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Ex-Continental Boss Slams A380  
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4282 posts, RR: 20
Posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17416 times:

Ex-Continental boss slams A380
By Kathie O'Donnell, MarketWatch

Last Update: 2:45 PM ET May 12, 2005

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Former Continental Airlines boss Gordon Bethune took aim Thursday at the 600-seat Airbus A380, saying the biggest passenger jet ever built has more to do with "engineers' testosterone" than giving passengers what they want.

"What's in it for you to wait in line with 600 other people to get on an airplane?," said Bethune, who retired as Continental's (CAL: news, chart, profile) chairman and chief executive officer at the end of last year.

Bethune, speaking at the Investment Company Institute 2005 general membership meeting in Washington, is also a former Boeing Co. executive and a pilot.

"What's in it for you to wait for your bag with 600 people? What's in it for you to wait in customs and immigration lines with 600 people?," he asked.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo...BD%2D4A1D%2D8173%2DD11F799AAFAD%7D

The All-Knowing and Eternally Benevolent Great Leader of the Most Wonderful Continental Airlines has displayed Wonderous Wisdom yet again, even during his retirement years.  



[Edited 2005-05-13 01:04:26]


Live life to the fullest.
166 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyabunch From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17383 times:

As a CO Platinum Elite, I already miss him. The subtle changes that have been made since his departure are not for the better....in my opinion.

Mike


User currently offlineFLYtoEGCC From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 947 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17326 times:

Quoting Avek00 (Thread starter):
"What's in it for you to wait for your bag with 600 people? What's in it for you to wait in customs and immigration lines with 600 people?," he asked

...hence the upgrading of infrastructure at airports that are expected to receive A380 services to ensure that this DOESN'T happen. The whole point of having double-decker airbridges is to prevent 600 people having to wait in the same queue. Admittedly this won't exist at every airport it flies to... but if Mr. Bethune would care to think back to the launch of the 747, I'm fairly sure people would have been making similar comments about that aircraft then.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, I suppose. What exactly the point of him saying this is, though, I don't know.



Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away...
User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2434 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17325 times:

Well, he's entitled to his opinion, others can choose to agree or not. I'd say the customs/immigration comment hits the mark. That was my thought as well when this aircraft was introduced. The flying public will eventually have the final say and it matters not what Gordo or I think.

User currently offlineLPLAspotter From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17317 times:

Quoting Avek00 (Thread starter):
The All-Knowing and Eternally Benevolent Great Leader of the Most Wonderful Continental Airlines has displayed Wonderous Wisdom yet again, even during his retirement years.

I like Continental, and I like Boeing, but calling him the all-knowing and eternally benevolent great leader is nauseating. He should concentrate on retirement and keep his opinions to himself.

LPLAspotter



Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17279 times:

Quoting Avek00 (Thread starter):
"What's in it for you to wait in line with 600 other people to get on an airplane?,"

He must not have flown JAL or ANA on a Japanese domestic 747!

Quoting Avek00 (Thread starter):
"What's in it for you to wait for your bag with 600 people?

Again, he must not have flown JAL or ANA on a Japanese domestic 747!

Quoting Avek00 (Thread starter):
What's in it for you to wait in customs and immigration lines with 600 people?,"

Finally, and Again, he must not have flown JAL or ANA on a Japanese domestic 747!

... He must have never arrived at Los Angeles, in the middle of the day when you have about 5 747's, 2 777's, and a few A340 unloading their pax!

Quoting Avek00 (Thread starter):
biggest passenger jet ever built has more to do with "engineers' testosterone" than giving passengers what they want

And Boeing is looking at building a Boeing 747-400ADV.. Why?


Regards - Kahala777


User currently offlineAirbus3801 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1089 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17223 times:

Quoting Avek00 (Thread starter):
The All-Knowing and Eternally Benevolent Great Leader of the Most Wonderful Continental Airlines has displayed Wonderous Wisdom yet again, even during his retirement years.

I look down upon your ignorance! Sure, CO is good (not great, their seats are cardboard), but yet is simply disregards any of Boeing's plan for a larger aircraft, and you still have the nerve to make your opinions known to us without reviewing the facts. No one can say anything about the A380 let alone the 787 until it enters service.


