Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Iberia Will Increase GIG-MAD Service  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3549 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Iberia announced today in Brazil that service from MAD to GIG will be increased until the end of year from 4/5 flights per week to Daily.

As per Iberia's Director in Brazil, GIG presents a strong demand that could
operate the Daily Flight even today. The problem nowadays it's the agreement between Brazil and Spain but IB expect to solve this matter until
the end of year.

Regards,

Lipe


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3537 times:

What aircraft will they use for this route?

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3518 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 1):
What aircraft will they use for this route?

Iberia is using A340-300 or 600 in MAD-GIG. And always with high occupancy. .



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8974 posts, RR: 39
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3514 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 2):
Iberia is using A340-300 or 600 in MAD-GIG. And always with high occupancy. .

The -600 is used during Carnival only I believe.

PPVRA



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3502 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 3):
The -600 is used during Carnival only I believe.

PPVRA,

I believe they will come back as per Iberia's website some flights during July and august will be made with 346. (see for example Aug, 13 MAD-GIG) .

Regards,

Lipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3387 times:

IB currently flies:

- MAD-GRU A343 daily (GRU-ASU is operated by TAM);
- MAD-GIG 4/5 x week with the A343 (Dec-Mar and Jun-Jul IB uses A346).

AF, TP and IB are making good profits in their nonstop operations to GIG. GIG is currently more profitable for TP and AF than their daily operations in GRU. TP reported that GIG was the main driver for its growth in the Brazilian market in the First Quarter/05.

With the introduction of IB's daily flights MAD-GIG I also expect IB perform better on the GIG market as compared to GRU.

Rgs,


User currently offlineSQ773 From Spain, joined Apr 2005, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3368 times:

Well, that is good news , and also curious. Whether there is much demand for this route ( hopefully ) or IB wants Air Madrid out of the market, although the target passanger might be different.

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3315 times:

Quoting SQ773 (Reply 6):
Whether there is much demand for this route ( hopefully ) or IB wants Air Madrid out of the market, although the target passanger might be different.

I'm sure there is demand for this route: just look at the amount of well paid Brazilian football player in Spain (just kidding). Spain is a major foreign investor in Brazil (top 5) and there are lots of Spanish business and regional HQ of Spanish companies in Rio de Janeiro.

The fact that TP showed a strong performance in the GIG market demonstrates that IB could also have good results with its daily flights. GIG is much more comfortable than GRU, quicker immigration and customs, and more onward domestic connections in Brazil, especially Northeast Brazil destinations.

Quoting SQ773 (Reply 6):
or IB wants Air Madrid out of the market, although the target passanger might be different.

Target passenger is different, you cannot compare. Btw, Air Europa is also doing well with its 3 x week MAD-SSA nonstop B763.

Rgs,


User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3275 times:

Quoting SQ773 (Reply 6):
Whether there is much demand for this route ( hopefully ) or IB wants Air Madrid out of the market

Air Madrid is already out of the market. GIG is no longer listed among the company's destinations.




SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3210 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 7):
I'm sure there is demand for this route: just look at the amount of well paid Brazilian football player in Spain (just kidding). Spain is a major foreign investor in Brazil (top 5) and there are lots of Spanish business and regional HQ of Spanish companies in Rio de Janeiro.

The fact that TP showed a strong performance in the GIG market demonstrates that IB could also have good results with its daily flights. GIG is much more comfortable than GRU, quicker immigration and customs, and more onward domestic connections in Brazil, especially Northeast Brazil destinations.

Perfect Hardiwv. GIG is really getting "life" as Hub. I heard from IB that GIG market even today needs a daily flight and that for most flights on July/September they are facing very high occupancy rates (even business). Rio's market is expect to exceed GRU (today's GIG with 4/5 flights is more profitable than GRU) in both profit and pax after the daily flight as well as they think that the route will demand the A340-600 despite they will keep the A340-300 for GRU.
Varig is also increasing GIG flights as they do not confirm the operation of the 3x week B767-300 after July 31. They start to use B777-200 6 times GIG-GRU-LIS and 1 weekly GIG-LIS (non stop on Saturdays). TP and RG operations to GIG in July are fully in several days (even with 2 direct flights) and RG and TP shows large availability for GRU in the same period.
Daylight RG's GIG-MIA during July is another signal. Hope they can find additional aircrafts to increase GIG-FRA service as they said on Monday that one of Varig's priorities is to increase non stop service from GIG.
BRA will start regular operations in the middle June and several flights nowadays in GRU will be placed in CGH-SDU and GIG, increasing connections.

Regards,

Lipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3180 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 7):
The fact that TP showed a strong performance in the GIG market demonstrates that IB could also have good results with its daily flights.

