Azstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 541 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5065 times:
Fargo is served by 3 RJ's to ORD, 4 RJ's to DEN, and 8 mainline flights to MSP. By contrast, similar, or smaller cities have more nonstops to more cities, and larger aircraft. FSD, for example, has slightly less population than Fargo, serves a smaller area, and has more nonstop service to Denver, Chicago, Cincinnati, MSP, and Phoenix. FAR airfares are some of the highest in the country. What gives?
Supa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4983 times:
Keep in mind that Fargo is so distant from any other hubs that profitability would be very difficult. Do you really think PHX daily flights would cut the mustard? LAX? NYC? Hmm, gonna say no.
So population / market size has something to do with it, but FAR is 1,000 miles from any other hub not already served... a unique problem but very important. One daily to DFW might work, but overall the MSP service is most logical from a flight time / crew hours perspective.
Concentriq From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 368 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4951 times:
FSD has many of the big IT companies moving their operations to Soux Falls. Seems to be the trend lately. (Apperently land is cheap and salary standards are low in SD   . So naturally you are going to have many of business travelers going in/out of FSD. hence more flights
Bakersfield, CA, is the 64th largest CMA (Consolidated Metropolitan Area) in the United States, and RAPIDLY expanding. Projections are that by the year 2010, its neighbor to the north, Fresno, will be over one million, and Bakersfield will not be far behind.
Yet what kind of air service does BFL have? BFL-PHX x4 and BFL-LAS x1 (HPExpress), BFL-IAH x3 (CO Express), soon to be BFL-SLC x2 (Delta Express), BFL-LAX x6 and BFL-SFO x2 (UA Express). No mainline flights - only EM2's, CRJ-200's, and EMB-145's.
As recently as 1998, UA Express was the only airline in town. Other services have slowly trickled in, but nowhere near the levels from the 1980's (AA, UA, CO mainline to DFW, DEN, ORD, & SFO).
Yes, yes, there are extenuating circumstances - BFL is too close to LAX, virtually no tourism, etc, etc...but if you look on the list on the link provided, look at the cities preceding and following Bakersfield - despite relatively similar populations, their airports have MUCH more service.
My two cents worth.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
Stirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 27 Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4725 times:
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 8): BFL is the most underserved airport in the United States
If we're talking about the San Joaquin, I'd say Stockton is by far, the largest city in AMERIKA without any airline service....with a metro area of over 500,000, (city of over 250,000) the airport hasn't seen airline service since HPX pulled out a couple of years ago..Modesto, (city 208,000) and 29 miles to the south, fairs no better, just a few dailies to SFO on UAX Brasillias..
So to answer your question, No. Some places would KILL for the airline service of Fargo.
Azstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 541 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4658 times:
FAR SMSA was 174,000 vs FSD 172,000 in 2000. Growth rates have been about the same. FSD City is larger than FAR, but urban Fargo consists of several cities which are completely conjoined, including West Fargo with about 15,000 people, I think.Your points about the type of traffic are probably valid. I don't mean to turn this into a thread about which is bigger.
ILOVEA340 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2100 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4579 times:
I tell you that here in Eugene (EUG) I feel that we are very underserved. All RJ and Dash-8 service. USed to have a nummber of mainlines under United Shuttle. Now we have a few RJ's that are oversold on a virtually daily basis...
TWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3048 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4542 times:
Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 5): Do you really think PHX daily flights would cut the mustard?
Well FSD-PHX works... so i am guessing FAR-PHX would work... however Fargo is not as big as many of you think - 90,000 people isnt that much. Having flown out of there - it is pretty amazing that an A320 serves FAR. Also North Dakota is owned by Northwest Airlines - Everyone in Fargo flies Northwest - anyone who flies there is a WorldPerks member pretty much. United provides the competition for everyone else. There's not really room for anyone else - AA could send ERJs from ORD - but that would compete with UA's CRJs and they already have their service well established. Maybe DFW-FAR with ERJ-135s could work? Other than that theres no hubs close enough for any service. For now Fargo remains in the middle of nowhere - the only service i could see is a summer seasonal NW DTW-FAR, but i am not sure that would be needed. ANyways - to conclude - ND is very well covered by Northwest Airlines
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
ExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9 Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4502 times:
Quoting Stirling (Reply 11): If we're talking about the San Joaquin, I'd say Stockton is by far... (snip)
Yeah, but Stockton is only about an hour from SJC, SMF, or OAK. And a lot of the catchment area you're citing is even closer to one of those three airports - the population of the City of Stockton itself is only about 250,000 (2000 census.) BTW, there's no "k" in "America."
