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777-300ER In-Service Dispatch 99.2%  
User currently offlineUAL747-600 From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 592 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7898 times:

Boeing is saying that the 777-300ER has 99.2% dispatch rate in the first year of service. Do anybody have any numbers on A340-600 and A340-500, first year and current???

UAL747-600

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10804 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7832 times:

I don't know, but it seems like it is with cars and women: The uglier, the more reliable.

User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9653 posts, RR: 68
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7777 times:
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well then I would suspect the A380 would be achieving a 100% dispatch rate straight out of the box.

User currently offlineMarBergi From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7735 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 2):
well then I would suspect the A380 would be achieving a 100% dispatch rate straight out of the box

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7668 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 2):
well then I would suspect the A380 would be achieving a 100% dispatch rate straight out of the box.

Nah, I'd say a 102% dispatch rate.  Smile



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3682 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7592 times:

You have to compare the 777 with a Twinjet.
SriLankan says to have a reliability of 99,06% with their A330.

http://www.srilankan.aero/aboutus_news/news95_airbus.shtml


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9653 posts, RR: 68
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7550 times:
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I think we are talking about a whole fleet, not 4 aircraft.

Does anyone know what the numbers were for the A330 in it's first year of revenue service?


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 857 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7537 times:

99,06 for A330? Way to go!!

Micke  cool 



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7527 times:

99.2% seems a little low, especially for a "mature" series since the 300ER is based on an existing model.

Wasn't Boeing touting a 99.8% dispatch reliability on the original 777 when it went into service a decade ago?



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3574 posts, RR: 67
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7506 times:

Quoting UAL747-600 (Thread starter):
Boeing is saying that the 777-300ER has 99.2% dispatch rate in the first year of service. Do anybody have any numbers on A340-600 and A340-500, first year and current???

According to the last week's Flight article, A345/6 operators are reporting dispatch reliability below 98%. Airbus' goal is to get it up to 98.5%. If they achieve that goal it means the A345/6 takes a delay twice as often as the 773ER. At the current rate, the A345/6 is delayed three times as often.

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 5):
You have to compare the 777 with a Twinjet.

I don't quite follow your logic. The A330 does not have the same payload/range characteristics as the 773ER. In the Airbus product line, only the A346 competes with the 773ER.

Or are you implying that 4 Engines 4 Long Range is incorrect?



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9653 posts, RR: 68
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7473 times:
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Excellent points OAG, thank you for sharing them.

Welcome to my RR list.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7471 times:

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 5):
You have to compare the 777 with a Twinjet.

Why is that? If a comparison between twins and quads shows that twins have a substantially higher dispatch rate, as intuition would suggest, then such a comparison would be very useful.


User currently offlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3574 posts, RR: 67
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7469 times:

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 7):
99,06 for A330? Way to go!!

Still below the 777 fleet average of 99.3%

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 8):
99.2% seems a little low, especially for a "mature" series since the 300ER is based on an existing model.

Wasn't Boeing touting a 99.8% dispatch reliability on the original 777 when it went into service a decade ago?

Nope, Boeing never claimed the 777 would be at 99.8%. The 99.3% 777 Fleet Average is the target that was talked about ten years ago and is still a best in class for a fleet number.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineN60659 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 654 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7459 times:

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 8):
99.2% seems a little low, especially for a "mature" series since the 300ER is based on an existing model.

Wasn't Boeing touting a 99.8% dispatch reliability on the original 777 when it went into service a decade ago?

The following excerpt from Boeing's press release (while not completely answering your question) somewhat glosses over your question. Please take it FWIW.
"The technologically advanced 777-300ER flew more than 32,000 hours during its first year, amassing a 99.2 percent average schedule reliability rate that surpasses previous 777 model introductions and is in line with the 99.3 percent overall rate for the 777 family."

-N60659

[Edit: Looks like OldAeroGuy got to your question as I was typing up my response. Sorry for the duplicaion]

[Edited 2005-05-12 18:29:54]

[Edited 2005-05-12 18:30:20]


Nec Dextrorsum Nec Sinistrorsum
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7455 times:

Quoting Na (Reply 1):
The uglier, the more reliable.

Were that the case, the A345 would have a perfect D.R. for its entire service life  Yeah sure

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 5):
You have to compare the 777 with a Twinjet.

...why?

True that quads have a higher probability of engine failure, but it's not like carriers consider (which, in the end, is what really matters) that to be an excuse for shortfalls, after they've been pitched quads (e.g., A346s) that Airbus claimed to have twinjet-level D.R.


User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7195 times:

How many scheduled departures do the statistics represent ? Approximately 4000 ? Does anyone have an exact number ? Thanks


The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlineAirbusCanada From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6798 times:

ON the 346/345
the fuel management software had some glitches and the galleys had some Both of those systems were breand new. Other than than 346/345 did not have any major problems. I guess 773ER did not have any software glitchs thus the higher DR numbers.


User currently offlineDalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6684 times:

The 345/346 have had many issues with the Trent 500s as well resulting in a relatively high degree of IFSDs and engine removals. Not one IFSD or engine removal for the 773ER in it's 1st year. Fuel consumption is still an issue with some airlines flying 345/346. LH was quoted in the recent FI article as saying there were some fuel consumption abnormalities that appeared to be fleet wide on some of the routes.
It's blindingly obvious that the 772LR/773ER are about to dominate this sector. The next year or 2 should confirm that.


