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Delta Sees Big Losses For Rest Of 2005 (Fox News)  
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4588 posts, RR: 18
Posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3601 times:

I was just sent this story.

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,156060,00.html

"Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL) on Tuesday said it won't generate enough cash to meet its needs this year, raising new alarms the airline could have to file for bankruptcy in the next few months."

Interesting statement. Here is what an S&P Analyst has to say...

"Unless they sell at least one of their regional carriers, they will be forced to file for bankruptcy within the next six months," Standard & Poor's analyst Jim Corridore said. "And if they did sell a regional carrier, it still wouldn't change their overall situation. It would just buy them more time out of bankruptcy court."


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMidex461 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3574 times:

Well, to add to that. There's a story on ajc.com that states that DL is in renewed finance talks with GE and Amex. Nothing about not generating enough cash for the rest of the year.

Although, doesn't surprise me. You're trusting Fox "News".



Opinions and views expressed are MINE and do NOT represent the views of US Airways
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4588 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3557 times:

Fox always seemed to be on the level with business news. They are a little slanted to the right (ok alot slanted) when it comes to politics. But never saw anything wrong with their business stories.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineBridogger6 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3561 times:

That's too bad.. only had one trip on Delta but I liked them a lot.. PHX-SVO.. but then I've also heard they're a lot better on their international flights. Their 757 seemed unusually cramped but maybe I was just tired. Other than a rude ticket counter agent here in Phoenix (can't expect them all to be nice!), service and experience was great, I hope they make it!

User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4588 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3545 times:

I have had my best and worst experiences in travel with Delta. Best one was a return flight from Frankfurt, Germany to Atlanta, GA. Maybe I liked it so much because the flight was 1/3rd full and I was sitting in the back and there was no one around me. Of course the cute girl in customs didn't hurt either  Smile First time in my life I ever wanted to be inspected again. lol


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineLnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1608 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3468 times:

Sad indeed --

As I have mentioned to a friend of mine who frequents this website, who is a DL employee, it is a truly sad state of affairs..

But again, as I've even mentioned to him, at some point something needs to give with these companies that are loosing SO much money. They can try to cut wages, remove pensions, cut benefits, reduce service, reduce the little "frills", but it's just not going to work.

UA, DL and US should pack it in, and let the stronger carriers move on. I do NOT want to see people out of jobs, but I'd hope that the other carriers would need to pick up the slack, pick up more aircraft, and in turn, re-hire some of the people who would be out of jobs..

It's NOT an idea situation, but the governments need to stay out of it, and let the strong be strong, and the weak fail, when it comes to business.

1011yyz



Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4588 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3429 times:

The airlines definately need to get a grip on expenses. Maybe discontinue future pensions and go with a 401k plan but you cannot default on a promise you made to someone that is now retired. They definately need to rethink their routes and go with something more like what WN does. This pretty much says it all...

"Network airline hub profitability is heavily dependent on high value local traffic, according to a recent Lehman Bros. report. Connecting traffic does not cover allocated airline costs and is profitable only in a marginal context, according to Lehman."

This is a good reason why WN has had great success. They made a living on going after local traffic. They didn't get where they are by running fortress hubs where they were running 50% or less O/D. And if you are a legacy carrier you shouldn't make the mistake of cutting service to your passengers. If you want to survive you have to be better than the other guy. Give people a reason to come to you. If it comes down to price as a legacy you will lose. So win your customers with great service and frills.

Manage your costs better, rethink your routes, and provide better service.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineMidex461 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3300 times:

Quoting Bridogger6 (Reply 3):
Other than a rude ticket counter agent here in Phoenix (can't expect them all to be nice!)

Yeah, especially when they see your "PHX AWA" Badge!



Opinions and views expressed are MINE and do NOT represent the views of US Airways
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4417 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3261 times:

Quoting Midex461 (Reply 1):
Nothing about not generating enough cash for the rest of the year.

It's in the 10-Q filing the company submitted to the SEC yesterday - check it out on the web.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3238 times:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050511/ap_on_bi_ge/delta_11&printer=1

Wasn't TW stock about $2 right before they were gonna tank and AA "merged" with them?

All the blogs on UA and DL now, scary stuff. Hope everything works out.

Regards.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3235 times:

32-year low, I guess now is the right time to invest in Delta share  Silly (yes, sometimes I can be very optimistic).

User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3231 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):
I guess now is the right time to invest in Delta share

I almost thought the same thing back when TW stock was around $2.00/share.  Smile

Negative on that idea.

Regards.


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3213 times:

Why does the media report USA airline losses and loss projections? That's not news. It's routine.

REAL news worth reporting would be when a USA-based airline makes a profit.

Mark


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3162 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 12):
REAL news worth reporting would be when a USA-based airline makes a profit.

