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Let The Predictions Begin, DEN And IAD.  
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3727 times:

The other UA hubs have enough airlines covering the gaps, but DEN and IAD will be left relatively out cold, save for DEN which has F9 but F9 really only covers the larger cities, no inter-colorado commuter save Great Mistakes, and IAD has, well, Indy.

Don't get me wrong I'm not wishing doom and gloom on UA, I know alot of good people who work for them and who have worked for them, but it's clear now that something is gonna give somewhere.

It looks like all or most of the TED fleet is being leased and possibly slated for reposession, and that would hurt UA hard. Also, the 767s that are leased would account for how much of UA's longhaul (almost if not all of it)?

Keeping my fingers crossed, but how do you guys think DEN and IAD will come through the storm?

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3701 times:

Anybody think that CO would try and establish a presence back in Denver if UA were to meet its demise? If it were to happen, it would be interesting to see how the other legacies would react to an increased CO presence in the West.

BTW Funny you should mention this, because Tommy767 and I were talking about this very subject in school today.  Silly

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineAzstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 627 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3664 times:

Don't write UA off yet. They will probably be around for a long time, in spite of their financial situation and strike threats. How many years did TWA operate under bankruptcy protection?

User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3644 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 1):
Anybody think that CO would try and establish a presence back in Denver if UA were to meet its demise?

Continental already has a contingency in place if such an event were to take place and would be in there virtually immedately.

J


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3617 times:

Would they really be able to go "Poof" and all the UA signage would be replaced by CO signage and all the employees of UA be given CO clothing overnight? Ok I'm talking out my ass...

A 2 week conversion might be a bit more forseable, but what about the commuter flights to intra-colorado destinations (ASE comes to mind, CO doesn't have the equipment to go there).


User currently offlineAzstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 627 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3583 times:

In the unlikely event that UA were to disappear and CO were to take over in DEN, it would cause a major shake-up at F9. Frontier is an insifignificant airline, size wise, and CO would likely be a much more agressive competitor. F9 might be forced to merge (with CO maybe?) or be pushed out altogether.

User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3544 times:

Continental CEO Larry Kellner briefly addressed this in April at the FlyerTalk affair. He said CO would love to have a western hub. The City of Denver sent a delegation to Houston with a question of if something were to happen with UAL. CO said they don’t want to pay the high leases associated with DEN.

Also, Kellner specifically went out of his way to ‘not wish any folks at UAL ill will.’


User currently offlineFA4UA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 812 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3529 times:

Why would UA go under now? We've slashed our costs by $5 Billion a year and now another $675 million more in savings since the Pensions are gone. The unions have no legal right to strike since it was a legal change done in court, so without a total shut-down, it's business as usual (dysfunctional as normal, but still normal!)

We now are set to be the best in class for our CASM... We're now looking like a hotter commodity then ever to the Street.

FA4UA



The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3529 times:

Quoting Azstar (Reply 5):
F9 might be forced to merge (with CO maybe?)

Now that hasn't happened already, has it?  Wink



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3523 times:

Quoting Azstar (Reply 5):
In the unlikely event that UA were to disappear and CO were to take over in DEN, it would cause a major shake-up at F9. Frontier is an insifignificant airline, size wise, and CO would likely be a much more agressive competitor. F9 might be forced to merge (with CO maybe?) or be pushed out altogether.

I guess that's why CO helped F9 off the ground in the early years then?


User currently offlineBOSPMV From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3495 times:

why did CO dismantle their DEN hub?

User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3477 times:

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 4):
Ok I'm talking out my ass...

Probably the only accurate statement in this entire thread. But, you're a 16-20 airline CEO, so you must know more than I do...

Mods: how about deleting this thread?


User currently offlineF9HNLPLZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 108 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3464 times:

Quoting Azstar (Reply 5):
In the unlikely event that UA were to disappear and CO were to take over in DEN, it would cause a major shake-up at F9. Frontier is an insifignificant airline, size wise, and CO would likely be a much more agressive competitor. F9 might be forced to merge (with CO maybe?) or be pushed out altogether

Ah, I don't think so bud. F9 has built a loyal base here and is really making a difference in DEN. True, we are not as big as the others, we still know how to treat customers and they truley love us. Don't discount the little guys, they do a great job getting things done.



Frontier Airlines, A Whole Different Animal. Maybe some day to Hawaii???
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3426 times:

Quoting Stevenuhl777 (Reply 12):
Probably the only accurate statement in this entire thread. But, you're a 16-20 airline CEO, so you must know more than I do...

Mods: how about deleting this thread?

I havent seen you saying anything constructive yet, care to own up?

[Edited 2005-05-11 04:35:48]

[Edited 2005-05-11 04:36:29]

User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3364 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 11):
Probably the only accurate statement in this entire thread. But, you're a 16-20 airline CEO, so you must know more than I do...

Mods: how about deleting this thread?

Silly DLKAPA, everyone knows that if you are under the age of 25 you aren't allowed to post anything on these forums.  Yeah sure

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3342 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 14):
Silly DLKAPA, everyone knows that if you are under the age of 25 you aren't allowed to post anything on these forums.

