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Onur Also Banned In Germany?  
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4477 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4314 times:

The Dutch TV reports that Onur air has not only lost its traffic rights in The Netherlands but also in Germany. Can anyone confirm this?

64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2005 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4269 times:

That's correct. According to an article in the Handelsblatt:
(in German)
http://www.handelsblatt.com/pshb/fn/...!200012,200040,898695/SH/0/depot/0


User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2005 posts, RR: 16
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4258 times:

The ministry of transportation revoked the traffic rights due to safety reasons. No further comment was made.
There is nothing said if it's temporarily or permanent and if they have time - as in the Netherlands - to prove that they are save.
As far as I understand that, no more Onur Air flights are allowed to Germany with immediate effect.


User currently offlineDeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4256 times:

Im surprised they still have rights to land in ZRH. They come several times a day with A300 and A321.


~DeltaWings



Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2005 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4248 times:

I guess it's a matter of time.....and the end of Onur.

User currently offlineJmc757 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2000, 1301 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4186 times:

Wonder if the British authorities are paying attention to this at all. Onur are down to operate a few flights from the Uk this summer...

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9735 posts, RR: 31
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4152 times:

Surprisingly quick reaction by the authorities here. By coincidence, that topic came up just on Monday in a short article saying that EU countries should cooperate better.

It's hard to believe that Onur will survice this since there is pressure now on the rest of the EU to follow suit.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4139 times:

Quoting Jmc757 (Reply 5):
Wonder if the British authorities are paying attention to this at all. Onur are down to operate a few flights from the Uk this summer...

I think Onur will be the prime football charter airline if the Italian and British don't ban them before the Champions League Final in Istanbul (they have plenty of excess capacity nowadays)


User currently offlineFuturestar68 From Austria, joined May 2004, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4128 times:

Their Airbusses are regular visitors in Austria as well, even myself flew with them to AYT and back... Now it comes back to my mind... Our flight AYT-VIE was more than 7 hours delayed, nobody told us why... Shortly after take off, the captain appologized for the delay and told us, that the plane was grounded in Istanbul due to technical problems... I don't like saying things like that, but I think it's only a matter of time until the first Onur Air-plane will crash...  worried 

User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1938 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4026 times:

This can be a final blow for Onur Air. Onur currently operates around 300 flights in Europe per week, with the majority of them to German destinations.

Cheers!



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7808 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4024 times:

What about the MD88 mishap at Groningen?.

User currently offlineEmrecan From Turkey, joined Feb 2000, 945 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3839 times:

Onur Air is one of the best Airbus user in the world.

The decisions of the Dutch's and German's are not fair!!!!

It is a bullshit...


User currently offlineJorge1812 From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 3149 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3815 times:

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 11):
Onur Air is one of the best Airbus user in the world.

The decisions of the Dutch's and German's are not fair!!!!

It is a bullshit...

Because they use one of the oldest A-300 around here. Don't think that they're unsafe (especially the newer A-321's) but the old A-300's might be questionable.
It's better to act now before a chrash will happen than after many lost their life.

What will happen to the tourists going back from Turkey to the home-destinations?
Would'nt be good to send more unsafer planes than the ones which were banned from Germany and the Netherlands.

Summarizing I would say this will be the end of OHY, because the big media coverage will influence the customers more than a re-allowance for OHY to enter Germany.

Georg.


User currently offlineLazyshaun From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 549 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3804 times:

I think soon the only place they won't be banned from is Turkey!!
(or are they banned from there too???) Big grin

-lazyshaun-



I came. I saw. I conquered
User currently offlineEmrecan From Turkey, joined Feb 2000, 945 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3799 times:

ooo come on georg..


then stop all the flights made by A300s , 747-100s 747-200s 727s DC-9s
DC-10s........


it is really a mysterious decision.. I think someone is acting a game.

I don't know..

I hope Onur will fly more.....


User currently offlineTs-ior From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3492 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3803 times:

That announces the shut down of Onur Air, a great name in the Turkish aviation scene anyway !!! Aircrafts will be rushed on by new start-ups...

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9735 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3788 times:

It is big in the media meanwhile. The ban is indefinitely and it will be hard to believe to see them back. The German LBA (CAB) is following their Dutch colleagues and take the Dutch decision from Tuesday as a base for their decision.

It is said that the airline had enough warnings and if they can't get their act together or don't have the money to operate properly, than that's it.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4696 posts, RR: 42
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3782 times:

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 11):
Onur Air is one of the best Airbus user in the world.

The decisions of the Dutch's and German's are not fair!!!!

It is a bullshit...

You know what? I kind of trust the decision of the European aviation authorities more than your statement, which is influenced by national pride...



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineEmrecan From Turkey, joined Feb 2000, 945 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3769 times:

I found the real reason why Onur is stopped...