I know you meant it, but just to clarify for the anal-retentives of our humble little forums, that's USA-based legacies.  Wink


User currently offlineMilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2012 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3069 times:

Delta already terminated their pension plans, in a phase out that is supposed to end on June 30, 2010. The best thing that could happen is if they sold both ASA and Comair. Then they could negotiate the split in fares, and guess what, the ruse that these airlines make money would be over. As someone else said, at CVG, there is no LLC competition. Delta's real problem right now is the cost of fuel. The jerks who ran the airline and I guess the ones who do now, never hedged fuel. So airlines like WN are paying an average price for fuel based on $32.00/bbl of oil and Delta is paying spot market prices at 50.00+/bbl.

User currently offlineMidex461 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3044 times:

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 14):
The jerks who ran the airline and I guess the ones who do now, never hedged fuel.

Check your facts, DL DID hedge their fuel, but sold that off for the money.



Opinions and views expressed are MINE and do NOT represent the views of US Airways
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3033 times:

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 14):
Delta already terminated their pension plans, in a phase out that is supposed to end on June 30, 2010.

Does Delta know that? In that case I would consider it weird that Delta aims to receive the "UAL pension treatment" as well  Wink .

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 14):
As someone else said, at CVG, there is no LLC competition.

True, and Southwest and Air Tran at close-in airports like DAY, CMH, IND and SDF are no competition at all  Yeah sure .


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6731 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2990 times:

DL has only terminated their pension plan going forward. DL is still responsible for paying all accrued benefits which is why DL needs pension relief.

User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4164 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2975 times:

Quoting Midex461 (Reply 1):
Although, doesn't surprise me. You're trusting Fox "News".

Oh, please. Then switch to CBS so you can get all your news completely factual.


User currently offlineCloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 855 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2948 times:

The problem is that the airlines have found that they get better response if they simple hover near or in bankruptcy than try to be profitable. Do you think the execs are really that concerned with the service they provide? They get their big bucks no matter what happens. Why work to become better if you can just use the threat of bankruptcy to get every concession you need and loans from the government?

The other problem is too many pundits who incessantly try to make the LCCs out as being the best thing to hit the market. Try and get a flight from your home city to Portland, ME using only Southwest, Jet Blue, Spirit or Independence air. They LCCs can get away with only serving the profitable routes. Unfortunately America has put all their efforts into air travel, and so we are stuck with having o keep airlines afloat.

I think the big thing that needs to happen, but won't until people stop revering the LCC model, is that the airlines have to improve their offerings and make air travel at least tolerable, if not pleasant. When it comes down to it, air travel right now sucks and people are avoiding it as much as they can.



"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2881 times:

It just amazes me how DL can sustain BILLION dollar losses and continue to operate. How much longer can this go on? How they've managed to stay out of bankruptcy for this long is beyond me.....I guess that's a good thing, though.

User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4296 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2875 times:

Try and get a flight from your home city to Portland, ME using only Southwest, Jet Blue, Spirit or Independence air. They LCCs can get away with only serving the profitable routes. Unfortunately America has put all their efforts into air travel, and so we are stuck with having o keep airlines afloat.


This is a dumb statement, Cloudboy. If Portland, ME was not making money (I know this is hypothetical), then the airline shouldn't fly there. There is no reason I should be paying a legacy airline rip-off charges just to subsidize a huge network of unprofitable airports. That's bullshit. The LCCs are picking the most profitable routes (note: I didn't say 'ripping-off') which, to me, only makes sense. Why the F would they pick routes that are not profitable. I really don't understand your argument.

If the people of Portland, ME can't support a major carrier, then sorry. They'll have to drive to BOS or MHT. Ditto this for dozens of other airports around the country. That's they way it is.

Personally, I am not too fond of my tax dollars subsidizing major legacy pension plans... it is not my fault that these airlines made terrible business decisions and made promises they couldn't keep to their unions. I feel badly for the regular-guy who has worked all of his life for this, but, it ain't my fault!

BTW - is there anyone else who wonders how much Song is costing Delta? Must be a fortune!



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineNonRevKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2836 times:

Quoting Richierich (Reply 21):
The LCC's are picking the most profitable routes (note: I didn't say 'ripping-off') which, to me, only makes sense.

Wait, lemme go back...

Quoting Richierich (Reply 21):
There is no reason I should be paying a legacy airline rip-off charges just to subsidize a huge network of unprofitable airports.

So it's ok if it's an airline that you like doing it...gotcha.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 21):
If the people of Portland, ME can't support a major carrier, then sorry. They'll have to drive to BOS or MHT. Ditto this for dozens of other airports around the country. That's they way it is.

Yeah, if Jetblue won't fly to your city, screw you! You'll drive to where they do and like it!

Quoting Richierich (Reply 21):
Personally, I am not too fond of my tax dollars subsidizing major legacy pension plans...

I'm not too fond of my tax dollars subsidizing an LCC to provide new service into a city that a major has supported for years, so that works out nicely, huh?

Quoting Richierich (Reply 21):
BTW - is there anyone else who wonders how much Song is costing Delta? Must be a fortune!

Nope, just you. Those of us on Earth know better. Rich, you are a pioneer in the field of ignorance. This dead horse has been beaten enough. Song is profitable, end of story. I find it hilarious that you start off your post by calling someone else's thoughts a "dumb statement", but end it with your typical nonsense.  banghead 

B


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