OO-VEG From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 1081 posts, RR: 1 Posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5303 times:
After the Dutch Authorities banned Phuket Air from landing in the Netherlands, now Onur Air faces to lose their landing rights.
This decision has been made after an incident at AMS last tuesday when one of their aircraft had to return with engine problems. The aircraft is grounded for a safety inspection. One more incident or aircraft that proves to be unsafe, and Onur Air will be banned from the Dutch airports (from where they fly very frequently).
Bully707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5141 times:
Whow...!!!
I just inspected TC-SGA and everything looked OK...!!!
And it's a Saga Air bird...!!!
OHY has already retired 2 A300B4 at IST and keeps one A300B2 alive (TC-ONY, I believe it is...) plus they recently got ex LH A300-605R.
It is hard to believe that OHY would be risking a ban to fly to the Netherlands.
There are other carriers in Turkey that would run a much higher risk, IMHO.
MauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2420 posts, RR: 35 Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5076 times:
i think when they are banned from all dutch aiports (22 flights a day at least?) it would be a huge blow for Onur Air , and then im not sure if they will be still alive after that decision...
Bahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1649 posts, RR: 13 Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4979 times:
I heard they got some A300s from Pakistan International. Is that correct?
I hope they either get their act together and shape up, Dutch airports have been money makers for them.
Bahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1649 posts, RR: 13 Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4821 times:
oo-veg,
L1011? Where did they get one from? It's strange.. Onur is starting to look like Holiday, FlyAir, Air Anatolia , Akdeniz, Bosphorus European Airways, etc.etc.
I remember when they had all A320 fleet in mid 90s when they first started..
AJO From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 575 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4744 times:
Last tuesday an 8Q A300 returned to AMS shortly after take-off because one of the engines was on fire and had to be shut down. It is said that the engine needed replacement, but 8Q wanted to fly the aircraft to Turkey to be repaired. The aircraft was then grounded by Dutch authorities, and a replacement engine was flown to AMS. The plane took off about 14 hours after the incident, with a new engine.
The L-1011s that have recently operated for 8Q are 9L-LDN of Star Air and EX-044 of an unknown operator.
Bully707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4620 times:
Quoting Bahadir (Reply 7): Onur is starting to look like Holiday, FlyAir, Air Anatolia , Akdeniz, Bosphorus European Airways, etc.etc.
Oh please...I hope not !!!!!!!!!!!!!
To me it is still one of the best run Turkish operators...IMHO.
Well don't hit me for that, but the a/c making trouble, are those "true" 8Q a/c or wet-leased ones for the summer????
Fly Air, as well as B.E.A were just bad...really bad!! Sorry if I hurt somebody's feelings....but just look at TC-FLA.
Before it got a new paint (which it badly needed... ), still wearing the basic Sudan Airways colours, it was a true shocker!!!!
Terrible....
Anyway...I hope Onur gets through these rough waters safe !!!!!
Diesel1 From UK - Wales, joined Mar 2001, 1623 posts, RR: 15 Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4592 times:
Quoting OO-VEG (Thread starter): After the Dutch Authorities banned Phuket Air from landing in the Netherlands, now Onur Air faces to lose their landing rights.
This decision has been made after an incident at AMS last tuesday when one of their aircraft had to return with engine problems. The aircraft is grounded for a safety inspection. One more incident or aircraft that proves to be unsafe, and Onur Air will be banned from the Dutch airports (from where they fly very frequently).
Peter
What's the source of this information that Onur Air would be banned?
OO-VEG From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 1081 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4552 times:
NOS News on the radio mentioned it. News is now also on the Dutch Aviation news site Luchtvaartnieuws.nl, they have the news from The Telegraaf (which I need to say, is not the most reliable source available, though as NOS News mentioned it as well I'd say it's trustworthy).
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 3644 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4522 times:
Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 11): What's the source of this information that Onur Air would be banned?
The quote comes from the Dutch Civil Aviation authorities (IVW). The main reason for this warning is that they (IVW) see a deterioration whereas Onur was going well (the airline is on the IVW watchlist for almost a year and things seemed to improve). Moreover the IVW has mentioned Onur last week specifically as one of the airlines which it follows. Last weeks wet lease of a L1011 (the 9L-LDN) didn't exactly go well with the IVW (although the Dutch spotters wouldn't mind sending another exotic L1011 or whatever). Also note that none of the exotic L1011s will return this weekend.