1 million of pax will fly between Turkey and Netherlands and 900.000 pax will be carried by Turkish companies. (400.000 pax by ONUR AIR)

I am sure netherland authorities want their companies to carry more pax so that they stopped Onur Air..

who knows may be they will also not let Turkish Airlines to fly to Netherlands anymore....


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3750 times:

I think the German authoritis are quick to act over Turkish charter airlines with questionable safety standards after that Birgenair 757 that crashed while flying a full load of german holidaymakers home on a charter flight from the Dominican Republic.

However, I think Onur is a good airline with good safety standards and also provides a high quality service for a foreign charter carrier.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9735 posts, RR: 31
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3724 times:

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 18):
I found the real reason why Onur is stopped...


1 million of pax will fly between Turkey and Netherlands and 900.000 pax will be carried by Turkish companies. (400.000 pax by ONUR AIR)

I am sure netherland authorities want their companies to carry more pax so that they stopped Onur Air..

who knows may be they will also not let Turkish Airlines to fly to Netherlands anymore....

Well, you spoke about BS before.

If ONUR thinks that's the way it has been done they have the right to challenge the decision in the courts and if there was any bias they even have the right to sue for compensation.

That is because the Netherlands and Germany are states under the rule of law, which, by the way, is a mandatory requirement to join the EU. Takes some changes in peoples minds as well.......



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineBahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1834 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3685 times:

Emrecan,
We have your opinion against a civil aviation .. wait two civil aviation authorities. Guess which one we are going to believe more? Unfortunatelly conspiracy theories like yours are very popular in Turkey these days. On top of that it's not easy to see the big picture.

Look at all the accidents/incidences that took place in last 2 years. Visit some online websites where people talk about their flight experiences (www.carsurvey.com comes to mind) and see what they say about the airline.

With all those runway run offs, technical problems, modus operandi they do not sound like a well run airline to me.

Despite the stars and stripes that you see in my profile (because that's where I live) I happen to be Turk as well. Contrary to you I am not a victim of my foolish nationalistic pride.

I am expecting Fly Air to follow the same destiny too.

Take care..

BAHADIR



Earthbound misfit I
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3656 times:

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 11):
Onur Air is one of the best Airbus user in the world.

They operate some 20 Airbus aircraft, not an outstanding number.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 11):
The decisions of the Dutch's and German's are not fair!!!!

How do you know? They certainly have a reason to ban them. Germany and the Netherlands are no banana republics where authorities do what they want.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 11):
It is a bullshit...

The real BS would be a crash as it happened with that crappy Birgenair B757s some years ago.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 14):
then stop all the flights made by A300s , 747-100s 747-200s 727s DC-9s
DC-10s........

Why? If they are well maintained they are just fine.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 14):
it is really a mysterious decision.. I think someone is acting a game.

Certainly not.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 18):

1 million of pax will fly between Turkey and Netherlands and 900.000 pax will be carried by Turkish companies. (400.000 pax by ONUR AIR)

And then tell me why they haven't banned all the other Turkish operators? There are quite many.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 18):
who knows may be they will also not let Turkish Airlines to fly to Netherlands anymore....

I doubt that.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
However, I think Onur is a good airline with good safety standards and also provides a high quality service for a foreign charter carrier.

Can we as passengers really judge what's going on?



Regards
Udo


User currently offlineEmrecan From Turkey, joined Feb 2000, 945 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3619 times:

I am sorry but you can believe whatever you want..

Numbers are very clear...

It is an economic decision not a safety decision..

If you cannot see this it is your problem..


by the way UDO:Can we as passengers really judge what's going on?


if you ask this question, why did you try to answer me sentence by sentence?

are you an authority??


User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3599 times:

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 23):

It is an economic decision not a safety decision..

I don't see any Dutch or German airline struggling due to the threatening force of Onur Air. And even if, the authorities would not act that way.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 23):
If you cannot see this it is your problem..

If you believe what you want to believe, it's your problem.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 23):
by the way UDO:Can we as passengers really judge what's going on?

I meant we cannot judge the aircraft's technical condition when we are on board. The safety task forces can.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 23):
are you an authority??

No, but I trust the Luftfahrtbundesamt.


