Azstar From United States, joined May 2005, 199 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 993 times:
I fly a lot for business, and my preferred connection airport is DEN. I've flown UA and F9 about equally. They seem to be pretty much the same, except for the aircraft... same business model (hub and spoke), complicated and cumbersome fare structure, some good employees, some not so good, etc. The real criteria for judging their service is how they perform during a crisis, such as extremely late flight, or a cancellation. I think UA has their act together much more than F9 under those circumstances. Anyone care to share their experiences?
N1120A From France, joined Dec 2003, 22904 posts, RR: 79 Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 943 times:
Quoting Azstar (Thread starter): They seem to be pretty much the same, except for the aircraft...
How about F9's superior IFE, higher service levels, and lack of a forward cabin? What about UA's massive international network and partnerships? Oh, and UA flies a lot of Airbus narrowbodies, as does F9.
Panaman From United States, joined Sep 1999, 439 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 939 times:
You must prefer UA a little more. I have witnessed first hand a crisis at UA in which the employees were of no help at all..none of them could make a decision and all of them had different answers for the same question. Ever wonder how when a flight cancels it is usually always weather? I think I'll stick with F9 at least their F/A seem to care.
Sorry I moved from SXM, looking for a new house on Anguilla now!
Gigneil From United States, joined Nov 2002, 13499 posts, RR: 81 Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 936 times:
UA can perform better under duress because of their massive amount of flights and alternatives.
I think given what they have available, F9 does a great job.
There is no comparison between the two, IMHO, in terms of experience. F9 serves quality meals and snacks, the seats are comfortable, the IFE is massively superior, and most importantly the F9 employees make me feel like I'm not a nuisance.
I fly a lot for business, and my preferred connection airport is DEN. I've flown UA and F9 about equally. They seem to be pretty much the same, except for the aircraft... same business model (hub and spoke), complicated and cumbersome fare structure, some good employees, some not so good, etc. The real criteria for judging their service is how they perform during a crisis, such as extremely late flight, or a cancellation. I think UA has their act together much more than F9 under those circumstances. Anyone care to share their experiences?
I have never gotten off of a plane disappointed that I flew F9, or unhappy with the service. The same can not be said of UA. Like you, I tend to fly them almost equally (More F9 if I had my druthers, but corporate books the flights, I fly them).
Thankfully it's a lot nicer flying UA out of DEN then LAX.
MaverickM11 From United States, joined Apr 2000, 10406 posts, RR: 43 Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 793 times:
"I think UA has their act together much more than F9 under those circumstances. "
UA got donkey punched, or rather their customers did, in the last blizzard whereas F9 was mostly unscathed. The local media ran oodles of dire stories of long lines and complete disaster at the UA operation but only mentioned 45+ minute lines at F9.
Flashmeister From United States, joined Apr 2000, 2505 posts, RR: 17 Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 754 times:
The biggest difference that I've seen between the two is this:
F9 management has created a culture where pretty much every employee is empowered to solve customer problems and is expected to do so to the best of their ability, and in every case that I've had the opportunity to fly F9, they've performed well.
UA management has created a culture where, in the event of a customer service problem, the employee is to smile, point at anyone else, and calmly explain that it's not their problem and that they're not allowed to help, then walk away.
Which do you prefer?
My point here is that the people are largely the same -- both UA and F9 have great, good, fair, and not so great people. It's the company's culture, which is 100% the responsibility of management, that sets a completely different tone at F9.
MSYtristar From United States, joined Aug 2005, 4710 posts, RR: 52 Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 725 times:
As an employee of F9, I am constantly impressed by the overall operation of this airline. Every person I have met, from the CEO himself down, has a true passion for the industry and for F9 in particular. The corporate culture at F9 is far better that what I personally witnessed with both NW and NJ. You get the feeling that this airline really cares for its employees, so why not go the extra mile to give as much as you can back to the airline by showing excellent customer service? Now of course, i'm sure some poeple will say i'm biased becuase I work for the airline, but let me say this. My whole life practically has been devoted to commercial aviation in some form or the other...I have flown on over twenty five airlines the world over, all across the nation and the world...and to this day, I dare say that I have NEVER received better service for an economy class product than what I get on F9. It's just flat out excellent.
Azstar From United States, joined May 2005, 199 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 671 times:
"As a CSA? From Tuscon? Interesting"
FYI, Mariner, I'm a Communications Services Analyst, not a Customer Service Advisor (or whatever airlines call their airport personnel).
As for MSYtristar, I was a passenger on F9 flight which was delayed 5 hours due to a combination of bad weather and bad luck during last winter. The "manager" was at the gate telling people "you don't know what you're talking about" (literally) when they were questioning the dozens of different answers being given to people who were understandably upset about whether or not they were going to get to their destinations that evening. It left me with kind of a bad taste for the company, but I still fly them.
Gigneil has a valid point:
"UA can perform better under duress because of their massive amount of flights and alternatives."
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 10479 posts, RR: 79 Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 659 times:
Quoting Azstar (Reply 11): FYI, Mariner, I'm a Communications Services Analyst, not a Customer Service Advisor (or whatever airlines call their airport personnel).