BTW just to complete the picture. One of the reasons IVW is increasing its inspections is that public opinion in The Netherlands isn't very pro-aviation (unless it means flying cheap yourself). Moreover last year we had two major incidents concerning aircraft to/from AMS (both were L1011s) which caused a lot of questions in the public and in the parliament. Finally we still remember the notorious Air Alfa.
Quoting Bully707 (Reply 10): To me it is still one of the best run Turkish operators...IMHO.
I think Inter and Pegasus aren't run badly either...
KL911 From Hungary, joined Jul 2003, 4328 posts, RR: 17 Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4452 times:
Ah!
The most famous airline from my (ex) home airport.
It's been all over the regional newspaper the last 2 weeks, and they are NOT popular at all. But ok, what can you expect from a Turkish charter airline, after all the Alfa air and many other problems
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 7912 posts, RR: 14 Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4440 times:
I flew Inter Airlines a few years ago and they were excellent. Nice crew, nice inflight service and nice new aircraft (738). INX is a good airline in my opinion. Too bad they don't fly so often to AMS, will INX lease additional aircraft for the summer?
Bully707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4335 times:
Quoting LJ (Reply 13): I think Inter and Pegasus aren't run badly either...
True...for Pegasus especially!!!!
Quoting KL911 (Reply 14): .....they are NOT popular at all. But ok, what can you expect from a Turkish charter airline, after all the Alfa air and many other problems......
Please...you can't compare Onur to Air Alfa or Anatolia....!!!
They (Onur) have been around much longer...and hopefully will be in the future!!!
It would be sad to see all their A300 go....IMHO.
Bully707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3313 times:
I just had a word with an A300 captain of Onur;s TC-ONY, and he said the problems at AMS were because of the wet-leased Tristars...and a Surinam 747-200...????
Any infos about that from our friends at Schiphol????
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 3644 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3108 times:
Quoting Bully707 (Reply 18): I just had a word with an A300 captain of Onur;s TC-ONY, and he said the problems at AMS were because of the wet-leased Tristars...and a Surinam 747-200...????
I think the captain doesn't know what he's talking about. Although the wetlease of the Tristars didn't help (the IVW wasn't very pleased with the wetlease but except for the 9L-LDN there weren't any problems), the problem the IVW has is with onur Air itself. The IVW has made it clear that it questions the safety of Onur Air. Moreover, the airline has been on the special watchlist for more than a year, thus Onur Air has to look to themselves instead of blaming someone else.
BTW there are no issues with Surinam Airways (at least not that I know of). If the IVW sees any shortcomings on Surinam Airways operated flights (regardless for who they fly), Surinam Airways would have received a warning (which they didn't)
Quoting Bully707 (Reply 17): They (Onur) have been around much longer...and hopefully will be in the future!!!
That isn't a guarantee. The airline has/is growing rapidly due to the increased demand for air travel between The Netherlands and Turkey (Onur Air will transport the bulk of the estimated 1 million Dutch tourists this year). In the past we've seen that rapid growth can cause problems (even for well established airlines). Moreover the problems for Air Alfa and Air Anatolia (who currently flies as Fly Air) started with a rapid expansion.
Bully707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3055 times:
Quoting LJ (Reply 19): Moreover the problems for Air Alfa and Air Anatolia (who currently flies as Fly Air) started with a rapid expansion.
Your are correct !!!
Hopefully Onur's ops doesn't work like Air Alfa and Fly Air...!!!!
I also had a word with a friend of mine at Airbus, who is part of the delivery team at Finkenwerder, and he told me that Onur has such a good reputation that they receive all spare parts without delay and advance payments being made!!!
Something, so he said, that even some "European" carriers may not achieve...
Bahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1649 posts, RR: 13 Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3036 times:
From the day it started Onur was a good airline, serving London-Istanbul market with A320s in early 1990s. For some reason at one point they switched to "let's get all the airplanes we can get" mode for summer times. I can speculate that the A300s hibernate in the winter except for the Hadj flights and they come back to become the work horse of the airline in the summer time.
I am hoping they will pull together and prevail. They are too big of a player in the market and their loss will hurt the company more than anyone else.
LifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1803 posts, RR: 10 Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3025 times:
Quoting Bully707 (Reply 17): They (Onur) have been around much longer...and hopefully will be in the future!!!