User currently offlineAbbs380 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5828 times:

Several places in this thread where reliability is mentioned the "mature" qualifier is used. I think A300/310 series is about as "mature" as you can get. Yet there is one large freight operator who is about to comitt to a replacement of the exsisting fuel quantity indicating system on the entire fleet, with a new system (manufactured by a third party vendor) including all probes and wiring. Because system reliability is so poor, and dispatch reliability is affected.

User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2333 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5575 times:

Sebolino ye your right, but again you could question the Airbus decision to do long haul planes with 4 engines, instead of 2...
This was a major reason for doing the new lines with 2 engines only...
A340 family has 4 engines, and that means lower dispatch rates, either way a higher dispatch rate, is better for the airline.

And em how dare anyone say the 777 is ugly  Smile
Boaz...



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12269 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5256 times:
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Quoting Na (Reply 1):
The uglier, the more reliable.

A380 will also have basically the same dispatch rate also then?


User currently offlineIsuA380B777 From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5207 times:

Quoting Windshear (Reply 19):
And em how dare anyone say the 777 is ugly

exactly !! no one can say lovely 777 is ugly


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6958 posts, RR: 63
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5077 times:

Quoting Windshear (Reply 19):
And em how dare anyone say the 777 is ugly

OK, not ugly as such. What about 'bland'?


User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3682 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5052 times:

Quoting Windshear (Reply 19):
Sebolino ye your right, but again you could question the Airbus decision to do long haul planes with 4 engines, instead of 2...

This is another story.
The point, if I understand well, is to be more relaxed with engines power, and to be ETOPS free. Of course it has a cost.


User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3682 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5025 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 14):
Quoting Sebolino (Reply 5):
You have to compare the 777 with a Twinjet.

...why?

Because the "unreliabilities" of all engines are added, and each engine decreases a bit the reliability of the plane.

[Edited 2005-05-13 14:32:44]

25 OldAeroGuy : Fair enough, but I doubt that you'll find engines at the top of the list for what causes delays on either the A345/6 or the 773ER. It's usually more
26 Post contains links Sebolino : According to http://www.aeroweb-fr.net/dossiers/dossier,29,airbus-a340-300.php , the A340 since 1999 have been improved, and have now at Cathay Pacifi
27 Sebolino : I found this on the web: Stricter maintenance helped the 777 achieve a dispatch reliability of 98.1% within a year of its introduction to service, acc
28 ContnlEliteCMH : Nonsense. The stockholders, customer service reps, accounts, pilots, nor anybody else, give any dispatch problem a pass because an aircraft has four
29 Dhefty : Correct. Airbus does not have a long-range high-capacity twin. The A340-500/600 is dying. The A340-200/300 are already dead. Only a few A340's will b
30 OldAeroGuy : No, the current 777 Fleet is 99.3% and the 777-300ER is a shade under that at 99.2%. The remarkable feat is to have a new airplane at the mature flee
31 ConcordeBoy : ....more along the lines of them not having sufficient engines for the MTOWs specified by the A343 family during the design phase. You've managed to
32 PlaneSmart : The devil is in the detail. For example, i presume the statutory and company discretionary go/no go requirements differ for short, medium and long dur
33 OldAeroGuy : Try Air France. Although the routes aren't exactly the same, as the 777 usually flies futher, but utilization is about equal and you can probably ass
34 N60659 : If you are talking about the 773ER and A346, that is going to be rather limited in scope given that there are only two airlines (EK and EY) that have
35 N1120A : Not likely because the A340 does not have a very good payload/weight ratio at all. You actually need thrust in order to lift things.
36 RedFlyer : Not that I am disputing what you're claiming, but is this a generally accepted assessment? I mean, this is the first I've heard of it and I'm surpris
37 Zvezda : The A340-500 is probably about as dead as the B767. Airbus can sell more only for political reasons, not for business reasons because the B777-200LR
38 PlaneSmart : OAG 'Try Air France. Although the routes aren't exactly the same, as the 777 usually flies futher, but utilization is about equal and you can probably
39 OldAeroGuy : Yes, their 777's consist of -200ERs and -300ERs. Both of these airplanes have greater range capability than the A343 and AF uses it. Average flight l
40 PlaneSmart : Thanks OAG. If the 777 flies further & utilisation is about equal (your reply 33), then the A34 presumably operate more cycles. More cycles, more depa
41 OldAeroGuy : On the other hand, more takeoffs and landings mean opportunity to fix a problem between cycles. You can argue it both ways and there isn't a conclusi
42 Atmx2000 : Hmm, .985 is fairly close to .993 squared = .986, which is what you would expect if 99.3% reliability was dependent solely by the likelihood of a sin
43 Dhefty : Yes. I've said, the add-on market is their only hope. The A340-600 had a two-year head start, but is now lagging by a wide margin. The B777-300ER wil
44 Zvezda : A twin with the MTOW of the A380 WhaleJet would need at least 155K lbs of thrust per engine. When the WhaleJet was developed, the development cost of
45 NorCal : Does the GE-90 have the potential to grow to 155K lbs? Or are we looking at an entirely new engine?
46 Zvezda : Reworking the GE-90 to a certified thrust of 155K lbs would require a larger fan and probably some major changes to the compressor. I don't think it
47 Sebolino : You didn't say anything related to my answer, you just aked "why ?" !! You managed to lose an occasion to "keep quiet" and remain civil.
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