505 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 4071 times:

Maybe NW will start a DEN-AMS someday? Or LH/UA DEN-MUC?

User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 4045 times:

Doubtful you will see NH flying a 787 to DEN. They will not have first class, therefor losing a lot of premium traffic on the route. Another reason its doubtful you'll see the NH 787 in the US. If NH started DEN, it would probably be a 777. I don't see the demand for NH in DEN.

Seems to me DEN is just in a bad geographic position for a lot of Int'l destinations. IMHO

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineJmy007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 598 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 4027 times:

Quoting AS739X (Reply 4):
Seems to me DEN is just in a bad geographic position for a lot of Int'l destinations. IMHO

How so? What about Dallas for Tokyo, for PHX for London? I do not buy that argument.
Some UA flights to Asia start in Denver, then on to SFO etc.
Korean flew in here for a while, but as to why the dropped service, I do not know.
I think O+D numbers do not support more than a couple of European desentations, and perhaps Tokyo.

[Edited 2005-05-04 17:58:53]

[Edited 2005-05-04 17:59:39]


Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
User currently offlineBartond From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 4004 times:

I think you hit it on the head with the geography of DEN. DEN does pick up a bunch of traffic from surrounding states and althroughout the west, but it's mostly just to connect to other US cities. International travelers either use DEN to connect to SFO, ORD, or IAD, or fly straight to one of those international gateways and on from there.

Someone mentioned that Air India was considering DEN service in the future but I wouldn't think there would be a market for it. SFO seems a better choice. AF was mentioned a while back but they chose DTW for their new US gateway.


User currently offlineCX750 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 3999 times:

I think AS739X has a point: DEN is located between major UA hubs on both sides, esp. with respect to Japan flights. With AA, DFW does not have to compete with any of their own hubs and has a larger local market.

User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3767 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 3978 times:

I wish UA would start DEN-LHR-DEN!

Rob!


User currently offlineCX750 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 3970 times:

B742,

If UA starts DEN-London, it would have to go to LGW due to the US-UK bilateral agreement, and it would force BA to LGW as well (as I understand it).


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 3943 times:

Jmy007...

AA DFW-NRT....hes feed by many flights arriving from Mexico and Central/South America. United has almost "0" feed from Mexico and none from C./S. America into DEN. Matter of fact MEX-DEN you are routed via SFO or LAX.

Regarding BA PHX-LHR LH PHX-FRA...I am not saying that DEN is not going to get any service. But they have the same two PHX has. LH and BA, thats it! Just a niche.

I am just saying that for a city like Denver with United being thier main carrier, they have build international hubs from SFO and ORD, why start flights from DEN? There is a reason DEN - Asia flights go via SFO, Denver can't fill them up. I just don't see UA doing much, or any other airline. Not to mention with the vast co-sharing out there, city's like DEN and PHX will see less and less foreign carriers.

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineJmy007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 598 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 3928 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 8):

Why? BA does it, and its better service than UA international.



Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
User currently offlinePBIflyguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 248 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3853 times:

I have to research, but didn't Western fly Denver-London at one point? anybody able to confirm or deny?

THanks


User currently offlineCX750 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3853 times:

Quoting AS739X (Reply 10):
Regarding BA PHX-LHR LH PHX-FRA...I am not saying that DEN is not going to get any service. But they have the same two PHX has. LH and BA, thats it! Just a niche.

I believe LH has pulled out of PHX, and heard rumours that BA may reduce to 5x weekly from PHX.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32618 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3856 times:

Quoting AS739X (Reply 4):
Doubtful you will see NH flying a 787 to DEN. They will not have first class, therefor losing a lot of premium traffic on the route.

F-class demand is not big out of Denver. It is only big out of a very few gateways. British Airways does not have F-class on their flights to Denver.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 10):

Regarding BA PHX-LHR LH PHX-FRA...I am not saying that DEN is not going to get any service. But they have the same two PHX has. LH and BA, thats it! Just a niche.

Lufthansa no longer flies to Phoenix.



a.
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2425 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3799 times:

Quoting PBIflyguy (Reply 12):
I have to research, but didn't Western fly Denver-London at one point? anybody able to confirm or deny?

You are correct, Western started DEN to London service April 28, 1981. They used DC-10 "SpaceShips". The service lasted less than two years.

http://www.airchive.com/SITE%20PAGES/TIMETABLES-WESTERN.html
http://www.airchive.com/Timetables%2...Western%20Compressed/WAmap8104.jpg shows the timetable with London service.

[Edited 2005-05-04 19:06:50]


Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3767 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3782 times:

Jmy007, I wish UA could fly this route, I'm not on about the ethics of the route I just wish UA would fly the route!

Rob!


User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1606 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3734 times:

CO used to Fly SYD-HNL-DEN-LGW

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3654 times:

Quoting Bartond (Reply 6):
Someone mentioned that Air India was considering DEN service in the future but I wouldn't think there would be a market for it.

