DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3090 times:
This goes especially to the guys working at Delta, as I have a few questions regarding DL's way of using their fleet.
1) Looking at the flight schedules to Europe and deep South America, Delta will be using a total of 48 763s for their longhaul flights, out of a total of 59. Of these 59, 8 are configured for domestic flights, leaving a total of 3 back-up planes. Are those numbers accurate, and where are the back-up planes based?
2)Does DL have any plans to shorten the RON's in LatAm? Because looking at the schedule, it appears that at most stations there, 1 plane will RON for at least 12 hours, of not even 15, which certainly doesn't help the average utilization.
3) Does DL plan to add any tag-on legs to their South American flights to new destinations, like e.g. GRU-ASU, EZE-MVD or BOG-MDE?
4)How efficient are the ER3s in DL's network in relation to their bigger brothers, the ERJs?
5) What is the general number of back-up planes, and does DL have any plans to reduce that number?
6)Will Delta ever evaluate operating red-eyes from the West Coast to CVG (except for SLC and LAX, which have redeyes to CVG)?
That should be enough questions for now, any info appreciated.
PBIflyguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 248 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3007 times:
Not a fleet guy, but look at other recent decisions. LAX-JFK is now all Song. Maybe some of the 763's that previously flew that city-pair will be used in South America?
Padcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2958 times:
I don't know the answers to your questions but I do know this. Delta stopped for the most part these Intl 767-300's from being utilized on domestic trips. They said they could get better utilization by sending them out again from ATL/JFK rather than doing legs to the West Coast. It involved some new maintenance scheduling. Maybe someone can add to this?
Also I'd expect the number of 300 used for Intl to grow, and to see less domestic use of widebodies. The 200 should be leaving the fleet as well.
Alb222 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 222 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2909 times:
Quoting DAL767400ER (Thread starter): )Will Delta ever evaluate operating red-eyes from the West Coast to CVG (except for SLC and LAX, which have redeyes to CVG)?
Incitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3777 posts, RR: 14 Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2855 times:
Three backup planes do not equate to three spares on a not-so-new 51-unit fleet. Planes may be parked at maintenance facilities for extended periods of time for regular maintenance.
DeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2803 times:
Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 2): Delta stopped for the most part these Intl 767-300's from being utilized on domestic trips
Yea, their reasoning for that was a little confusing. Of course, sometimes, you will have to rotate the planes in and out domestically, so you are sure to see some ATL-JFK/ATL-CVG runs with them, but no more of the ATL-LAX or ATL-SEA type flying. I think that was originally done just as a frill for the passengers up front. If the plane is gonna sit in ATL until tomorrow, why not throw it out for an LAX roundtrip. That way the FC folks can get J class instead. But now that the 762's are going to be retired, I would expect to see the 76ER's turned into internation configs, and replaced with either the 757 or the 767-300 non-ER, whichever suits the market better. Like I said, the reasoning was a little confusing as how it came out to me, but you get the entire overrall picture.
As far as the LAT America RON's, I don't know. Sometimes a plane might sit that long because it is best for the flight, despite losing money. For instance, the plane can sit overnight for 15 hrs, but also provides the best connection opportunities once you get back to ATL, rather than making the person wait longer or have fewer connection possibilities, because that would drive them to another carrier. I doubt adding any tag alongs to those flights. Tag on flights traditionally are not real moneymakers, just a way to stay in a market(not true for all, but most).
As far as the redeye's to CVG, it all depends on what the market can hold. Most people don't like redeyes in the first place, they are regular non-rev specials out of the West. Considering that, and the fact that if the conx opportunities in CVG would be worth adding a redeye, then it may eventually happen. This is all theoretical, of course.
Sorry I couldn't have been more of a help, just woke up.
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2709 times:
Quoting Alb222 (Reply 3): Redeye SFO-CVG back this summer.
Good, at least one more flight.
Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 5): Sorry I couldn't have been more of a help, just woke up
If you're that helpful having just woken up, I can't wait to see what you are able to do when fully awake . Has been informative .
About the red-eyes, I can see why pax don't like them, but I just thought that there was too big of a difference in the number of red-eyes, as ATL will get 16 or 18 this summer, while CVG will only see 4.
DeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 19 Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2657 times:
1) 1 is based at JFK and is also a Song spare (whose internal code is 22). If you are ever in JFK it is quite obvious which aircraft is set aside to be the spare (at terminal 3). The other two are in ATL, but not necessarily set at spares. You would likely see these at the TOC. DL also does a lot of military charters with the 76L.
2) This is the cost of doing business down there. You will notice the same thing done by other carriers. In LatAM/SouthAM as those stations are typically on the same time zone it doesn't benefit carriers to provide the typical 2 hour turn. There is about a 9-10hour window during the day where if an aircraft were to leave it would arrive in ATL without having any connections. There is no plan to shorten ground time in South AM. DL is required to devote 2 aircraft to each route they choose to open up.
3) I really can't answer this question with any knowledge. I would doubt it all except possibly MVD, but even that would be a stretch and could only happen if there was a 2nd flight into the city.
4) I have no idea. I think they have them simply because it is all that was available immediately at time of purchase based on delivery schedule.
5) There really aren't any backup planes. Backup planes would be aircraft coming off charter schedules but mostly aircraft over at the TOC going through their various mtc schedules. This is why you see eqpt upgrades/downgrades as that is all the TOC can give. But day to day there are usually 10-12 aircraft considered out of service.
6) How many cities are you looking to have red-eye service? LAS, LAX, SFO, SLC all have red-eyes. I guess you want to see SAN, SEA, PDX and PHX?
However this has mostly to do with demand. All the cities have red-eyes to ATL and now a ton of 7:50am flights to fill so there is no point in adding the flight just for the convenience of the 2 people that want to go to SAN-ERI. DL wants to feed everyone through ATL for the first flights.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2562 times:
Information appreciated .
One more question though: In the (for now) unlikely case that DL wants to start a third ATL-GRU flight, would they then operate an early morning roundtrip?
Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 7): How many cities are you looking to have red-eye service?
As many as possible . But I guess you're right, it is better for DL to channel pax through ATL.
Boeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2264 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2505 times:
Back in 1998 or 1999 I flew SAN-CVG redeye, continuing on to BDL.
TWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3048 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2425 times:
hey I was unaware of Delta's SLC-CVG redeye when did this start? Last time i was in SLC it would have helped out... i ended up flying DL418 to ATL and then connecting to ORD... CVG would have been less of a backtrack
'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2387 times:
Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 10): hey I was unaware of Delta's SLC-CVG redeye when did this start?
That flight started January 31st, as part of DL's network restructuring. Departs SLC at 12:30 am and arrives at CVG at 5:56 am. It is being operated by an MD-90.
Fanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1573 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2304 times:
Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 7): 5) There really aren't any backup planes. Backup planes would be aircraft coming off charter schedules but mostly aircraft over at the TOC going through their various mtc schedules. This is why you see eqpt upgrades/downgrades as that is all the TOC can give. But day to day there are usually 10-12 aircraft considered out of service.
The JFK-SLC-JFK flights #159 & #188 have often been switched to the non-ER 763 aircraft based on the above info. I think that's why they never clear more than 24 people on upgrades to Business class before the flight incase of the switch. I have no proof, just a hunch based on experience.
Also I've heard that DL has a few 763-ERs that are in domestic config that are being switched over to the international config.
Skibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2250 times:
Quoting Fanoftristars (Reply 12): Also I've heard that DL has a few 763-ERs that are in domestic config that are being switched over to the international config.
More importantly, when is DL going to update their "Award-winning" BusinessElite? It is getting a little dated and not as competitive.
Fanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1573 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2229 times:
Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 13): More importantly, when is DL going to update their "Award-winning" BusinessElite? It is getting a little dated and not as competitive.
What do you mean????
From DL's website:
"Welcome to Delta BusinessElite®, one of THE WORLD'S BEST intercontinental business class products in the sky. Experience the difference of added space and amenities on your next flight to Brazil, Chile, Europe, India, or Japan."
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10188 posts, RR: 63 Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2213 times:
Quoting DAL767400ER (Thread starter): 2)Does DL have any plans to shorten the RON's in LatAm? Because looking at the schedule, it appears that at most stations there, 1 plane will RON for at least 12 hours, of not even 15, which certainly doesn't help the average utilization.
This is simply how thinks work on South America flights. Business travelers, those who fill the front cabins of AA/DL/CO/UA on South America-US routes, prefer to have the entire day to do their work either in South America or in the US, and thus the flights remain on the ground at their South American terminator stations from morning until night. There is demand for daylight flights, but this is pretty much limited to only two routes in all of South America: MIA-GRU and MIA-EZE, and AA is already flying a daylight flight to GRU and apparently wants one to EZE.
Quoting DAL767400ER (Thread starter): 3) Does DL plan to add any tag-on legs to their South American flights to new destinations, like e.g. GRU-ASU, EZE-MVD or BOG-MDE?
Besides the issue of traffic rights, I doubt if DL could ever fill planes to ASU, MVD, MDE, etc. All of these markets have somewhat limited demand to the US (relative, of course, to the cities DL already serves -- GRU, GIG, SCL, EZE, etc.). In addition, what little traffic DL would be able to capture would almost all be low-yielding connections as almost all of the premium O&D demand to the US is going to Miami, where AA already has the entire market completely dominated. There are not too many Paraguayans or Uruguayans going to ATL, after all.
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2182 times:
Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 13): More importantly, when is DL going to update their "Award-winning" BusinessElite? It is getting a little dated and not as competitive.
Why should DL update it? It is still as good as it was back when it was introduced, it is just that other airlines have invested in even better business classes. And just as a side info, since BusinessElite likes to be compared to BusinessFirst, with CO always having "the much better business class", DL actually has a larger pitch, by 5 inches.
DLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3529 posts, RR: 9 Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2145 times:
I think they will have to work out their financials first.
Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 13): More importantly, when is DL going to update their "Award-winning" BusinessElite? It is getting a little dated and not as competitive.
DL has been doing surveys with their PM pax about the re-do of their Biz-E service (I got one, 500 free skymile for my opinion). No idea on when they will introduce it, but it will have lie-flat and pods. The survey was mostly about how they will market it, and not so much about config.
Skibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2138 times:
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 16): It is still as good as it was back when it was introduced, it is just that other airlines have invested in even better business classes
That was my point, it may still be as good as when it was introduced, but it has fallen behind the competition. Despite having 5" more pitch then CO, the BusinessElite seats are almost 3" narrower on the 67s and 1" narrower on the T7.
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2130 times:
Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 17): No idea on when they will introduce it, but it will have lie-flat and pods
Probably when they have money again. Also, remember they only recntly reduced the number of seats in BusinessElite, so I doubt a reconfiguration of their product is of any importance for them at the moment.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11200 posts, RR: 61 Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1993 times:
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Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 8): One more question though: In the (for now) unlikely case that DL wants to start a third ATL-GRU flight, would they then operate an early morning roundtrip?
Not possible now. US carriers are using almost all the frequencies US-Brazil they can. There are availability only for 2 weeklys frequencies and AA has already post at DOT an outstanding 5 frequencies request to operate the second GIG-MIA.
But thinking DL can operate that 3rd GRU-ATL flight: it can be. They can start with 1 or 2 frequencies per week to "feel demand".
And DL will start in October GIG-ATL daily non stop flights (night flight).
Regards,
Lipe
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. Has been informative 
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