Oh that's right, I guess that $25 bucks I paid wasn't worth anything...Btw Uhl777, How much did you pay?

Now seriously, if UA were to move and CO didn't come back in (this is all what-if here), who do you think would take up an empty concourse at DEN?


User currently offlineGalapagapop From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 910 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3306 times:

Quoting FA4UA (Reply 7):
Why would UA go under now? We've slashed our costs by $5 Billion a year and now another $675 million more in savings since the Pensions are gone. The unions have no legal right to strike since it was a legal change done in court, so without a total shut-down, it's business as usual (dysfunctional as normal, but still normal!)

We now are set to be the best in class for our CASM... We're now looking like a hotter commodity then ever to the Street.

FA4UA

And yet they still need more cuts. Mmmmm...  scratchchin 

I'll agree once I see the black...


User currently offlineCapt.Fantastic From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 750 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3294 times:

These "what ifs" will happen when Pigs are doing simulateous ILS approaches

United is not going to atrophy its hubs.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13170 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3248 times:

I wonder when I turn on the news Wednesday morning (I live in the NYC area) that there will be reports of UA flights grounded all over the country due to CHAOS, or more massive job actions by key UA employees pissed off at the airline due to the pensions crash. If there is heavy job actions at places in DEN, ORD, IAD then the beginning of the end of UA may be here.  weeping 

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11840 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3219 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 18):
I wonder when I turn on the news Wednesday morning (I live in the NYC area) that there will be reports of UA flights grounded all over the country due to CHAOS, or more massive job actions by key UA employees pissed off at the airline due to the pensions crash.

I doubt that will happen, as I think that if AFA has not begun CHAOS by now, hours after the ruling, their threats are pretty much empty and won't be carried out.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 18):
If there is heavy job actions at places in DEN, ORD, IAD then the beginning of the end of UA may be here.

If that is what is on the news tomorrow morning, then yes, the end of UA will be upon us. UA is financially dangling from a very thin thread and any major, or even sporadic CHAOS, job action, would pretty much spell the end.

For UA's employees' sake, let's hope that is not on the news tomorrow morning.


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3169 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 19):
I doubt that will happen, as I think that if AFA has not begun CHAOS by now, hours after the ruling, their threats are pretty much empty and won't be carried out

I wouldn't say that, but if it hasn't happened by 6AM EST tomorrow, you're probably right, and if it hasn't happened by noon tomorrow, you're definetly right.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3143 times:

Quoting BOSPMV (Reply 10):
why did CO dismantle their DEN hub?

Simple: CO was losing in excess of $100,000,000 annually there for quite a while. DEN can handle one major hub (UA), and a relatively smaller one (F9), but really isn't set up to handle two large hubs. CO just wasn't making money there.

Now, in a scenario where UA left the scene, CO obviously thinks the economics would be different than it was when CO pulled the hub from Stapleton.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3071 times:

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 4):
A 2 week conversion might be a bit more forseable, but what about the commuter flights to intra-colorado destinations (ASE comes to mind, CO doesn't have the equipment to go there).

UA will not any longer have equipment to serve ASE either... they're doing away with AWAC, and ASE travellers won't want a DH8.

Quoting Azstar (Reply 5):
Frontier is an insifignificant airline, size wise, and CO would likely be a much more agressive competitor.

Um, United is the second largest airline in the world.... CO could divert resources, but not as many as UA has there now. CO is not in any way, shape, or form a more aggressive competitor.

N


User currently offlineNosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3049 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 22):
UA will not any longer have equipment to serve ASE either... they're doing away with AWAC, and ASE travellers won't want a DH8.

Well it's not like they have much of a choice... save NW.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3035 times:

The average ASE passenger doesn't fly UA anyway...  Smile

N


25 DLKAPA : The numbers say otherwise. Also, There are many cities in colorado that have gone down to Dash 8 only service in the past few years and they still ma
26 MAH4546 : That's not what he meant...he was referring to private jets.
27 Post contains images AA777 : So nobody has addressed who would take over IAD since it is mostly UA that operates there. It would be a shame if UA stopped ops, esp in IAD, where I
28 Post contains images MAH4546 : Well, flyi of course.
29 Post contains images Aa777jr : DEN-CO IAD-AA This is all gonna happen when UA goes outta business on June 1st. Regards. Nostradomas
30 Post contains images Kahala777 : Why would Continental Airlines want bitter ex-United Airline employees? *Because your airline, United Airlines, has been mis-managed for over a decad
31 Post contains images Aa777jr : Hope all your slanderous quotes are correct. Your opening yourself up to a lot of flamming guy. If UA blew up on June 1, I would compare the heartach
32 DLKAPA : I'm aware of that, hence why I said the numbers say otherwise. Correct me if I'm wrong but 2x100 seat ARJ's to DEN plus the same number to LA plus a
33 Nosedive : I really don't see how 3 hubs East of the Mississippi or 2 hubs with-in a days drive of one another will help DL...
34 DLKAPA : What's the third hub?
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