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LOT Leaning Towards 787  
User currently offlineIwok From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8285 times:

Just found this small article. Not much info in it, but it states that LOT is leaning towards the 787 vs. 330. I though that the 350 was being pitched to LOT.

Does this mean that the 350 is about to be un-plugged, or is the article just plain wrong?

iwok


Polish airline seen picking Boeing jets-paper
Thu May 5, 2005 02:05 AM ET
WARSAW, May 5 (Reuters) - Poland's national airline LOT will most probably pick Boeing (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) over rival Airbus (EAD.PA: Quote, Profile, Research) in a $500 million tender to lease long-haul jets, heavyweight Polish daily Rzeczpospolita reported on Thursday.
LOT's [LOT.UL] supervisory board is expected to announce the winner of its tender to lease about 6 long-haul passenger jets next Friday.

"LOT will most probably pick American Boeings, not Airbus," Rzeczpospolita quoted an unnamed source as saying.

The paper wrote that Boeing is offering its B 787 Dreamliner and Airbus is offering its A330-200 model.

LOT was not immediately available for comment


97 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8228 times:

I think this officially marks the death of the A350 or close to it if EK goes boeing.

User currently offlineDalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8214 times:

A bit of a surprise considering the amount of political pressure applied to LOT/Polish Gov't by the various European Govts.
A big win for the 787 if this report is true.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8199 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Airbus should just postpone the A350 programme and build a real A350 from stratch and not a cheap upgrade.

User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8144 times:

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 2):
A bit of a surprise considering the amount of political pressure applied to LOT/Polish Gov't by the various European Govts.

It could also mean that the political pressure being applied from Washington was even stronger than that coming from within the EU...

Has LOT ever even operated Airbus aircraft? If they're a loyal Boeing customer, which their fleet of B737s and B767s suggests, and if they're happy with what they got so far, they should just stay with it ("it" being the manufacturer - not the planes they currently have).

Ordering planes for reasons of political appeasement is, plain and simply, ordering them for the wrong reason - regardless of which side you're trying to appease.

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8131 times:

Quoting Leskova (Reply 4):
It could also mean that the political pressure being applied from Washington was even stronger than that coming from within the EU...

Very likely in this case.. Poland's blind alliance with GWB in teh Iraq war question was the beginning 'of a strategic partnership' with the latter... what would have happened if Poland received all these grattitudes of the US and ordered Airbus...  Yeah sure


User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5743 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 8045 times:

Seems like fair amount of behind-the-scene arm twisting is bringing its fruits.

User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7972 times:

DLKAPA

I also think if EK goes Boeing and not Airbus , this is the end of the A350 in its actual form.
We are approaching the answer (Paris Air Show).


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26815 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7930 times:

I am not exactly a fan of my (US) government, but the 787 really is a far superior aircraft to the A350 and LOT are actually making the prudent choice here. Besides that, LOT's traffic really doesn't warrant a larger plane than the 788. If they do need to grow, a 789 would work too.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3188 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7878 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
I am not exactly a fan of my (US) government, but the 787 really is a far superior aircraft to the A350 and LOT are actually making the prudent choice here.

I often like your post because they often seem very well-funded and non-biased. However I'm surprised how you can always tell that the 787 is far superior above the A350, as there aren't any details provided yet about the plane. They only told the name, that is's using 37% composites and the same engines as the 787 however with use of bleed air. I don't understand - unless you are working both at airbus as at boeing at the R&D-department - how you can make this bold statements, with so few information.


User currently offlineOlympicbis From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 7840 times:

Not the first time Poland would buy US-made over European. They did it for their military too. So why did they want to enter EU for ? This is just the political aspect I am pointing out, not the Airbus vs Boeing issue.

User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5947 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 7837 times:

No one would really argue that the A350 is superior to the 787. The 787 offers MORE composites, bleedless engines, lower maintenance costs than current offerings, etc etc etc, the list goes on an on.

Even Airbus isn't claiming superior economics as a reason to buy the A350- they're pitching its size to EK, and that's about it.

Further, your point becomes ridiculously mute if you actually READ the article- Airbus pitched the 332 to LOT, not the 350. So why have you even brought it up?

Funny- when the Europeans are the only ones awake to reply, it shows. Just as when the Americans are the only ones, it shows.

Did anyone ever consider that this has nothing to do with George Bush? Continental ordered the 787. They must have been strong armed.
With only ten orders for the A350, it leads one to conclude that it is not the aircraft that the market desires at this time.
No one likes America right now anyway- who cares if we strong arm them. What are we going to do, threaten to not like them back? Oooh, I am sure Poland is scared of the Republican with the big ears.

