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EL AL Safety Concern  
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4401 times:

Link
Could not constant patrolling suffice.
And with the population at Mumbai,very difficult for a suspicious mvmt to go unnoticed.
regds
MEL


Think of the brighter side!
60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2234 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4332 times:

According to the article BA and some american airline (what US carrier serves Mumbai?) have filed the same request.


2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2964 posts, RR: 16
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4308 times:

Delta flies to BOM.

This is really getting ridiculous!



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7450 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4300 times:

NW flies there via AMS.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineNYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4176 times:

I'm sorry, from reading the article I still have no idea what a "dargah" is. what exactly does El Al want removed???

User currently offlineErikwilliam From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 2152 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4159 times:

NYCFlyer:
I think is the thing where people are above in the pic.
Why don´t someone says the truth to El Al???
It´s getting ridiculous, has India ever attacked Isarael?Any terrorist cells from there?Osama is there?
Jesus, too ridiculous.....

if the article is true, and they do remove the prayers place, then El Al will want everything from everywere.

a bit too much isn´t?
why they just don´t fly there anymore, if it´s so unsafe?!?!?



Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4154 times:

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 4):
still have no idea what a "dargah" is.

A Dargah is a place of worship for Muslims.Although other faiths visit it too.A small Mosque.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineMKEdude From South Korea, joined May 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4143 times:

No doubt there are ideal spots from which to launch an attack in the flight path of every major world airport, it would be impossible to tear them all down.

That being said when it comes to security El Al knows what they are doing. No El Al plane has ever been lost due to a terrorist action. Do you think that is because nobody has ever tried? Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT all out to get you!



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlineTranStar From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4091 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I wonder what the passenger loads are for El Al on the TLV-BOM route? I think they fly the 767-200 there, correct?

Does Israel do a lot of business with India? Defense items? etc.?

My partner's brother in Israel works for a pharmaceutical company and they were examining building a plant there. He traveled on El Al.


User currently offlineShawnnyc From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4041 times:

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 7):
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT all out to get you!

So first off Jews have lived in India for centuries and never been attacked by Hindus nor Muslims. Israelis should feel safer in India than most any place in the world. Second they are paranoid. Made the big mistake of flying EL AL and going to Israel. Searched 5 times (not the baggage search at check in, the full come to the back room full search and dragged all 6 of my friends with us). Basically if you're brown and not Israeli, you will be searched fully. But it is their airline, their country and their values. So now that I know it, I know not to ever fly EL Al and not to every again visit Israel.


User currently offlineLY4XELD From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 857 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3955 times:

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 9):
Second they are paranoid. Made the big mistake of flying EL AL and going to Israel. Searched 5 times (not the baggage search at check in, the full come to the back room full search and dragged all 6 of my friends with us). Basically if you're brown and not Israeli, you will be searched fully. But it is their airline, their country and their values. So now that I know it, I know not to ever fly EL Al and not to every again visit Israel.

A bit of an overgeneralized statement, wouldn't you say? The article didn't cite any source or quote from El Al which shows their position, except that no one was available for comment. If these are the attitudes that you'd bring to Israel, I'm sure you won't be missed.



That's why we're here.
User currently offline4xRuv From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 388 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3887 times:

hmm... Well then:

Quoting TranStar (Reply 8):
Does Israel do a lot of business with India? Defense items? etc.?

The answer is yes, Defense, high tech business (India has developed on this area so much). In addition, many Israelis travel India. LY has 2 weekly 762/752 flights.

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 9):
Basically if you're brown and not Israeli

Well, its basically if you're not an Israeli civilian.

But if we return to the subject, have you guys ever seen BOM? It can be heaven for terrorist. There is this boxes hood right near the runway, (I actually saw a dog "marking his territory" on one of the landing gears of a 737).
There is no fence there and anyone who wants can walk down the runway, so El AL security is worrying about that mosque?

[Edited 2005-05-06 23:26:38]

User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3855 times:

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 4):
I'm sorry, from reading the article I still have no idea what a "dargah" is. what exactly does El Al want removed???