User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17179 times:

Quoting Avek00 (Thread starter):
"What's in it for you to wait for your bag with 600 people? What's in it for you to wait in customs and immigration lines with 600 people?," he asked.

I think I've waited for my bag in the baggage hall with rather more than 600 people before and I honestly don't recall my flight being served by an A380.


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17134 times:

I like Bethune. But he is a Boeing man and is not objective about Airbus. However it does not mean that his point his wrong.

According to Thyssen Krupp which makes boarding bridges, it will take 45 to enplane/deplane the A380 using today's facilities. For the last persons off, that is a long time between the time parking brake has been set to the time get off....let alone customs and immigration.

Today's facilities are built with the 747 in mind. The 777/340 are smaller and do not exacerbate the situation. However the 380 is a big step on pax/bag capacity. I think someone knowledgable in operations research (OR) could figure what kind of effects should be expected.

I have flown on domestic Japanese 747/777 flights on multiple occasions. There are no post arrival formalities and Japanese people travel with little luggage usually. (They have the big stuff delivered directly to their destination before leaving) Even sitting towards the back, it does not take terribly long to get on and get out of the airport. Never 45 minutes.


User currently offlineConcordeloss From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17087 times:

Quote:
I'd say the customs/immigration comment hits the mark

Not really. If you think about rush hour arrivals at BOS you have BA, LH, LX, AA, and DL, they all arrive within close proximity, which means a lot more than 600 people at customs.



"You're not as stupid as you look, or sound, or our best test indicates" Burns to Homer
User currently offlineGEnxPower From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17087 times:

I'm not sure how many of our American airport ground staff are going to be as efficient as our friends in Japan though. Having said that, we have yet to see A380 gets order from JAL or ANA.

A380 is not doubt a great airplane, and an awesome engineering achievement. The business aspect of it is still to be proven, and only time will really tell. Everyone's got their opinion, and my opinion is that A380 is going to be alright. Intelligent, knowledgable decision makers in SQ, EK, LH, QF, etc all seems to agree.

[Edited 2005-05-13 01:36:59]

[Edited 2005-05-13 01:37:52]

User currently offlineOzglobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2701 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 17083 times:

Bigoted horse manure!

I've queued in many airports of the world's great cities with many more than 600 people (try LHR T4 at 7am when all the Australian and Asian 744's arrive!!!!) or any of the US airports so sadly maladapted to international traffic.

i) Most A380 customers have announced 480-500 seats, not the 600 he is fond of quoting, and offer MORE space per passenger than all other aircraft.
ii) How much ex-Boeing exec "testosterone" was consumed in making this statement
iii) What was "in it" for Bethune to make these anti-A380 comments ($$$!).

Entirely predictible poppycock.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineSchipholjfk From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 16953 times:

Quoting FLYtoEGCC (Reply 2):
.hence the upgrading of infrastructure at airports that are expected to receive A380 services to ensure that this DOESN'T happen.

That's all nice... but it still DOES NOT change how fast or slow human beings work at immigartion and customs. An immigration officer is not going to work TWICE as fast when A380 arrives neither are any of the upgrades that I know of relate to expansion of immigration arrival halls. What you will now have is all the jazz of A380 and double decker airbridges, etc but the bottleneck will start as soon as you hit immigration and customs. Humans beings simply do not speed up the rate of their work especially when it is the SAME old stamping passports and checking luggage EVERYDAY... expect long waits no matter what everyone tells you. Remember how we were all going to have a gym and a flying swimming pool and an amazing bar inside A380s? And what are we getting? Same ole sardine can except with 550 of us packed in a metal tube.



The fun of flying... love it !!!
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 16936 times:

Quoting Ozglobal (Reply 12):
I've queued in many airports of the world's great cities with many more than 600 people (try LHR T4 at 7am when all the Australian and Asian 744's arrive!!!!) or any of the US airports so sadly maladapted to international traffic.

Yes Bethune is biased. That is established but the point remains. Make some of aforesaid Aussie and Asian 744 into A380 and add up to 150 people per flight those flights. Then the magnitude of the problem soon becomes clear.