I am totally with Frank (that's a first!). LOT should buy WHATEVER PLANE SUITS THEIR NEEDS! If it's the A332, then shame on Boeing for not producing a plane that meets that need. If it's the 787, then shame on Airbus for not meeting the need.
End of story.


User currently offlineQFA001 From Australia, joined May 2000, 673 posts, RR: 53
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 7817 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 11):
Even Airbus isn't claiming superior economics as a reason to buy the A350- they're pitching its size to EK, and that's about it.

Airbus is indeed telling airlines that the A350 will have superior economics. For starters, they're saying that the B787-8 is too small for its mission. Secondly, they're saying that the A350-800 will burn 2% less fuel per seat than the B787-8. Thirdly, they are playing the commonality card. I don't necessarily agree with all these items, but that is what Airbus is doing.

FWIW, Airbus has pitched the airplane to 40+ airlines.

Quote:
Further, your point becomes ridiculously mute if you actually READ the article- Airbus pitched the 332 to LOT, not the 350. So why have you even brought it up?

It's a mistake in the article. LO was/is considering A350 v B787.


User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3188 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 7806 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 11):
With only ten orders for the A350, it leads one to conclude that it is not the aircraft that the market desires at this time.

Too premature! First of all, the A350 was available to offer a couple of months later than the 787. The plane will also be around 2 years later on the market than the 787, so customers have more time to order it. By the way, the 787 didn't sell too in the beginning, except for it's launch customer, ANA. The First Choice and Blue Panorama orders are comparable to the UX commitments.

Secondly, Airbus already offers the 332, which is a true competitor for the 788 at this very moment. And when you want your delivery somewhat earlier than the 787 slots are available, the 322 is still a very good offer. Fuel-consumption will be slightly higher (according to Boeing), but it might be offered cheaper to compensate for that. (normal business strategy). And the 332 did sell quite good in 2005: 2 for NW, 20 for Air China, 2 for GECAS and 1 for Qatar: 25 airplanes, not too bad when there is a new model coming soon.

Third point: Airbus is well-known for big announcements at the Paris Air Show. It is a very real possiblity that there are quite some orders signed, but kept quite for the Airshow. So just wait for what happens there.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 3):
Airbus should just postpone the A350 programme and build a real A350 from stratch and not a cheap upgrade.

Check out http://www.airbus.com/careers/index.asp . Maybe they are looking for a new CEO.


User currently offlineJet-lagged From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 877 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 7750 times:

Of course both Washington and Europe apply political pressure to Poland to choose 'their' side. That is part of their job as sovereign representatives.

To avoid another Air India, Airbus should take pre-emptive action. Perhaps sue Rzeczpospolita for reporting such nonsense. Maybe release a statement tomorrow on what is flawed with LOT's selection process. Or request the LOT management team be replaced and the tender re-bid. Etc. Etc.


User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2821 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7713 times:

I think EK is probably a cert for A350 because it's bigger. They might order enough to make it worthwhile, but I don't think you can launch with the bulk of your orders coming from one customer alone.

User currently offlineDeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7662 times:

I know, who will order the A350 after EK gets it? If no-one orders it besides EK, the Airbus may drop it and EK will have to get the 789 then.


Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2821 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7648 times:

If the A350 does flop, will Airbus go straight into A32XNG? The timing might not be right since bothe A320X and 737NG are new and going strong. By the time the 787 is done, it would be a better time to start on narrowbody replacements.

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7613 times:

Quoting Olympicbis (Reply 10):
Not the first time Poland would buy US-made over European. They did it for their military too. So why did they want to enter EU for ?

There are very strong political, economic, and ethnic ties between Poland and the U.S. Chicago supposedly has the largest "Polish" population of any city other than Warsaw.


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7573 times:

Quoting Leskova (Reply 4):
It could also mean that the political pressure being applied from Washington was even stronger than that coming from within the EU

If true it simply means that we applied the same tactics that the EU does. But did it ever cross you mind that the 787 is seen as a superior choice, like what happened with Air Canada, Korean, the Chinese airlines and Northwest??

Just another bloody nose for Airbus A-350 program, if true.

Ordering any aircraft from anyone for political reasons-American, EU or otherwise-is just plane wrong.

