RJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4931 times:
It seems that NW's order for 787s will be mostly for expansion and not to replace any aircraft...So this must mean that we can expect a lot of new routes!
Anybody want to throw out some ideas? Keep in mind that the 787 can do to the Pacific what the 767 did to the Atlantic, meaning that the 787 will allow airlines to open up all sorts of new niche routes.
Boeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2246 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4905 times:
As long as NW gets the rights, this could open DTW to mainland China, restoring nonstop service to PVG, PEK, etc.
Also, NW could replace the 747-400 on JFK-NRT with the 787, thus increasing yield.
Pilottim747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4863 times:
It'd be nice to see a return to old international routes that dont have the demand for a B744 but a B787 might do the trick. NW used to have a MSP-KIX and a MSP-HKG flight.
Quoting Boeing757/767 (Reply 2): As long as NW gets the rights, this could open DTW to mainland China, restoring nonstop service to PVG, PEK, etc.
That seems like good speculation too. I wouldn't be surprised if the B787 lets NW start DTW-PEK and DTW-PVG again.
pilottim747
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Ti717 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 227 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4844 times:
Looking at the Range vs Seats I am thinking High Yield markets. Make the Pax pay for the Non Stop. Fuel cost may be cheaper but the crew cost are the same. (Routes that you can now do with a stop in NTR or AMS)
On that Note:
DTW-DXB
DTW-India ??
MSP/DTW-SIN (BKK?)
MSP/DTW-HKG
MSP/DTW-Cape Town
MSP/DTW-China
Sir, don't you think we should turn on the runway lights?" "No, that's just what there expecting us to do!"
BOSPMV From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 305 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4771 times:
which model of the 787 are they getting, looking at the ideas being thrown around in thie thread, i'd guess they are buying the -8 or -9. What about the -3, any chance of getting that to replace some of the 753s on domestic routes?
or what about expansion into new markerts, Sydney, or Athens, or even Dubai or Instanbul?
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25729 posts, RR: 86 Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4702 times:
Quoting B742 (Reply 1): Will the 787 replace the 757's?
No
Quoting Boeing757/767 (Reply 2): Also, NW could replace the 747-400 on JFK-NRT with the 787, thus increasing yield.
Not a chance. They oversell JFK-NRT as it is with the 744 and it is a very profitable route. There is no reason to drop both profit margin (lower seat-mile on the 744) as well as margin dollars
Quoting BOSPMV (Reply 5): What about the -3, any chance of getting that to replace some of the 753s on domestic routes?
That is a jump of something like 50-70 seats, something NW does not need
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4247 posts, RR: 50 Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4683 times:
I hope to see these NWA B 787s flying daily to BOM, BLR and DEL from AMS in the near future.
Other hopeful routes include 4 weekly each DTW-DXB and DTW-IST (catering to the massive Arab population in Michigan state area and from IST coordinate with TK or other airlines for feeder services to THR-BEY-AMM-DAM etc).
AC787 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 337 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4535 times:
Is Syd-DTW actually doable. The 787-800's range is given as 8500 and the distance of that route is 8250. Is this enough of a margin to cover things such as head winds and such for the route to be operated without severe penalties?
N808NW From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 374 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4521 times:
Since NW has established DTW as the world gateway, I dont see NW placing too many new int'l routes out of MSP. I can see CDG, FRA, HKG, NGO, and KIX to be possible from MSP. Then again maybe not even one of those would happen.
I also believe NW may move its Euro hub from AMS to CDG in the next 4 or 5 years because of the KL/AF merger and that they are now a part of Skyteam. Its just a though.
-Jason
All flights have great IFE...get yourself a window seat, thats something no PTV can beat! flew 808 Pacific an Atlanic
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25729 posts, RR: 86 Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4515 times:
Quoting AC787 (Reply 12): Is Syd-DTW actually doable. The 787-800's range is given as 8500 and the distance of that route is 8250. Is this enough of a margin to cover things such as head winds and such for the route to be operated without severe penalties?