From Google:
The place or complex where the Mazar of a muslim saint is situated and where the people assemble for religious merit

...and Mazar:
Grave or tomb of a saint

Geoff M.


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3843 times:

Quoting TranStar (Reply 8):
I wonder what the passenger loads are for El Al on the TLV-BOM route?

I'd imagine very high. Many Israelis visit India (especially after their army service).

Quoting TranStar (Reply 8):
Does Israel do a lot of business with India? Defense items? etc.?

Israel and India are both high-tech democracies threatened by their Muslim neighbors...And the old adage "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" holds true. Israel and India do have close defense ties.

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 9):
Second they are paranoid

If they stopped being paranoid, they'd have hijackings.


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3772 times:

Although a somewhat minor issue the current "war on terror", it seems that perhaps the loss of the concept of "compromise" has not only been lost in the United States, but also in the rest of the world.

Can India not see El Al's concern? Can Israel not understand India's position? Do they believe a mutually beneficial situation can not be found?

I believe that a quick and effective solution will be found.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

I agree completely with the quote from the article: "This is one more absurd request the airline has made. Earlier, they wanted guards posted at the Juhu aerodrome, fearing a terrorist attack,” said an airport official."

Sorry but this is paranoia at its best and totally ridiculous. If LY fears a terror attack they should rather quit operations than asking for the demolishion of a building near BOM airport.

Actually I can't belive that this is true, what a joke!

Patrick


User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3731 times:

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 15):
Sorry but this is paranoia at its best and totally ridiculous. If LY fears a terror attack they should rather quit operations than asking for the demolishion of a building near BOM airport.

Actually I can't belive that this is true, what a joke!

Seriously, I love how people value their freedom on these boards, but it's so easy to be offended and blow off security concerns when you're NOT the target of constant attacks. When it's your job to assure the safety of passengers and people on the ground, and you know you're a MAIN target of attack, you do everything you can to protect your interests, including making difficult and even outrageous requests.

LY has the safest flights from a security perspective in the world next to AF1 for a reason, and it's not because of anyone here on A.net, that's for sure.



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3722 times:

Quoting Geoffm (Reply 12):
From Google:
The place or complex where the Mazar of a muslim saint is situated and where the people assemble for religious merit

actually, the definition is a bit off...Muslims dont' have "saints" such as there are in Christianity, there are "Imams" and "scholars"..but theres really no hierarchy in Islam....

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 13):
Israel and India are both high-tech democracies threatened by their Muslim neighbors...And the old adage "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" holds true. Israel and India do have close defense ties.

care to elaborate on your ridiculous comment?



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3695 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 17):
care to elaborate on your ridiculous comment?

Care to elaborate on your emotionally charged usage of "ridiculous"?

I'll take a quick stab at what RJ was saying here, since it's you know...world news, and not exactly a secret:

India and Pakistan almost got into a shooting war as recently as 3 years ago, and both have nuclear arsenals. Pakistan? Muslim majority. India? Not a Muslim majority.

Israel has, at best, an uneasy truce of fear with every single one of their neighbors except Egypt, and the only reason the truce is there is because they have Nukes, and they've soundly trounced their neighbors in every war since 1948. Neighbors? Muslim majorities. Israel? Not Muslim majorities.

I'm not saying that all parts of both countries' conflicts are due to religion, but to pretend they have nothing to do with religion is just as "ridiculous".



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3640 times:

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 18):
Care to elaborate on your emotionally charged usage of "ridiculous"?

hmmm....lets see..I asked the poster to elaborate on what i felt was a "ridiculous" comment.........now would you care to explain as to how my question was "emotionally charged"......i asked a simple question to a comment which I thought was outlandish..

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 18):
ndia and Pakistan almost got into a shooting war as recently as 3 years ago, and both have nuclear arsenals. Pakistan? Muslim majority. India? Not a Muslim majority.

First of all..India's "minority" Muslim Population is almost the entire size of the United States population...so India has a massive Muslim population....