No, Hardi, it doesn't. It's impossible to put both markets on the same comparative level. Brazil's condition of portuguese ex-colony makes it impossible to pretend that both routes' demographics/traffic are the same.



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
TP and RG operations to GIG in July are fully in several days (even with 2 direct flights) and RG and TP shows large availability for GRU in the same period.

I believe it's not adequate to judge profitabilty/unprofitabily based on information published by international reservation systems, in case you are doing so. Even though it's possible to draw a general idea of load factors out of it, it is known that not always the data shown in these terms is not fully accurate.

It say so because it's not the first time.



SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3182 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 10):
I believe it's not adequate to judge profitability/unprofitable based on information published by international reservation systems, in case you are doing so. Even though it's possible to draw a general idea of load factors out of it, it is known that not always the data shown in these terms is not fully accurate.

Agree with you SOUTHAMERICA. Info was given by the VP in an event in Sao Paulo few days ago (RG) and an internal source of TP. Reservation Systems shows (as the name says) reserves and ticket effective issued. At the system probably you will get planes full in many dates but the info given included only confirmed and effective.

Regards,

Lipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3174 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
At the system probably you will get planes full in many dates but the info given included only confirmed and effective.

Addionally, not always all seats available in the airplane are opened for sale.


SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3165 times:

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 10):
No, Hardi, it doesn't. It's impossible to put both markets on the same comparative level. Brazil's condition of portuguese ex-colony makes it impossible to pretend that both routes' demographics/traffic are the same.

SOUTHAMERICA: yes, it is possible, because I also mentioned AF as an example.

It is well known and disseminated that AF is doing better in GIG as compared to GRU (and Brazil was not a French ex-colony!). TP, for the first time in years, performed better in GIG as compared to GRU (1Q results. I'm sure that IB's decision to increase flights to GIG to daily is also based on meaningful statistics. The fact that IB uses the A346 to GRU and not to GIG is another indicator.

Rgs,


Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3055 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 13):
The fact that IB uses the A346 to GRU and not to GIG is another indicator.

Hardiwv,

Allows me a little correction. IB uses the A346 to GIG and not to GRU. All the rest 100% perfect as for ALL European carriers flying non stop to GIG and GRU, GIG is much better market than GRU.

Regards,

Lipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17823 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3050 times:

Wasn't Air Madrid trying to get permission for more weekly roundtrips on this route before it left the market?


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3038 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
Wasn't Air Madrid trying to get permission for more weekly roundtrips on this route before it left the market?

Yes. But as a charter flight, Brazilian DAC only authorized Air Madrid to sell
about 60 tickets GIG-MAD (25% of one A330-200). Then, Air Madrid cancel
the flight to GIG.

Regards
Lipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3006 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 13):
Yes, it is possible, because I also mentioned AF as an example.

It's still not possible to compare... see below...

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 13):
It is well known and disseminated that AF is doing better in GIG as compared to GRU (and Brazil was not a French ex-colony!).

That proves practically nothing. It has been also pretty disseminated and well-known that among European airlines, AF is one of the carriers [if not the carrier] with the most flexible fleet of all, making possible an efficient yield-extraction based on each market's weaknesses/strengths. Plus they offer much superior connection opportunities in their CDG hub than IB in MAD, let alone TP in LIS. No wonder they are doing so fine in GIG.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):
IB uses the A346 to GIG and not to GRU.

The A346 are deployed to A343 destinations when demand is worth it. GRU has seen the A346 as much as GIG, in hot-travelling periods.




SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2992 times:

SOUTHAMERICA:

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 17):
that among European airlines, AF is one of the carriers [if not the carrier] with the most flexible fleet of all, making possible an efficient yield-extraction based on each market's weaknesses/strengths

So why doesnt AF explore more the weakness and strengths of GRU? Sorry, your words were all empty and did not explain anything.

For me things are crystal clear: AF performs better in GIG rather than in GRU because GIG generates more profit, generates more traffic in a balanced way with business and economy class full. GRU can manage to full AF's business class, but with poor loads in economy.

It is a fact that airlines are doing better in GIG as compared to other years: AF and TP operations in GIG outperformed their GRU operations (the same for RG GIG-FRA as compared to GRU-FRA).

As I stated, IB decision to increase GIG to daily is yet another demonstration that GIG has increasingly become more attractive market.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bernardo Andrade



Rgs,


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2977 times:

Now is official, IB goes daily nonstop to GIG as of 01 November/05:

IB6803 MAD-GIG Dep. 01h45 Arrive 08h05
IB6802 GIG-MAD Dep. 16h00 Arrive 05h45


Both flights are red-eye which will make IB very competitive in the GIG-Europe market (TP operates one leg daylight; AF operates both legs red-eye).