Did I say otherwise?
But now I am really confused. If you have "a bad taste" for the company, why do you still fly them?
Azstar From United States, joined May 2005, 199 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 630 times:
I guess my point was, when you fly frequently, you have good experiences and bad experiences. It isn't fair to say one airline is consistently awful, or wonderful, 100% of the time.
MSYtristar From United States, joined Aug 2005, 4710 posts, RR: 52 Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 627 times:
Quoting Azstar (Reply 11): The "manager" was at the gate telling people "you don't know what you're talking about" (literally) when they were questioning the dozens of different answers being given to people who were understandably upset about whether or not they were going to get to their destinations that evening. It left me with kind of a bad taste for the company, but I still fly them.
Sorry to hear about your experience, but I'm glad you've decided to continue to fly with F9. Of course there are managers and what not out there who don't exactly have the best communication/customer service skills, but the good ones outweigh the bad ones from my expeirence. People like the manger you mentioned have no business working in the airline industry, period. Flight delays/cancellations are annoying for everyone involved. The trick from an airline employee's perspective is to keep a level head and stay calm. Easier said then done at times, but it can be done with patience.
CBERFlyer From United States, joined Mar 2005, 119 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 584 times:
I fly between Washington and Denver fairly often, and much prefer F9 over UA. Of course, I havta admit that I'm biased by the fact that F9 has three daily nonstops between DCA and DEN, versus the one daily nonstop UA has. I know that UA has numerous nonstops to DEN from IAD and BWI, but DCA is way (way!) more convenient to downtown DC than either IAD or BWI, due to the Metro subway station attached to the Terminal B/C building... but that is beside the point.
I find the level of service on F9 to be substantially higher that what UA currently offers. Extensive IFE, unusually comfortable seats, multiple beverage services (2-3 on each flight!), and generally tasty and good quality food. The FAs, and CSAs (at DEN only... DCA has been run by CO up until recently) have always been notably friendly and helpful, in my experience. All this at fares that are always competitive and usually a bit lower than UA's.
Now, I don't find UA to by any worse than any other legacy carrier I've flown, or even WN... but they are just average and unremarkable as compared to everyone else.
My partner has also started flying frequently between Washington and Denver for fed govt work, and has been choosing to fly F9 whenever possible over the regular federal contract carrier between DCA and DEN (AA!) whenever possible, for the same reasons as above. F9's liberal freq flyer program is also a plus.
CBERFlyer From United States, joined Mar 2005, 119 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 567 times:
Quoting Azstar (Reply 11): As for MSYtristar, I was a passenger on F9 flight which was delayed 5 hours due to a combination of bad weather and bad luck during last winter. The "manager" was at the gate telling people "you don't know what you're talking about" (literally) when they were questioning the dozens of different answers being given to people who were understandably upset about whether or not they were going to get to their destinations that evening. It left me with kind of a bad taste for the company, but I still fly them.
Azstar, my first thought is to whether or not you were at the Denver hub or another F9-manned station, or if you were at one of the stations that is manned by contract crew (usually CO staff, I believe). I do realize that it shouldn't make a difference one way or the other, but perhaps the "manager" in your situation was not actually an F9 employee. Did you ever contact F9 afterwards about your negative experience, and if so, what kind of response or follow-up did you receive?
UAcsOKC From United States, joined Dec 2004, 107 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 491 times:
Quoting Panaman (Reply 2): Ever wonder how when a flight cancels it is usually always weather?
Thats becuase it's usually the weather that causes the most problems. Maintenance usually just causes a delay, which varies due to severity or availability of parts. But when ORD is in bad shape and theres a lot of ATC flow control, theres nothing you can do. Flights often cancel in this situation to allow aircraft to be in position for the next day- thus relieving ATC and preventing ferry flights.
I love the rumble of a 727 takeoff in the morning!
TxAgKuwait From United States, joined Aug 1999, 1584 posts, RR: 50 Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 458 times:
>> My partner has also started flying frequently between Washington and Denver for fed govt work, and has been choosing to fly F9 whenever possible over the regular federal contract carrier between DCA and DEN (AA!) whenever possible, for the same reasons as above. F9's liberal freq flyer program is also a plus. <<
As a federal govt guy, let me post this for your parnter's benefit:
----->Do I have to use the contract carrier? Won't any airline do?
Federal and military travelers on official business are required to use the contract carrier unless a specific exception applies. This required use is the incentive necessary to obtain airline participation in the city pair program and allows the airlines the business volume necessary to offer discounted rates. Choosing not to use the contract carrier because of personal preference, frequent flyer clubs, etc., is a violation of the contract. <-------
There are significant penalties if and when an audit of folks' travel habits comes around.....and it is much worse then the "significant penalty for earlt withdrawal" on a CD down at the Savings & Loan or Credit Union.
Trust me on this. I know. I would rather eat broken light bulbs than fly on a carrier other than WN. But I do. Because I'm supposed to. However, riding the contract carriers makes me appreciate it that much more when I take a trip where WN is the contract carrier.
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