The Indian govt. is known to have human rights abuses, as does the Govt. of Israel (as well as United Nations violations)....does that make all Hindus/Buddhists/Sieks and Jews as people who believe in human rights abuse...no..not one bit...

By making umbrella comments such as "democracies threatened by Muslim neighbors" is a prejudistic and racist comment towards all Muslims.....

Your comments reflect how little you know about world conflicts....

Now....try going to 3rd world countries and other places of conflict.....and then let me know...maybe we can then have an intelligent conversation.... Wink



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3602 times:

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 16):
When it's your job to assure the safety of passengers and people on the ground, and you know you're a MAIN target of attack, you do everything you can to protect your interests, including making difficult and even outrageous requests.

Did you hear of such a (really!) ridiculous requests before of any other airline/in any other country?

As I wrote, if LY is as paranoid as that, they should better cancel their BOM flights instead of demanding to tear down a building near BOM airport.

It is better for both, LY and the city of Mumbai without such a ridiculous security measures.

Patrick


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3574 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
so India has a massive Muslim population....

Except it's a massive Muslim population as part of a massive Indian population. 100 Million out of a billion is still just 10%.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
By making umbrella comments such as "democracies threatened by Muslim neighbors" is a prejudistic and racist comment towards all Muslims.....

Nothing prejudiced about it. Rather, it is a fact. Both Israel and India are democracies that are threatened by non-Democratic Muslim neighbors. Do you dispute this? It is natural that they are allies, just as it's natural that Israel and Turkey are allies.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3539 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 21):
Except it's a massive Muslim population as part of a massive Indian population. 100 Million out of a billion is still just 10%.

130 million+ of any group is enough to warrant a "large" population....and even if they are a minority, what does that have to do with having to tear down a mazar for 130 million+ Muslims...because LY want it due to "security" concerns?

They can get away with such acts like that in Isreal, but not in India.....if LY doesn't like it, they can fly somewhere else.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 21):

Nothing prejudiced about it. Rather, it is a fact.

fact according to who....you?

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 21):
Both Israel and India are democracies that are threatened by non-Democratic Muslim neighbors. Do you dispute this?

Funny, if I can recall, Isreal is the only country in the Middle East with nuclear weapons.....maybe you should ask the Palestinians who are the ones feeling "threatened"... Once again, you need to learn a bit more about Indo-Pakistani politics and the history behind it before making a blanket statement......



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3528 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 22):
fact according to who....you?

How about according to anyone who studies government? Israel is the sole democracy in the region. India is a democracy neighbored by non-democracies. But, if you don't choose to believe me, feel free to consult Freedom House:
http://www.freedomhouse.org/pdf_docs...esearch/freeworld/2003/map2003.pdf

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 22):
Funny, if I can recall, Isreal is the only country in the Middle East with nuclear weapons.....maybe you should ask the Palestinians who are the ones feeling "threatened"...

HAHA. Dude, if Israel nuked the Palestinians, they'd be killing themselves...Nice try though.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3498 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
First of all..India's "minority" Muslim Population is almost the entire size of the United States population...so India has a massive Muslim population....

Second in the World,more muslims here than in Pakistan.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 20):
As I wrote, if LY is as paranoid as that, they should better cancel their BOM flights instead of demanding to tear down a building near BOM airport.

The Concern is its a Dargah,In India tearing down any religious monument,even a smallest one can have disastarous consequences.

