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Ryanair 737-200  
User currently offlineDrinkstrolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3256 times:

I know that Ryanair are in the process of getting rid of their ageing 200 fleet to make way for the 800 series, but when is this going to be complete? I know it's perfectly safe, but you can't help but wonder as to the overall condition of an aircraft that is over twenty years old!

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3192 times:

I often wonder if the 800 will be too large for some existing 200 routes like LBA-DUB, I think the 737-7 would have been better suited to some Dublin services to secondary UK cities.

User currently offlineDiesel1 From UK - Wales, joined Mar 2001, 1635 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3164 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 1):
I often wonder if the 800 will be too large for some existing 200 routes like LBA-DUB

Why too large? Wouldn't better economy on fuel burn help make up some of the difference, plus the '800 gives the option to grow the routes?

Quoting Drinkstrolley (Thread starter):
I know it's perfectly safe, but you can't help but wonder as to the overall condition of an aircraft that is over twenty years old!

Whoa... pointless comment...  Smile you say that the aircraft is 'perfectly safe' and then query the overall condition.  irked 

Anyhow, it's not the age of the aircraft that matters, it's how it was designed, flown and maintained that counts.



I don't like signatures...
User currently offlineAerlingus330 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 834 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3159 times:

I was on a Ryanair 737-200 last July and I thought that It was in pretty good condition. Apart from being dirty of course...Buy hey, Its Ryanair.

Quoting Drinkstrolley (Thread starter):
when is this going to be complete

I think that it is nearly complete.

AerLingus330



Aer Lingus Airbus A330-300
User currently offlineDrinkstrolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3129 times:

The comment "perfectly safe" is judgement placed on the obviously highly stringent maintenance procedures laid down by the CAA (or IAA in this case), but I can't help but wonder if the age of an aircraft would have an effect on the overall probability of it being involved in some incident or another, maybe fatigue related - hence the question. There's nothing pointless about the question.

Surely, from a simplistic point of view, irrespective of how well maintained an aircraft is a brand new shiny 737 has to be in better "nick" than a 20-25 year old one?


User currently offlineFLYtoEGCC From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 947 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3107 times:

Quoting Drinkstrolley (Reply 4):
...I can't help but wonder if the age of an aircraft would have an effect on the overall probability of it being involved in some incident or another, maybe fatigue related...

If this is the case, then the issue that has to be considered is airframe hours and cycles, not age. A 25 year-old aircraft that has spent long periods of its life unused and in storage, and has been properly maintained, will be in better "nick" than a 10 year-old aircraft that has flown an average of 10-12 shorter cycles for the duration of its life.

In the case of the Ryanair 737-200s, I see your point and their heavy utilisation and short routes would probably cause them to be higher on cycles than average, but even so the CAA/Irish Authority wouldn't let them fly unless they were 100% safe - so I wouldn't worry too much about the overall condition.

Having said that, while I'm not a nervous flyer, I was once slightly alarmed to see an orange fluid seeping down the back of a Ryanair 737-200's engine cowling at 30,000ft, only to be told "Ah, it's no'tin teh worry about! It's jus' t'hydraulic fluid, it's normal!"



Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away...
User currently offlineA340600 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 4104 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3093 times:

Having said that, while I'm not a nervous flyer, I was once slightly alarmed to see an orange fluid seeping down the back of a Ryanair 737-200's engine cowling at 30,000ft

I wondered the same!

Funnily enough, just saw one smoke past to DUB, still used on all the LGW rotations to and from DUB, despite what the timetable says. I too thought the condition wasn't bad onboard and seemed pretty good, although I had no life jacket under my seat!

I expect that we wil not say goodbye to the final one until well into, or after, the Summer, I will miss them though, make a nice change from the "boring" quiet stuff Wink,

Sam Smile



Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
User currently offlineDrinkstrolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3077 times:

My other comparison being I recently watched two Ryanair movements from my local airport Bournemouth which were both 200's and the exhaust fumes are clearly visible (black to be precise), you can also see this when they come in on approach. Yet, when the Palmair 737-200 (of a similar age) is on approach on departing there's none of it......what's this all about? Time for an oil change perhaps?