The distance of the route is actually 8225nm, and no, the restrictions would be severe. You need a 772LR for this route. LAX/SFO/SEA-SYD are more likely with the 788 if they wanted
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
AC787 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 337 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4489 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 15): The distance of the route is actually 8225nm, and no, the restrictions would be severe. You need a 772LR for this route. LAX/SFO/SEA-SYD are more likely with the 788 if they wanted
Thats what I thought,thx
How many planes does it take to run a daily service to sydney from say LAX? I think the number is 3, would that rlly be worth it for NW with the amount of 787's there getting initially I doubt it. Hopefully by the time theve excersized there 50th option for the 787 theyll have the flight
Indy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4368 posts, RR: 10 Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4464 times:
Quoting N808NW (Reply 14): Since NW has established DTW as the world gateway, I dont see NW placing too many new int'l routes out of MSP. I can see CDG, FRA, HKG, NGO, and KIX to be possible from MSP. Then again maybe not even one of those would happen.
If there is O/D demand for it in MSP they will do it. NW isn't going to double handle passengers just for the sake of making the international flight originate from DTW. It wouldn't make financial sense. You do NS whenever possible. That would be consistant with the approach NW has taken with their focus cities.
If you can fill a jet going from point A to point B you don't make it divert to point C.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 30437 posts, RR: 77 Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4442 times:
I think some people are thinking a little too into this. The 787 is nothing revolutionary for trans-Atlantic. The 787 doesn't suddenly make routes like Detroit-Birmingham viable. What the 787 opens is new possibilities in thin, 10h+ routes. There is nothing Detroit-Europe that can't already be done with an A330 or DC-10.
Quoting Indy (Reply 18): If there is O/D demand for it in MSP they will do it. NW isn't going to double handle passengers just for the sake of making the international flight originate from DTW. It wouldn't make financial sense. You do NS whenever possible. That would be consistant with the approach NW has taken with their focus cities.
If there is O&D demand from Minneapolis, then chances are, in nine out ten cases, that there is greater O&D demand from Detroit, so they'll do it from Detroit.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25729 posts, RR: 86 Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4409 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20): I think some people are thinking a little too into this. The 787 is nothing revolutionary for trans-Atlantic. The 787 doesn't suddenly make routes like Detroit-Birmingham viable. What the 787 opens is new possibilities in thin, 10h+ routes. There is nothing Detroit-Europe that can't already be done with an A330 or DC-10.
Except that the 788 is smaller than either the A330 or DC-10 and burns about 30% less fuel than the A330 and around 50-60% less than the DC-10, making marginal routes much more profitable
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Indy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4368 posts, RR: 10 Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4404 times:
If there is enough O/D demand from both cities then they are going to need more than 1 jet for the route wouldn't you agree? Because if there is enough in MSP to justify a flight and there is MORE in DTW then they obviously have enough for more than 1 flight. Running one flight from DTW means the people in MSP have to use another airline. Flying BOTH flights from DTW would be foolish. If the case is that there isn't enough O/D at either location to completely fill a jet then I can see where they'd use DTW. But that would be the only valid reason.
BOSPMV From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 305 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4355 times:
so NW would rather feed people through DTW to destinations in Asia, and not MSP? I could see how Detroit would have good O&D demand, bigger pop and they have the auto industry to feul the business traffic.
does NW use any of the dc-10s for transatlantic routes? I know they use to 333 for the daily BOS-AMS flight.
i remember the first time I flew on NW back in 96, I flew a DC-10 from BOS-MSP, then MSP-SAN, it was great, to bad they dont use them for domestic flight inside the continental U.S anymore.
Will SEA see the 787 for the NRT flights do you think?