That someone was me, and Denver's market to India has little to do with it.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 10):
But they have the same two PHX has. LH and BA

PHX no longer has LH.

Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 11):
Why? BA does it, and its better service than UA international.

UA cannot fly DEN-LHR because DEN is not one of the 14 permanently-approved Heathrow gateways as stipulated by the Bermuda II bilateral.

BA can fly the route because it recently served LGW from DEN and demonstrated sufficient USA-LON through-traffic from that gateway such as to invoke a dormant clause allowing the destination to be served from whichever London airport BA chooses.

Should any scheduled carrier (I'm not sure if BY's intention counts) begin DEN-LON, both that carrier and BA would have to revert back to Gatwick.

UA doesn't serve LGW, and has no intention of initiating thus; therefore, no intention of intitiating DEN-LON.


User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3637 times:

It is simply a matter of business demand. The size of the population of the metropolitan area is not as important as the number of businesses demanding international travel and most of those businesses tend to be around the edges of the country, not the middle.

The international travel demand at DEN is rising, but it is still tiny compared to LAX, SFO, SEA and even LAS. Places like DFW and IAH to not have huge numbers of international flights either. For the most part, international flights from the middle states (other than to Mexico and Canada) are driven by domestic airlines and if they decide to place their international flights elsewhere, only a handful of flag carriers are going there.


User currently offlineRNOcommctr From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 827 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3558 times:

Quoting PBIflyguy (Reply 12):
I have to research, but didn't Western fly Denver-London at one point? anybody able to confirm or deny?

Yes, Western started Denver-London around 1980 in the heydays of post-deregulation; can't remember if it was to LHR or LGW. I remember, because the RNO executive director was invited to go on the inaugural flight. I was his rookie admininstrative assistant at the time and was kind of jealous. But I got over it when he let me represent him on the inaugural Golden West Metroliner flight from RNO-BOI.
 Angry  Angry  Angry



I'm sorry, ma'am, I don't work for the airline.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3569 times:

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 19):
IAH to not have huge numbers of international flights either

Let's see... Houston is the nation's premier gateway to Mexico; as well as current flights to:
Japan
Taiwan*
England
France
Germany
Pakistan*
Brazil
Colombia
Ecuador
Peru
Bolivia
Belize
Nicaragua
Honduras
Panama
various Caribbean destinations

...not to mention planned service to India, Egypt, Argentina, and the United Arab Emirates.... I'd say you're wrong  Wink


*1stop, same-plane


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3504 times:

So LH no longer flys PHX-FRA. This back my point ven more. LH mostly servives at DEN due to Star Alliance and United.

MAH4546: I'm just repeating something a NH employee stated when NH announced the 787 order. That no first class was in it, therefor doubtful it was going to DEN. Just cause there is no demad for First to Europe, doesn't mean there isn't to Asia.

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineWorldXplorer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3417 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 18):
Quoting Bartond (Reply 6):Someone mentioned that Air India was considering DEN service in the future but I wouldn't think there would be a market for it.
That someone was me, and Denver's market to India has little to do with it.

ConcordeBoy, could you expand on that? What is AI's reasoning and have any timeframes been discussed?


User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3402 times:

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 19):
Places like DFW and IAH to not have huge numbers of international flights either.

They're not huge like JFK, LAX, ORD or SFO, but DFW and IAH have O&D numbers that are significantly higher than DEN.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
25 Post contains images Mariner : United applied for DEN/CZM as well as Frontier? Gosh, if that is the case, then wherever F9 goes in Mexico, UA seems certain to follow. Except MZT. I
26 PHXinterrupted : It's Denver's relatively small population and demographics dictating international service in my opinion. The Denver metro has roughly 2.7 million pe
27 Thomasphoto60 : You forgot, Holland. Thomas
28 COSPN : And Costa Rica LIR and SJO
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
SEA To Offer Incentives For New Int'l Service posted Mon Jan 2 2006 08:47:30 by RwSEA
New DL Service To Mumbai Starts Today posted Wed Nov 1 2006 06:29:28 by B777ER
New Airline Service To San Diego posted Mon Jul 10 2006 20:14:52 by B737100
Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN. posted Mon Jun 5 2006 17:17:57 by Atrude777
New Lufthansa Service To BAH & AUH posted Sat Mar 11 2006 08:41:57 by Fly2CHC
New AirTran Service To White Plains... posted Mon Jan 23 2006 18:44:39 by LawnDart
New Delta Service To LGB(new) And MSY(old) posted Tue Jan 3 2006 22:42:17 by OttoPylit
New Delta Service To Managua And Roatan posted Sat Sep 3 2005 18:11:58 by MAH4546
New SWF Service To Be Unveiled 8/23 posted Mon Aug 22 2005 21:02:55 by PVDflier
New Virgin Service To HKG posted Thu May 12 2005 08:20:25 by Crewrest