[Edited 2005-05-05 14:09:56]


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7544 times:

Quoting Joost (Reply 9):
often like your post because they often seem very well-funded and non-biased. However I'm surprised how you can always tell that the 787 is far superior above the A350, as there aren't any details provided yet about the plane. They only told the name, that is's using 37% composites and the same engines as the 787 however with use of bleed air. I don't understand - unless you are working both at airbus as at boeing at the R&D-department - how you can make this bold statements, with so few information

The market has so far indicated that the 787 is he superior product offering. Airbus can't go around offering an aircraft it has no information about to the airlines, and they must therfore have a very good idea of what it will do, with quite a few details provided to each airline....efficiencies it will offer, etc. Just because you or I don't have those details does not mean that Airbus has not revealed some or most of them to the potential customers out there.

And the customers are rejecting it in favor of the 787.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3188 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7508 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 19):
But did it ever cross you mind that the 787 is seen as a superior choice,

Do you mean better suitable for their specific operations, earlier on the market, and a good business deal from Boeing?

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 19):
Ordering any aircraft from anyone for political reasons-American, EU or otherwise-is just plane wrong.

Get real. There are aircraft orders that have a political base. Look et LY orders, and the Saudi deals in favor of Boeing, or the Thai situation and possibly also the CSA order for Airbus. This applies - of course - mostly by state-owned airlines.

For privat companies, decisions are almost always business decisions. But here, the negotions are quite different from your negotions at the Toyota dealer for a new Corolla.

The economics of all on-market airlines are very well known for every specific situation. In mathematical models and simulations based on current airline experiences, manufactures and airlines can determine the TCO. When it shows that one type of a/c is more expensive in TCO than the competing one, the selling company will lower it's price untill the customer is happy, and as long as they are still making profit on it.

Keep in mind, airframe unit costs are as flexible as the wings of a 787, as a huge part is R&D costs and production line. "Selling below unit costs" as sometimes mentioned on the forum, is by this a very weak statement. It just depends on if you spread your R&D-costs over 50 or 100 or 500 airframes. I can't imagine an airline manufacterer selling the airframe below the raw material and direct labout costs.

There are many conditions that apply, and in the end there will be a best deal. The way how deals are made like the AC deal (both the first one when they bought Airbus as the second one when they ordered Boeing), the SQ deal, etc., they are just very normal in a competitive environement. En they are good - it's just normal business. They way how state-biased deals are made however, disturb business.


User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1912 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7416 times:

Everyone, take it easy. Nothing - I repeat - NOTHING is official yet. This is just a paper quoting an "unnamed source". Let's wait until the announcement is made by LOT. Anyone remember Iberia's A340-600 order? Allegedly 777-300ER was winning that one too, according to "unnamed sources"...


Now get your f***ing Jumbo Jet off my airport!!! - AC/DC "Ain't No Fun To Be a Millionaire"
User currently offlineTravellin'man From United States of America, joined May 2001, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7373 times:

I think the most interesting word in that article is "lease" because it implies another customer who has not yet come forward, perhaps ILFC or GECAS?


It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5803 posts, RR: 47
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7342 times:

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 5):
Very likely in this case.. Poland's blind alliance with GWB in teh Iraq war question was the beginning 'of a strategic partnership' with the latter... what would have happened if Poland received all these grattitudes of the US and ordered Airbus