That's why it is so strange that they are screwing things up and destroying their rather good reputation. Onur Air was a very reliable airline and I flew them myself. However, with all those other airlines in Turkey that have tried and failed you should think they know what they musn't do.
Wing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1549 posts, RR: 28 Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2922 times:
The most famous airline from my (ex) home airport.
It's been all over the regional newspaper the last 2 weeks, and they are NOT popular at all. But ok, what can you expect from a Turkish charter airline, after all the Alfa air and many other problems
I think making a generalisation of all Turkish airlines with a bad example is unfair and a bit harsh.
I flew almost 4 years for Pegasus and my father flies for Onurair for the last 8 years.The first think I can say is, noone can say any word about the look of safety by these airline companies.
The appearence of the airplane,the paint or the conditions of the interior doesnt show any info about the real safety of the airplane.Most charter airplanes in Turkey are flown in Europe during the summer and leased to other operators during the winter,thats the only way that the airline can earn money.So the paints and stickers come and go,they really dont care about it neither the average passenger.All they have in mind is to reach their sunny holiday destination quickly ,safely and cheaply.
Cheap is the key word here,all passengers are avare if they pay more they can fly with better conditions(THY flies the same routes with the option of business class if you are willing to pay for it).Flying in a 737 800 with 189 pax configuration is not the best way to enjoy airtravel but is cheap. Besides Pegasus serves hot meal and compementary beverages with the service,while most others only serves snacks.
Onur planned to buy at least 6 more aircraft for this holiday season and sold the tour tickets accordingly,but with the unexpected rise of the fuel prices in the stock markets forced them to put the orders to a hold.But they sold the tickets with the 6 planes included before hand therefore they try to wet lease anything they can find in this short notice.Believe me its not easy to find at this time of the year in a very short notice.Still the choice of Sudan air can be discussed.
By the way about the MD-88 overrun at Gröningen the airplane company accepted that it was their fault and repaired the airplane for Onurair for free.The accident happened because of a flight control failure(which happened twice before on the life of MD88) and the pilots were forced to abort after V1,they made a good decision and prevented a possible crash if they continued the TO,there were only minor injuries.
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 3644 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2915 times:
Quoting Bahadir (Reply 21): I am hoping they will pull together and prevail. They are too big of a player in the market and their loss will hurt the company more than anyone else.
Moreover if Onur Air will be loose its traffic rights it will have a very negative effect on the Turkish tourism trade as they are the biggest player in this market.
Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 22): However, with all those other airlines in Turkey that have tried and failed you should think they know what they musn't do
However, history keeps repeating itself in the Turkish charter operator market. Every year we see one or two new airlines entering the market who either don't make it at all or shut down after the Summer season. Every year we hear those horror stories about pax who flew a particular Turkish airline and felt unsafe. Moreover every year we hear about incidents involving Turkish charter opertors (either because of technical problems or because of problems with other regulation). The cause is every year the same: too rapid expansion. I personally think it's a shame as Turkey (and most Turkish airlines) derserves a better reputation, but the way things currently going it doesn't look good for 2005 and I fear the worst for tourism to Turkey.
25 Diesel1: I'm suprised that the Dutch authorities allowed the Sierra Leone registered Tristar to fly to the Netherlands - the UK has banned all Sierra Leone reg
26 LJ: The Dutch IVW didn't know it was coming. Originally a Jordan registered L1011 was to do the flight when, to the suprise of the spotters, this L1011 a
27 OO-VEG: Today in the Telegraaf and on Luchtvaarnieuws.nl: An Onur Air A300 made an emergencystop in Antalya last saturday. The aircraft was heading for AMS bu
28 Diesel1: Aah.. I understand, but... Exactly... the point is that surely the standards you would expect to be set would be consistent across the EU. A question
29 Jmc757: I think this is just the problem. Onur Air do seem one of the better Turkish Operators out there, have a fairly good reputation, and seem to have pro
30 OO-VEG: No it doesn't. I might be wrong, but wasn't Phuket Air banned in the Netherlands before the UK followed?? I think both authorities just have differen
31 L410Turbolet: I don't want to hijack this thread but since Air Alfa and Fly Air were mentioned several times... Can anyone briefly explain me what caused the bad r
32 Diesel1: Yet Dutch authorities allow an aircraft considered unsafe in a country just a few miles away to fly to there... how can this be? In fact, as we know,
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