Also the Dargah is visited my many faiths,not only Muslim.Typical of Mumbais religious places.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
25 Bennett123 : It seems that there are two issues here; 1. The Dargah is NOT on the airport site. If you demolish every building with a clear view of a runway or run
26 LY7E7 : The trade is measured in billlions of $$. The major deal that should be mentioned are the IAI AWACS planes sold to India and the Druve VIP helicopter
27 Lemurs : That's because while it's gaining popularity the world over, it's still not quite as fun to preach moral superiority at the US and UK as it is at Isr
28 Post contains images RJpieces : Seeing that TLV is probably the safest airport in the world, that wouldn't be a problem. LOL! I rarely actually laugh out loud to things written on A
29 CORULEZ05 : I don't think it is anything new for El Al to be requesting extreme security. I mean, I absolutely agree with El Al because there are A LOT of terrori
30 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ummm...lets see, I never said that Israel nuke Palestine.....they have other ways of violating human rights and UN Resolutions you MUST be kidding???
31 SFOMEX : A friend of mine told me a similar story. I know that EL AL puts security ahead of everything and it's hard to blame them for doing so. Yet, for thos
32 Richard28 : Well said Bennett123, There are Muslim areas in London underneath LHR flightpaths as well. And,I think, quite possibly, they may have cars as well, so
33 Lemurs : It's not their territory, but that doesn't mean they can't ask to have issues they see as security threats addressed! If they don't get them answered
34 Post contains images 4xRuv : I can't believe I'm dragged into a political debate but here we go... We've learned from the best. If it's not on TV it doesn't mean it doesn't happen
35 Leskova : As RJpieces already mentioned, I also think you misread that part. El Al has every right of requesting these things - just as much as the country tha
36 Jacobin777 : I never said that..El Al certainly has rights to safeguard their plane and passengers..if they want to do extra screening and searches, etc. they hav
37 4xRuv : So how do you suggest LY to defend itself from ground to air missiles? Have you considered what would happen if someone in your neighborhood will hit
38 Shawnnyc : Exactly my thoughts. Israel has every right to treat people however they want in their country. But I have no desire on my vacation to feel like a se
39 Jacobin777 : one can't, its a difficult situation, but that is a risk El Al must take.... I've never argued with you on that, but its still not my concern about E
40 Lemurs : And it's El Al's choice on how and where to operate. You keep riding this very high moral horse around, but you're projecting evil intent onto their
41 Post contains images Jacobin777 : now lets see, maybe if you read my other posts on this thread(one which is above one of your retorts), you would have known that my comments are NOT
42 RJpieces : LOL. How does El Al security violate your rights? Also, how exactly are you paying for El Al security? Last time I checked, the Israeli government su
43 Post contains images HAWK21M : Currently.Its status quo. regds MEL
44 AIR MALTA : I will just ask not to throw such comments because this issue is not so simple as your quote suggests it. India is threatened because of a land dispu
45 Post contains images HAWK21M : Kashmir. Its a question about Cross border terrorism regds MEL
46 4xRuv : Sorry to tell you, but LY security does not rely on skin color, but rather your nationality, and some other factors (for example if you've visited Ar
47 Lemurs : I think part of the problem here is that you're arguing that they have no right to tell you what to do, but they never TOLD you what to do. You're ma
48 HAWK21M : From the Airport it has a clear view of the Dargah. I dont think it would be moved. BTW ELAL is still operating.Afternoon Halt for the crew as its B76
49 HAWK21M : Issue has settled down.ELAL Continues to Fly to Mumbai & the Dargah continues to stand. regds MEL
50 Erikwilliam : Guys, I´ve replyied to this thread on mey 6th (re 5) and it´s still going on....damm, the longest I´ve seen in here, and it´s about nothing. As so
51 Pmg1704 : Only the paranoid survive. When there are people in who will fire missiles at your country's airplanes, you tend to think a bit differently. Next time
52 Erikwilliam : thank god the places I fly don´t have this problem, neither my country, we have different issues. meaning it´s easy to say no.
53 RJpieces : Uh huh.
54 Post contains images Himmat01 : The AAI and the Maharashtra Govt need to clear the slums around the airport before even considering the LY request. I have been to the 'dargah' and it
55 Jacobin777 : "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790), Hi
56 HAWK21M : Thats an Interesting Suggestion.It has a good View too. regds MEL
57 EDKA : do people have some sort of obsession with EL AL or Israel?? This issue has been completely blown out of all proportions by some members, when really
58 Karan69 : I dont mind that too--but for now i am happy that the matter has been settled
59 EK156 : RJpieces, you really need to read your 2 comments above again clearly. This is a very touchy political issue that we should not go into on this forum
60 N79969 : I think El Al's request, even if unreasonable, is certainly understandable. I do not think they are being paranoid as they are being derisively labell
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