In terms of service relative to market size (total catchment area, not just metro area), I'd submit Fresno is probably the worst-served city in America, although Bakersfield has a good case.
Quoting STT757 (Reply 14): I would say Atlantic City with 34 Million annual visitors has the most underserved airport in the US.
But the majority of those visitors come from New York City, other parts of New Jersey, or Philadelphia - buses or driving (or NJ Transit trains from Philly) are perfectly adequate. It's only a one-hour drive from Philly to Atlantic City (at least according to Mapquest...probably more during commute hours.)
While there might be some room for more flights from other parts of the country, once you get out of the Northeast you run into the fact that if it takes the same amount of time to travel to AC or Vegas, the vast majority of people will choose Vegas. If AC continues to grow, this could change in the future, though.
Cloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4373 times:
In downstate Illinois -
Peoria, Decatur, Champaign, and Springfield will all tell you they are underserved. I'll tell you what my hometown's boosters would say. Springfield gets only a few CRJ's to Ohare and three Jetstreams a day to Saint Louis. Ohare is a pain to deal with. Saint Louis does not have nearly as many connection options as it once has. Springfield is the state capital. It has many white-coller industries that require travel. It is a tourist destination.
But this is what the town boosters won't say. We are about an hour and a half from STL(Saint Louis) and even closer than that to BMI(Bloomington). Bloomington is a smaller city than Springfield, yet it gets much more air service. Why is this? I suspect it is because if you look at a map of central Illinois, you will find one city that is in the center of it all and that is Bloomington. Peoria, Decatur, Champaign, and Springfield are all about the same distance to Bloomington. So that is where the air service goes. Free parking and sustainable low fare service through Airtran helps also. We had low fare service through ATA's Chicago Express once, but was not sustainable due to high CASM's in regional aircraft.
Also, Springfield's tourism industry(we get it because we were Lincoln's hometown for most of his life) does not contribute a lot to air traffic. The vast majority of tourism is drive in family traffic from Illinois and neigboring states. Those that come from farther out fly to Chicago or Saint Louis and see that as their main destination. They go to Springfield as a secondary destination. There are only a tiny number of tourists that fly directly to Springfield.
State workers fly a lot but mainly just to Chicago. The insurance industry (Horace Man, etc.) does create some traffic but they simply are not big enough in Springfield to create the ammount of traffic needed to get more service.
IN SHORT.... Air service is about more than population and distance to other cities. A large number of other factors are involved, and the relative importance of each factor changes depending on which city one is speaking of. Everyone thinks they don't have enough air service, but usually that is not the case when you look at things more closely.
Burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7411 posts, RR: 9 Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4333 times:
Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 20): I would say that grand-forks, ND is the most underserved. Fargo at least has more than one airline serving it. I wanted to visit UND Aerospace and the only NW served the airport.
So because NW was the only airline serving GFK, you couldnt visit UND, let alone try and go there?
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
AviatorTJ From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1838 posts, RR: 8 Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4268 times:
You could have flown a real airline to FAR. Coming from anywhere but the midwest (I see you come from SFO) you can get decent UAL fares. The drive to FAR from GFK is worth it if it gets you a better alternative.
I hardly thing FAR is underserved. Sure in ND there are not too many choices for airlines, but as desolate as it is, people should be thankful for anything. I bet I could come up with some airports that are more deserving of service than anything in this state.
We're the only way out.
25 Senorcarnival: But you're less than 150 miles from PDX. Remember that almost 15% of your population are UO students (20,000 out of 140,000 inhabitants of Eugene/Spr
26 Mir: Please tell me you're kidding. Urban Fargo? What urban Fargo? The place is almost entirely suburbs. Cities? You must mean Minneapolis. Not really und
27 Stirling: Moorhead...across the river in Minnesota. When I was a child, working on bombers at GFAFB, we'd go to the "Big-City" for a change of pace...the big c
28 ExFATboy: *snicker* That's a good one...the Governator does do interesting things with English, doesn't he? Didn't mean to be hostile - I didn't know you were
29 FATFlyer: The last time I went through town on 99, the population sign read I believe 252,000...it registered in my mind because it was in the area of the beau