I think you can be forgiven your ignorance in Polish-American relations. Poland and the Us have had extremely strong ties since the end of communisim primarily because of US support for Solidarity in the 80's. There is also a huge Polish-American community which has strong ties back to Poland. So for you to say that the LOT sale cements ties to GWB and Iraq Wa is totally wrong. Polish-US ties are a lot more deeper than you give it credit for.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
25 Jet-lagged : But sometimes other considerations may be more important. For some countries - Israel, Taiwan, Korea, and China come to my mind - I can imagine that
26 Toulouse : I'm always amazed how posters here can claim that the 787 is "far superior" to the proposed 350... Where are you getting this insight from? Anyway, I
27 NYC777 : Try this..787 - 237 orders; A350 - 10 orders 'Nuff said.
28 Post contains images Yago : I thought LOT needed a new a/c "urgently" to replace the 767s? And once more I'm scared at reading some comments from supposed air fans. Personnally,
29 Leelaw : Actually, strong Polish-American political ties go all the way back to the American Revolutionary War. Cities and towns in the U.S. aren't named in h
30 Starrion : And what happens if EK and the other Airbus-centric airlines of the Middle East pick up 50-100 A350's at the Paris Airshow? We're fortunate to see a t
31 NYC777 : The A350 will probably pick up sales but IMHO it will be nowhere close to what the 787 will get. At that point Airbus would have invested $5-6bn for a
32 DAYflyer : I would also say I think EK will order at the Paris show, or they already have and it will be announced at that time. Airbus keeps talking about a 50
33 L410Turbolet : Although I would think that building Poland's strong position within the EU is now far more important than acting like (another) Bush's lapdog.
34 Starrion : Absolutely. It may be in Boeing's best interest for Airbus to proceed with the A350 as is. It would leave Airbus in the same position as Boeing was w
35 MidnightMike : No information about the A350, that is probably what the customers are saying.
36 Leelaw : What's the implication of your comment? The EU/Eurocrats will extract significant political/economic revenge on Poland if LOT places an order for 5-1
37 Jet-lagged : I think you are right. Poland's future is with Europe, not the U.S. and especially not with GW Bush. On topic, I do hope they order the 787. Having l
38 Post contains links Hoya : Here's a link to another article in English with the same information: http://gospodarka.gazeta.pl/gospodarka/1,54642,2690497.html If LOT is really le
39 Mham001 : As opposed to Chiracs lapdog? Don't forget- "unnamed" sources. How many planes will LOT eventually need? More than just these 6? If not, this isn't s
40 Leelaw : Perhaps the Poles are a little more skeptical and hedging their bets since most of the major European powers have historically raped Poland.
41 Joost : A380: ~ 150 orders B744Adv: 0 orders. When I would now say "the Airbus 380 is far superior above the 744 Adv" it would cause a flame war. My only poi
42 Milan320 : To further that, us Poles are skeptical of everything, even of ourselves. Sad but true!! /milan320
43 MidnightMike : Very bad example, there is no 747Advanced program, Boeing has not offered the 747Advanced for sale & have not agreed to sell it.
44 PolAir : What grattitudes did we recieve? Some expensive second hand F-16? Or maybe 6 month "vacation" in Iraq for 2500 teenagers every 6 months? Or maybe a 1
45 Hoya : This decision will be considered very political. In the article I inserted the link for, it briefly mentions that the heads of state of the three mos
46 Post contains images RayChuang : Before people on this message thread and people have to start , I think LOT will buy the 787-8 or 787-9 for this reason: it fits their year-round pass
47 AirbusDriver : How do all of you know witch aircraft is better???
48 NYC777 : You don't get it. Polish-American relations predate GWB and has been extremely strong (dare I say maybe just as strong as US-UK relations). By saying
49 NYC777 : Hello, anyone home? The 747Adv isn't being offered to sale. If Boeing isn't offering it to sale they won't have any order. You make this too easy. Pl
50 PolAir : Well said. [quote=Hoya,reply=45]This decision will be considered very political. In the article I inserted the link for, it briefly mentions that the
51 Joost : You have a better one? I'm open for it. By the way, it wasn't about the example, but about the point of availablity. 3 Months ago, when Airbus didn't
52 DeltaWings : Anyway, the 747ADV will be smaller then the A380 on purpose, because the 747ADV has a different market to fill. One could also say the 747ADV is more
53 AirbusDriver : I bet France, Germany and the UK are going to be very happy that all the money they give Poland are going to go to Boeing or I mean Japan... It's kind
54 Airways6max : The 787 would be good for LOT's transatlantic routes. Just the plane for the Warsaw-New York run.
55 Hoya : Because the airlines in those countries are private. LOT is still government owned. I believe the actual stake is somewhere around 67%. In this case,
56 Mexicana757 : It seems that some who have posted think that just because a country joins the EU it must buy Airbus planes to show their support for the EU. This is
57 PolAir : I know they are private, but still none has ordered 350 yet? Unlike gov. owned airline, they have a free choice.
58 Leskova : And, just to see the second part of that arguement: how many of them have ordered B787s so far? Does the A350, in that regard, still look so bad? Eve
59 AirbusDriver : [quote=Leskova,reply=58] Even though it's been said about a thousand times - the EU does not force any member country to buy Airbus planes for it's re