Regards
Udo


25 Emrecan : Udo... if it is my problem why you are jumping very quickly to answer?????
26 Pilot kaz : You have a source? Link or anything? Good for Onur Air Flying 400,000 pax on poorly maintained aircraft... Turkish seem to be able to keep there airc
27 Post contains images Emrecan : Pilot kaz.. We also can see your comments how great they are
28 Udo : Probably because you asked me several questions last time? Regards Udo
29 Pilot kaz : Thats the whole point in posting....... But im not the one going against 2 FAA's here..........
30 Emrecan : before the last time???
31 Allessandro : I am working in aviation industry and frankly know a little more about aicraft systems than most others. I do not agree with the reasons for revoking
32 Post contains images TriStar500 : Emrecan, I am very glad for the sake of aviation safety that you are not working in a regulatory agency, because your sickening national bias would pr
33 Emrecan : TriStar500 please read what Alessandro wrote....... please understand what I try to say I want to say Onur Air is safe but because of economic reasons
34 Orion737 : I would not have any reservations about flying Onur Air. The UK CAA seem happy with them and I think they are a good charter carrier. I think the Germ
35 Udo : If Onur Air were safe, the German authority (Luftfahrtbundesamt) wouldn't ban them. They have excellent task forces checking dozens of aircraft every
36 Post contains links Unique : Today, Switzerland has also banned Onur Air from landing on its territory! The link for the media release (in german or french only): http://www.aviat
37 Emrecan : 400.000 pax.. is it a bad number of pax for an airline??? please udo tell me, one month ago Onur was safe and in 1 month it became unsafe? is it possi
38 Udo : But there's no reason for other airlines to be scared of Onur Air. Well, even one day before a crash an airliner can still be safe... And probably On
39 FraT : Emrecan, if you are posting your opinion here, then you have to live with the comments! You were asked before but couldn't answer. If the decision was
40 FinnWings : Emrecan, With all respect, but you are definitely wrong with this issue. We are now speaking of EU countries and not of any Banana countries ruled by
41 Goldcrest : I once had the plasure of working with Onur Air, winter 2000. I operated one round trip on TC-ONK. Company regulations and practices were quite differ
42 OHLHD : So it seems as it is only a matter of time until they will be banned through out Europe.
43 Vfw614 : That's hilarious. Let's face it: Every time a Turkish airline is shut down/goes bancrupt/disappears, at least two new ones pop up and take over the b
44 RJ100 : There were two Onur Air flights to/from BSL today (both with the A-321). Both flights operated normally. I think Switzerland overreacts a bit if they
45 OD720 : Yesterday I saw an Onur Air A300 taking off from BEY at around 5 pm. I don't know what kind of flight it was since it wasn't in the schedule. Could it
46 HT : If OHY is in a position to rectify its problems, fine ! Let them do their "homework", let it get inspected by the relevant authorities and they decide
47 Pilotaydin : by the way, the Birgenair accident happened because there was no comparator onboard the 757 a/c. This prompted the equipment to feed from only one pil
48 FraT : German TV news are reporting that Turkish authorities do not give landing permits to the replacement flights. That is very cheap and puts Turkey and i
49 FinnWings : This is definitely difficult situation for all passengers who have booked flights on Onur Air... I hope the airline will get its problems sorted out s
50 Beaucaire : I think they should ban Onur Air's flights operated with old replacement- aircraft but allow them to continue their operation of A 320's. Nobody denie
51 FraT : It seems that Turkey and Turkish people are bringing up this tie to the political situation. I agree with you that if there was a problem with a cert
52 Lijnden : It is all mass-hysteria; Do you really think that the boys upfront will fly with a plane that is falling apart? Would you? Anyway, aren't most acciden
53 Columba : A new aircraft can be not maintained very well. Actually I would prefer being on a Northwest DC 10 or DC 9 over an "third-world" A320.
54 LJ : The rumour is that Onur didn't mind filling in the correct papers (no manual loadsheets available etc.) Moreover the Turkish CAA issued a warning aga
55 Bennett123 : Emrecan I think that we all understand what you are saying, we just don't agree. That may be the way that things are done in Turkey, but personally I
56 Sabena332 : For everyone who can receive German TV: I just saw in a preview that the RTL Nachtjournal will have a report about the Onur Air ban as their main topi
57 Jorge1812 : Will watch it, currently watching Freitag Nacht News...very funny!!! N-TV reported a half hour ago that Turkey banned all German airlines which wante
58 Avianca : isn´t Turkey in the JAA?
59 Post contains links HT : Some answers can be found in a parallel thread with scope of The Netherlands: Onur Banned In The Netherlands (by IL76 May 12 2005 in Civil Aviation)
60 Post contains links Avianca : just found my owen answer, yes they are. http://www.jaa.nl/links/links.html
61 Avianca : thank you Patrick! just saw the report, but really with no new and usfull information.
62 Sabena332 : I agree, the report was rather lame. Patrick
63 Chiguire : By reading all this I am getting the impression that this was a decision like: "Das Fass ist voll". Having once worked for a Onur Air charterer I can
64 Avianca : totally agree, I think they had some problems with the paperwork, and the JAA and LBA is very strickt with this. But it says nothing about the real s
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