Lazyshaun From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 545 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3469 times:
when I was 10 I flew from Gatwick to Bali (refueled at Bangkok), and then onto Melbourne. I can't remember if it was a 742 or 743. I'm 16 now, so you might know if they had -300s then. Anyway, when I got back, I got into aviation, and, of course, my fav airline was Garuda. Then I heard they didn't fly to LGW any more. Not too long after that I heard they didn't fly to AMS any more (I don't if they dropped any other routes in Europe?).
So what I would like to know is: What happened to Garuda and their European routes?
I know they don't have as many 747s any more, but maybe an a330 could make a few stops?
Any help would be apreciated.
Cornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 55 Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3430 times:
Garuda suffered badly during the Asian economic crisis of the late 90s and nearly ended up grounded like PAL did.
However they increasingly cut back a large amount of their long haul services including their London service altogether a few years back. I think they also cut their FRA and AMS services soon after too.
Now they have an agreement with Malaysian Airlines to code share on their services to Europe.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6426 posts, RR: 74 Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3347 times:
They cut Europe after bizarrely retiring the 742s and not the Dc10s...
The 98 crisis made GA swallowed the bitter pill, the management was changed and a massive turnaround plan was made... However the board of directors of the last 2 years until last month really almost flew GA into the ground again. Most of the 98-03 team is now back in charge of GA and hope it'll mean a more coherent plan for GA which will eventually make GA return to Europe flying it's own metal.
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3342 times:
As stated above, Garuda went through a very difficult financial period after the Asian meltdown and had no choice but to cut its fleet - Garuda ended up with a rather limited longhaul fleet and cut European services. The logic was that the yeilds on the long European flights were not very good and were thus losing money.
A couple of other things went against Garuda in the European market - they do not have a "premium reputation" and could not attract higher-fare customers, and, they had a reputation for their lengthy multi-stop flights which were time consuming and incovenient. SQ and MH seems to have filled the void, transporting many pax between Europe and Indonesia via their respective hubs.
Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6426 posts, RR: 74 Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3229 times:
Well, they're still sitting there in CGK AFAIK... 1 aircraft was overdue in Check and another had "new landing gear"
They retired the aircraft before realizing they had no buyers or suitable replacements. A lot of the crew and the financial community questioned "the reasoning", which was one of the first actions the 2003 - 2005 board took... So they started on the wrong foot. I think only 1 or 2 were sold and the other 2 is being scrapped now. If I remember correctly the sole reason for retiring them was "they no longer qualify for Hajj flights so we retired them" (quote from a former director poking fun at that board's decision).
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4450 posts, RR: 73 Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3065 times:
Garuda's Europe flights suffered sustained losses because the offerings as a whole were not competitive. In the end Garuda operated a 4-weekly CGK-SIN-AMS service, and before the stations were closed a thrice weekly service on both DPS-BKK-LGW and DPS-SIN-FRA. In the year 2001, Garuda briefly operated a 6 weekly CGK-FRA-LGW run.
The flights suffered losses because Garuda was never able to attract decent yields on the route. With less than daily flights, there was no way of competing against KLM and Lufthansa, which both offer daily flights into Jakarta, let alone against the likes of SQ and MH, with multiple flights each into major European and Indonesian cities, via smooth connections at SIN and KUL.
If and when Garuda returns to Europe, it should be with a daily frequency to a single destination with an interline agreement in place between that point and other cities in Europe. I believe the best choice for Garuda would be to restart Amsterdam as a daily operation, and from there offer codeshare or interline flights with KLM throughout Europe and wit Northwest to the US. Amsterdam offers the additional advantage of at least some O&D traffic because of traditional ties between Indonesia and its former colonial master.
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4450 posts, RR: 73 Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2625 times:
Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 8): Is there a reason why didn't GA go daily? Short of aircraft? Overwhelming losses?
Garuda could have operated a daily flight to a single European destination with the aircraft available, but never took the effort to negotiate interline or prorate agreements with other airlines to support the flight from its European gateway. Again, a daily flight into AMS would be the obvious choice, and an interline or even codeshare agreement to various points in Europe with KLM shouldn't be too hard to negotiate.
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4450 posts, RR: 73 Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2584 times:
Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 11): Probably the current MH/GA interline/codeshare agreement is the most comprehensive GA has ever done...
Agreed, but unfortunately GA is not benefiting very much from the partnership with MH. To the contrary, GA has been suffering from a reduced number of passengers flying on its own metal between CGK and KUL. Passengers apparently prefer MH's comfortable A332/333 to Garuda's B734 on the route. As a result, Garuda was recently forced to discontinue 3 of ten weekly flights between CGK and KUL. The imminent closure of the DPS-KUL route has the same reason.
The beyond-KUL codeshared flights to LHR, MAN, CDG and FRA haven't been a great success. True, there is very little risk for Garuda, as the airline is not obliged to sell the seats and unsold seats are returned to MH, but what's the point of offering the codeshare if hardly anyone is using it? And why would anyone use it? Fares of GA are often higher than those of MH for exactly the same flights. And Garuda is too stingy to hand out frequent flyer points for passengers using the GA codeshare. Last, but not least, there's the prominent abscence of AMS, likely the route which generates the highest traffic numbers to and from Indonesia, in the codeshare agreement.
So, when I am talking about a true return to Europe for Garuda, I believe it should be via a daily, Garuda-operated CGK-AMS flight, with a comprehensive interline or codeshare agreement with KL at AMS, giving GA access to KL's vast European network. Garuda should focus on Indonesia-Europe traffic while marketing this flight, and refrain from offering all kinds of rock bottom fares to and from destinations like SYD and AKL, as such fares inevitably bring the yields down. The Indonesia-Europe market is large enough for Garuda to be able to sustain a daily AMS-flight, provided through fares to various points are available. Garuda will of course have to compete with the likes of EK and QR at CGK, but it has the advantage of being able to draw on a vast domestic network to attract passengers from all over the archipelago.