Rgs,


User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

Will these flights get a BA code? Strange that there are no direct flights from LON-GIG. 1 stop in GRU is not direct.

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2952 times:

Quoting Richardw (Reply 20):
Will these flights get a BA code?

I'm not sure, but I guess no. BA still flies daily to GRU and 3 x week LHR-GRU-GIG, all with the B747. RG flies daily LHR-GRU-GIG with the B777.

Quoting Richardw (Reply 20):
Strange that there are no direct flights from LON-GIG. 1 stop in GRU is not direct.

RG and BA flights to GIG are direct (but not nonstop) - there is no change of aircraft in GRU, therefore, the flight is direct. As such, there are 10 x week flight LHR-GIG direct.

Virgin announced last year its itention to start flight LON-GIG nonstop. GIG was included in VS "wish list" released last year, VS is expected to launch flights to GIG in 2006.

Rgs,


User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2944 times:

A non stopping direct flight on VS LHR-GIG hopefully in time for the next carnival sounds very good to me.

Since all BA flights LON-MAD have IB codes, this gives more choice for Londoners.


User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2861 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 18):
So why doesnt AF explore more the weakness and strengths of GRU? Sorry, your words were all empty and did not explain anything.

Probably because there are other destinations higher in their priority-list. In order to maximize GRU's potential as a powerful business-traffic generator, the logical step would be to upgrade Sao Paulo to their top-deluxe 773 product. Those are currently being used in other flagship routes.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 18):
For me things are crystal clear: AF performs better in GIG rather than in GRU because GIG generates more profit, generates more traffic in a balanced way with business and economy class full. GRU can manage to full AF's business class, but with poor loads in economy.

Could be, but nothing is so certain as to be called "cristal clear", unless the company itself confirms it. You absolutely forgot about AF's L'Espace Premier, in which GRU should also be a strong player.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 18):
As I stated, IB decision to increase GIG to daily is yet another demonstration that GIG has increasingly become more attractive market.

Possibly, but the arguments/comparisons you used for stating the above are not convincing.

AF, TP and IB offer different products, from different markets, from different hubs under different traffic conditions. I don't see how the fact that one of them is doing fine in Rio can asure that the others will do so too.




SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2841 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 23):
Probably because there are other destinations higher in their priority-list. In order to maximize GRU's potential as a powerful business-traffic generator, the logical step would be to upgrade Sao Paulo to their top-deluxe 773 product. Those are currently being used in other flagship routes.

Only for info Air France HQ in Brazil is located in Rio. Rio's 747-400 service launch at Brazil the new classes as well as the world's first new Vip space (before GRU and even CDG).
Air France all the times announce GIG as the main Brazilian market (even business) as well as they dont face TAM and Varig at GIG. Last year with the same Aircraft (A340 vs 777 until nov/01 when AF introduces the 744) GIG represents 53% of total pax and the GRU 777 was bigger than the A340!)
Note: 391 seats B744 against 270 (more 44%). How many C class at GIG ? 71 ! to GRU less than 60. Sorry but there is no way to compare AF operations in Brazil and GIG is in fact big and better for AF. Rio is not only touristic destination for AF pax: L'oreal, France Telecom, Meridien, Intelig, Peugeot-Citroen, Biolab Merieux, Lafarge, EDF, Total Petroleo, Essilor, Michelin, Sanofi Synthelabo, Thales, Ingerop, Bureau Veritas, Brasflex, Vallourec, Servier, Turbomeca, as well as connection to SJC (Embraer HQ where EADS has a minor share participation). All this French corps have Brazilian HQ or main operations in Rio. French investments in Brazil are 42% located in Rio.
Plane full is signal of a strong market (and AF said that 744 will stay in CDG-GIG route due to the fact of high occupancy all the year, load factor exceeds 85% while GRU hits 83%).
AF can introduce the 773 at GRU but will not help to exceed GIG profits. Prices are the same but GRU is 230 miles far (needs more fuel). 777 saves
fuel , okay... but the revenue of a 744 is at least 40% higher.

AF announces 744 at time of domestic traffic has been transferred from SDU to GIG and it was one of the reasons for the improvement. They believe (right) that GIG will receive VIX, PLU (now CNF) and even part of BSB traffic.
Last time i spoke with AF's senior management they wont expect that 744 exceed their expectations. Now GIG is becoming largest in domestic traffic than GRU (which means more connections available) and Rio de Janeiro is the top destination for Congress and Seminars in Latin America (ranked 15 in the world) which brings to Rio more than 45,000 additional pax.