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User currently offlineFLYtoEGCC From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 947 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3058 times:

Could be... or it might be that the engine exhausts haven't been cleaned out and there's a lot of carbon in there, or the engines are just generally ready for a service... the best place to ask that question is in the Tech/Ops forum.

[Edited 2005-05-10 19:36:22]


Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away...
User currently offlineDrinkstrolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3052 times:

I'd rather not know...........!!!  Wink

User currently offlineIrishMD11 From Switzerland, joined Jan 2004, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3013 times:

Quoting FLYtoEGCC (Reply 5):
Having said that, while I'm not a nervous flyer, I was once slightly alarmed to see an orange fluid seeping down the back of a Ryanair 737-200's engine cowling at 30,000ft, only to be told "Ah, it's no'tin teh worry about! It's jus' t'hydraulic fluid, it's normal!"

H'mmmmm That happened to meself as well. Jasus, weren't we out of Geneva now destination DUB a few years ago(FR7009, EI-CJH). The stewardess even spoke(!) with the Captain about what I'd noticed about the starboard engine, and sure if we can't count upon our Angels, then the Irish leprechauns might just be beside us...

Let's face it, those amongst who "consult" these threads and know /understand what's really going on out there with engines or other systems won't get upset. But that the other section of the travelling public who see an engine "pissing" black (my case) engine oil have to accept the cabin crews' explanations goes a little too far.

To treat any passenger as an "ignoramus" will not serve in the long term.

Slan for now!

Gerry



ATR 72,Avro 85,BAC 1-11,Concorde,Trident,BAE146,BN Islander,707,727,737,741,743,744757,767,772,773,DC-9,DC-10,MD-11,MD-8
User currently offlineJmc757 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2000, 1296 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2958 times:

Also saw the orange liquid seeping down the engine cowling, but I was on a European Aircharter 732. Assumed all was normal, certainly got me to Palma and back no problems...

User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6291 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2937 times:

Quoting Drinkstrolley (Reply 7):
and the exhaust fumes are clearly visible (black to be precise), you can also see this when they come in on approach. Yet, when the Palmair 737-200 (of a similar age) is on approach on departing there's none of it......what's this all about? Time for an oil change perhaps?

I doubt that any old JT8D engine can ever run without producing a little black smoke. How much it shows up is very dependent upon the lighting, the relative position of the sun, overcast or blue sky etc.

Anyway some engines will smoke a little more than others. Most often the reason is carbon soot buildup in the combustion chambers. The soot layers will slightly change the airflow to less than optimum, disturbing a perfect combustion of the fuel.

It is nothing to worry about. It means a slightly reduced thrust and a slightly increased fuel consumption. And it shows that the engine is closing in on the day when it is up for a major overhaul including cleaning of the combustion chambers.

The FR 732's are closing in on the day of last flight. If they have good bean counters (and I would guess they have) then they will try to make the engine on-wing time run out near the day of last flight. That probably explains that few remaining FR 732's are a little more black-trailed than average these days.

Newer high bypass ratio engines have a higher compression ratio in the core. Therefore they have a more efficient fuel combustion, and less soot buildup. Therefore they can often run through their whole on-wing time without producing noticeable black smoke.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineEIN145 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2918 times:

I'm by no means a nervous flyer under normal circumstances but I am a little uneasy on the Ryanair 732s. Only been on them twice but the interior was so shabby that it was hard to convince myself that the rest of the aircraft was much better. I'll be glad to see the back of these aircraft. I think they're to be phased out by the end of the year but that was a rumour I heard. I understand there have been some workforce relations issues in DUB with pilots regarding training for the -800.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2916 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 1):
I often wonder if the 800 will be too large for some existing 200 routes like LBA-DUB

Not really, as the lower seat-mile cost will allow FR to offer more lower priced tickets on the route and fill the aircraft that way. Add to that, the market on UK-Ireland is pretty strong no matter where you go in the UK. If you simply factor in VFR traffic, add in tourists, filling the aircraft should not be an issue. FR has acted on some routes by cutting frequency by 1 flight to make up a difference.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 1):
I think the 737-7 would have been better suited to some Dublin services to secondary UK cities.