60 Post contains links and images Danny : The article is pure speculation to say the least. His secret source told him about LOT picking 787 with deliveries in....2006 Also he is talking about
61 Toulouse : Sorry NCY777... it's not "enough" said. That doesn't hold as a valid arguement. Give Airbus more time, and then we'll be able to make a better judgem
62 NYC777 : Try again..19 airlines have spoken loud and clear of the 787 vs. A350 'NUFF SAID!!!
63 Danny : Really? I thought that when first orders for 787 were placed there was not a signle word about A350 - so they picked B7E7 over A330.
64 Jacobin777 : yes....Chicago has THE largest Polish population of any city in the world outside of Warsaw..........hard working, very nice and community oriented p
65 Tockeyhockey : i love comments like these. has anyone considered the fact that in every single way, the 787 will be superior to the a330? maybe lot is making the de
66 Post contains images Danny : Thanks for kind words about my fellas in Chicago
67 Wingman : I also agree the 350 will proceed and though I know Boeing will fight as hard as possible for EK, there is a silver lining in the order going to Airbu
68 Leelaw : You're all wet Wingman. Kindly re-read the appropriate chapters of "Emirates/Airbus Big Book of Marketing Mythology" by Clark & Leahy.
69 Jet-lagged : Including the neighbors to the East and West, and the Great Powers of 20th century. But what has the U.S. done in the last several years?
70 Post contains images Codeshare : The "Rzeczpospolita" article also said that the first delivery of the 787 is expected in 2006. Than it says that the 787 will begin service in 2007 Th
71 DLKAPA : Possible 789 order then?
72 Toulouse : Still disagree with you on this NYC777! 'NUFF SAID!!! !!!
73 Post contains images Milan320 : You beat me to it Codeshare. A lot of discrepancies in that article. It goes on to say in one paragraph, that LOT would save money for their crews on
74 LifelinerOne : I think Airbus will winn this LOT order. They will probably supply interim new A330 in 2006 and will replace them with the A350. This will also give L
75 Galapagapop : Are you saying they should have only joined to buy EU planes? What about the currency, free trade? Not to mention all the other benefits. Its not to
76 Post contains images USAF336TFS : And no one from a.net let's their politics shine though huh? If the story is true, then it'll bolster Boeing's market strategy and outlook forecasts.
77 Olympicbis : Of course not. But being a member of EU, they could have considered EU products a little bit more than what they did. After all, if you ask to enter
78 Post contains images UAMAYBACH1239 : Your reply said the 787 didn't sale in the begining, except for ANA. That means it did sale in the begining. When someone refers to the 787 vs the A3
79 Columba : Pure speculation, both are not close deals. Besides LH will not buy either A350 or 787 in the near future, their oldest A340 is only 10 years old so
80 AGrayson514 : ...wait, so is LOT state owned then? Because people here are talking about political pressure from Washington, which no one was talking about when NW
81 AussieItaliano : Did anyone ever stop to think for a second that maybe the choice of a new aircraft (if this article is true) could have nothing to do with the Iraq wa
82 Post contains images Atmx2000 : Freudian slip? LOT would be getting used if they fly Airbuses? It's not simply a matter of money. It's more a matter of not taking the politically ex
83 Post contains images AGrayson514 : Seriously though, it LOT state run or not? Try as I might I could not find it on this website or google, or even LOT's own website... probably just lo
84 USAF336TFS : Well, after tonights annoucement from NW, I'm starting to have serious doubts if we'll ever see an A350 fly. By my count (255, please correct me if I
85 Danny : Yes, the majority stake belongs to Polish government. Swissair liquidator has 25% (that LH is interested in) and employees have something.
86 NYC777 : Oops, NW is now on board. 20 airlines and 255 orders for the 787vs 1 airline for 10 the A350. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
87 BlueSky1976 : LOT said they need 6 frames to maintain their presence on North American market and eventually expand into India and Far East. I could see them getti
88 Leskova : NW, AC, First Choice = Private Companies. LOT = Majority Government Owned. Draw your own conclusion... You're absolutely right - it could have absolu
89 Backfire : Both off the mark, I'm afraid. The Polish Treasury has about 68% of LOT. Another 25% is held by the Swissair administrators. The rest belongs to empl
90 Post contains images L410Turbolet : I am only guessing based on means used by the US government over here - openly threatening through its ambassador (Bush's crony and new ambassador to
91 Post contains images Toulouse : Don't smoke a pipe NYC777... can I put it in a Marlboro light and smoke it? Thanks BlueSky1976, glad to see someone agrees with me on this.
92 Milan320 : 68% is state-owned, although Poland's PM Belka, despite arm twisting from both the EU and Washington, said that he wouldn't get involved and let LOT
93 NYC777 : Or get some rolling paper and some weed.
94 N1120A : Ok, here is the thing. LOT currently flies 767s across the pond and otherwise. The A350, even the -800 model, would be a 30-50 seat capacity increase
95 Schipholjfk : It's freaking grand total of SIX airplanes... get a hold of yourself. If both EU and US Governments wasted their time over six planes given all the o
96 AirbusDriver : Like the A332/A343/A380 You are still talking out of...You Know!!!
97 Leskova : Aside from the point that I wasn't specifically saying that Poland should order A350s (actually, I specifically said that they should oder whatever i
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