26 ZK-NBT: How about LAX-AKL, it needs a little competition and the 787 would be an ideal aircraft for NZ to start with.
27 Checo77: I see very viale the route DTW-PRG. I think PRG is already ready to recieve more services to/from US and Canada. I think the demand is there. Regards,
28 Centrair: I think that NW will focus on its asian routes. It needs to add more direct routes to compete with CO, and UA. They have slowly been getting more dire
29 Burnsie28: They already said they will shortly, most likely before the 787 arrives. very unlikely to happen, first off NW in the press release mentioned that it
30 Joost: As I'm Dutch, I might be a little biased, but I don't see this happen. A few reasons: 1. CDG does not have too many capacity left. When all the NW fl
31 MauriceB: would be a bit stupid of NWA when they pull out of AMS and instead fly to CDG.... in adition to joost: 1- NWA is very happy with the clean AMS airport
32 AC787: AirNZ will be operating that route with there 787's and do they get there planes earlier then NW, id think yes. CO doesnt have that impressive of a P
33 TWA902fly: I also think that NW will stay in AMS, they are doing a good job there, and i dont think they'd want to start any fights with Delta and invade their C
34 ZK-NBT: From my previous reply I actually meant it would be an ideal aircraft for NW to fly to AKL, rather than NZ to fly to LAX, NZ pack the 744's to LAX no
35 EmiratesUK: My bet is NZ will use the 787 to fly the AKL-NAN-RAR-PPT-LAX run vv How many have they ordered I think its only one? which is a really strange amount
36 ZK-NBT: NZ have ordered 2 787's, not sure which version though. Yes i'm sure they will use them to LAX daily via the Pacific Islands. If it performs well the
37 Indy: Is it possible the 787's will eliminate the need for the gateway cities of BOS and SEA allowing NW to stick with international departures from DTW and
38 Joost: I don't see them quiting from BOS or SEA! If you can support a non-stop route, it is usually good for yields. It's not that the BOS-AMS travelers woul
39 Aa777jr: Will any of the NW 787 replace current DC10 routes? Regards.
40 Xlpants: Talk about disasters waiting to happen! Oh my god! A reeaaaal looonnng shot! All this thread proves is that NW has hubs with lousy geography, and sma
41 Justapassenger: Since NW will probably get their 787s at least two years before any other US airline (and most foreign airlines), they should be looking to new cities
42 USAF336TFS: I would hope to see this route. I live within the JFK to Europe/all incoming (From everywhere) flight pattern here on Long Island NY and would love t
43 Joost: I think the 330's will replace the shorter DC10 routes, whereas the 787 will replace the longer DC10 routes and the longer 330 routes. Next to that,
44 Ual4me: What about some expansion at PDX? the NRT service is doing really well...
45 Xlpants: More proof for my theory! (see reply 40)
46 RwSEA: You're correct: BOS-AMS, and SEA-NRT, SEA-AMS. I keep hearing rumors about SEA-KIX returning, and about someone (either NW or AF) starting SEA-CDG. I
47 N1120A: I would not worry about this if I were you (though CDG has lots of capacity as compares to other EU airports, comparing only with AMS and MUC) Very p
48 Carpethead: Question 1: Where else does NW use its 742 except for NRT-LAX, SPN, GUM and occasional NRT-HNL? Troop charters or general charters? Question 2: Are th
49 A999: After all these years.......maybe they will have another look into Scandinavia???
50 N1120A: You pretty much hit the nail on the head. They used them a lot for sports charters, especially NFL, where the teams travel on 752/753 normally but ca
51 MAH4546: Why? While they have no local traffic rights, this flight allows Nagoya customers one-stop access to Northwest's Asian and Honolulu flights, as well
52 Carpethead: Hence, NGO-LAX or SEA could be launched which allows the NRT slots for better use. CO already flies NGO-HNL, so they could codeshare, if they do not a
53 Hjulicher: seems like it's best to have a flying dutchman miles card! You reap both rewards if you live in Holland. Anyways, my take is that the 787 will replac
54 Crownvic: How about bringing back LAS-NRT please!!!
55 Coronado990: SAN-AMS SAN-NRT SoCal needs a second international gateway.
56 Centrair: The schedule just doesn't do any good. It takes 14 hours to get to SIN from NGO if one flies NW. But if you go on SQ its just 6 or 8 I think. On KE i
57 Ejmmsu: How about a little south american action from MEM? Maybe MEM-EZE or MEM-GIG ? MEM-LGW might be another possibility. This would only require Three of t
58 N1120A: Good Luck. That actually is a very keen possibility. I also think that MEM-AMS is a major candidate for 787 service, as it will allow that DC-10 to t
59 Karan69: I doubt they will waste a 787 via AMS to BOM or BLR especially when it is capable of performing it non-stop [however i am not sure about payload rest
60 Hjulicher: NW might restart service from DTW to ICN, being that it is a skyteam hub and all as well. But, maybe not with a 787, who knows. I really like speculat
61 Leneld: It would be great to see Northwest do something more ith PDX. Maybe a PDX-AMS, or PDX-HkG.....
62 EIRules: Would it be totally stupid to suggest DTW-DUB?[Edited 2005-05-10 19:43:27]
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