It would keep crew scheduling more complicated, as well as not allowing FR to simplify to an "any plane, any flight" schedule. As it is, they had to do like WN and run the 732s as a subfleet out of DUB. This allows them to end that.

Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 2):
Why too large? Wouldn't better economy on fuel burn help make up some of the difference, plus the '800 gives the option to grow the routes?

It helps make up some, but the 738 is much heavier than the 732. The winglets are going to make an even bigger difference.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDrinkstrolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2795 times:

Quoting EIN145 (Reply 13):
I understand there have been some workforce relations issues in DUB with pilots regarding training for the -800.

I heard that, something about Pilots being tied into a longer contract or paying to leave the company early to cover the cost of the type conversion training or something?


User currently offlinePilot kaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2779 times:

How did I know BOH would fall into this somewhere....  Yeah sure

User currently offlineDiesel1 From UK - Wales, joined Mar 2001, 1635 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2759 times:

Quoting Drinkstrolley (Reply 15):
I heard that, something about Pilots being tied into a longer contract or paying to leave the company early to cover the cost of the type conversion training or something?

Quite the norm within the airline industry - training costs big bucks, so if you leave before a certain point in time you have to repay your training costs or an element thereof - same thing applies in other businesses too.

What has been more controversial is that pilots have been expected to pay for their training to convert to a new type when the airline has decided to remove one model from its fleet and replace it with the new type

If they don't pay for their training costs, then they're shown the door...



I don't like signatures...
User currently offlineUK_Dispatcher From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2001, 2582 posts, RR: 30
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2710 times:

Quoting Jmc757 (Reply 11):
Also saw the orange liquid seeping down the engine cowling, but I was on a European Aircharter 732. Assumed all was normal, certainly got me to Palma and back no problems...

Here is the explanation:

Yellow Streaks On 737-200 Engines In-flight..... (by UK_Dispatcher Jan 19 2005 in Tech Ops)


User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4119 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2607 times:

Quoting A340600 (Reply 6):
Funnily enough, just saw one smoke past to DUB, still used on all the LGW rotations to and from DUB, despite what the timetable says

Thats funny, because my sister has been back and forth to Dublin from Gatwick twice (4 flights) this past month and has got on a -800 each time, and the return flights were different flt numbers, with the outbound flight being FR113 both times.


User currently offlineUK_Dispatcher From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2001, 2582 posts, RR: 30
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2580 times:

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 19):
Thats funny, because my sister has been back and forth to Dublin from Gatwick twice (4 flights) this past month and has got on a -800 each time, and the return flights were different flt numbers, with the outbound flight being FR113 both times.

It still seems to be mainly -200s here at MAN. I saw three different ones yesterday, so some are certainly still going strong at FR.


User currently offlineDrinkstrolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2556 times:

Quoting UK_Dispatcher (Reply 20):
It still seems to be mainly -200s here at MAN. I saw three different ones yesterday, so some are certainly still going strong at FR.

I'm not too sure what the deal is at BOH, I think they're still used to DUB and the 800 series used to Girona and Glasgow. However, I'm going BOH->DUB shortly so I will be interested to see if a smokey 200 poles up to take us there!. I'm not a huge fan of Ryanair normally after being treated like a sh*t before when the flight was cancelled and I had my three year old with me, so we go Flybe ex SOU normally, but three of us one way £32.00 inc taxes etc I'm not really in a position to expect the world!!!!

[Edited 2005-05-12 09:53:16]

[Edited 2005-05-12 09:53:54]

User currently offlineEuropean From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2420 times:

Hey

Welcome to A.net Drinkstorlley. Another BOH member!  Big grin LOL

Bournemouth currently is having Ryanair operate the Old Boeing 737-200's on the BOH-DUB route,I have NEVER seen a 737-800 operating the route from BOH.

Never flown with FR, And don't think I will why the 737-200's r still around.

cya

Jimmi


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