GRU is bigger than GIG and especially for South America and United States it have much more service (GIG is poor in terms of South America connections). But in terms of Europe, there is not a big difference. Why ? Immigration. Rio is the largest Portuguese, spanish and French communities in Brazil. Italians and Japanese prefer São Paulo, Germans the south. Latin America countries are establishing their communities in Sao Paulo as this is a new direction (due to the fact that Sao Paulo is the biggest economy today, same situation in the past faced by Rio de Janeiro which brings more Europeans in 1940/1960).

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 23):
AF, TP and IB offer different products, from different markets, from different hubs under different traffic conditions. I don't see how the fact that one of them is doing fine in Rio can asure that the others will do so too.

Only AF in my oppion shows a different product. AF sells GIG-CDG as "The Connection Flight to Europe". Others (IB and TP) target is only O&D Rio de Janeiro. But the three saw the real and strong opportunity GIG represents and every action they take (change A340 for 744, increase flights, announce code-share with RG for additional flights) is a strong confirmation that GIG is really high profitable. TAP for example can use its A340 for SSA-LIS if they realize that GIG is not a good market, changing it for the A310. AF in the same way will try to use not the biggest plane they have but a small one don't you think ? Why i increase flights to one city 400km far from my established base ? Why don't start a code-share GIG-GRU and transfer my little 744 to GRU and establish a second flight GRU-CDG (same as JJ) ?
The fact is that Rio de Janeiro is a big city and with several troubles (violence) accounts for more than 20% of Brazilian savings (14% GDP) and it's int'l airport is the biggest (in terms of capacity / area) and comfortable ( the only with 2 runways which can be simultaneously operated). Who never lost at least 10 minutes to take off ? Or 10 minutes only to be removed from the gate ? Or worst, two hours at Customs / Immigration ?
Planes goes where Pax are... but pax goes where they have the top comfort!

Regards,

Lipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 Hardiwv : Lipe: I see this is your 31st post and I have not welcome you yet! Welcome to A.net, you have been a great Brazilian addition to this forum. I very mu
26 LipeGIG : Thanks Hardi, i can say now that i'm learning too much here. I realize that each one here has the capacity or the knowledge of something that can imp
27 SOUTHAMERICA : Very interesting discussion I must say... Thanks for posting your comments guys [Felipe and Hardi]... It's always interesting to see the same panorama
28 LipeGIG : Same opinion SOUTHAMERICA. Thanks for the improvement on this discussion. I saw the same info, GIG actually does not offer the L'espace Première (be
29 SOUTHAMERICA : I'm absolutely positive that the 777s [both -200s and -300s] are configured with First and Business. I believe the 777-200ERs used to GRU have 8 L'Es
30 Post contains images Hardiwv : Same here. I also very much respect your opinion...if there were no different views this forum would be so boring...so tks for your (diverging) contr
31 Hardiwv : Actually it has 12 seats; here if the configuration of AF's B772ER to GRU: First Class: 12 Business Class: 56 Economy: 202 Rgs,
32 SOUTHAMERICA : Yes, it's a bit strange at first, but when you see it closely you can easily draw the logic out of it. As I said earlier, it is due to such diversity
33 LipeGIG : I spoke with AF today: 41 C class are oferred at GIG-CDG. During summer june/august they intend to increase to 58. That's the press release in portug
34 Hardiwv : This is what I said. AF markets some of the biz seats as economy (all the upper deck which has biz seats are sold as economy), this is common practic
35 LipeGIG : Perfect. As I told, due to immigration, European routes are interesting at GIG. North American carriers performs better in GRU (as well as Latin Amer
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
TAAG Will Increase GIG Service To Twice Weekly posted Wed Jun 8 2005 18:55:27 by LipeGIG
Iberia To Increase MIA-MAD posted Mon Dec 19 2005 04:18:35 by MAH4546
UX Upgrades GIG-MAD Before It Begins! posted Fri Sep 29 2006 03:12:23 by LipeGIG
Will LH Resume PHX Service? posted Mon Aug 14 2006 03:19:14 by USAF757300
Bair: No Question 787 Production Will Increase posted Tue Jul 18 2006 12:44:35 by Leelaw
AA To Increase GIG-MIA To 12x Weekly posted Thu Jun 29 2006 19:11:51 by LipeGIG
US To Increase PHX-BOS Service posted Tue Jun 20 2006 15:01:55 by COERJ145
Brazilian BRA To Fly GRU-GIG-MAD & GIG-GRU-LIS posted Thu Jun 8 2006 06:00:07 by LipeGIG
Iberia B747-400 Still In Service? posted Sun Feb 19 2006 02:23:15 by Falcon flyer
TAM Will Fly GIG-EZE Non Stop posted Wed Jan 25 2006 21:42:36 by LipeGIG