User currently offlineSchipholjfk From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 16917 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 6):

He must not have flown JAL or ANA on a Japanese domestic 747!

There is a HUGE difference in flying 747 domestic as opposed to on an international route. Immigration and customs is the bottleneck that you don't have to deal with in domestic travel.



The fun of flying... love it !!!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 16893 times:

My friend Erin works for ICI, and was at the speech today. He said it was an amazing lecture.

N


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 16871 times:

Quoting Ozglobal (Reply 12):
or any of the US airports so sadly maladapted to international traffic.

Every US airport which I have come home through has spacious, convenient facilities for international flights....and the roof has held up very well thank you.


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 16833 times:

I've sat in the customs lines at LHR in T3 during the morning rush. Sitting in line with "600" people would have been wonderful! It seemed like thousands were waiting....

I think he is overstating the "waiting in line" issue.


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16780 times:

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 17):
There is a HUGE difference in flying 747 domestic as opposed to on an international route

What a pitiful response! You have to be joking, what a grasp at straws!

 banghead 

Boarding, Taxi, Takeoff, Flight, turbulence, Descent, Landing, Taxi, Deplane.... And so on! It is all the same thing!

 cloudnine 

The things that some of you come up with as excuses as to why planes, should or should not fly... Get Real!

 box 

The things that some of you come up with, like ... Ohh... I want to see airline B paint all their plane orange, and buy 200 777-300Ers, when the airline is flat broke... Get Real!

 boggled 

Gordo, is a sore Pro Boeing boy!

 hissyfit 

If the passengers dont want to wait in line... They can charter their own plane! But, then again, this is America, and everyone here thinks anything non American is funny or weird!

 conehead 

Regards - Kahala777


User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2701 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16780 times:

Quoting N79969 (Reply 19):
Quoting Ozglobal (Reply 12):
or any of the US airports so sadly maladapted to international traffic.

Every US airport which I have come home through has spacious, convenient facilities for international flights....and the roof has held up very well thank you.

i) I'm not French and am not offering CDG as a touchstone
ii) American airports are unique in not having an international transit zone, therefore requiring international transfer passengers to 'enter' the US via immigration and customs even if they are not stopping in the US, hence being subjected to 'the treatment'.
iii) I spent my childhood in Washinton DC and have since heard the once stately Dulles airport has become something of a 'basket case' in handling traffic volumes
iv) Ever tried transiting via the US. No, I didn't think so.

P.S.

Quote:
and the roof has held up very well thank you

You're welcome.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16719 times:

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 19):
iii) I spent my childhood in Washinton DC and have since heard the once stately Dulles airport has become something of a 'basket case' in handling traffic volumes

It is like a Horror film come to life!
 ghost 


Regards - Kahala777


User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16610 times:

Quoting Avek00 (Thread starter):
"What's in it for you to wait for your bag with 600 people? What's in it for you to wait in customs and immigration lines with 600 people?," he asked.

Then will I ask: What's in for you to wait for your bag with 580 people who just deboarded a Corsair Boeing 747? What's in for you to wait in customs and immigration lines with 580 people who just deboarded a Corsair Boeing 747?

See? His argument is completely pointless!

Patrick


User currently offlineJumbojet From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16584 times:

Quoting Avek00 (Thread starter):
the biggest passenger jet ever built has more to do with "engineers' testosterone" than giving passengers what they want.

Im my opnion, I couldnt agree more. How many airlines do you think are going to actually buy and fly the A380? I will garauntee you that it wont come anywhere close to the 747, or for that matter, any other airliner. The concept of the worlds biggest airliner is simply not going to catching fire. Is it an engineering marvel? YES!! Is it gonna sell like hotcakes? NOOO!!


User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1091 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16576 times:

Quoting Avek00 (Thread starter):
What's in it for you to wait for your bag with 600 people?

It's less expensive!


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16523 times:

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 22):
The concept of the worlds biggest airliner is simply not going to catching fire.

The same thing was said about the 707 and 747!

Regards - Kahala777


25 Nirvarma : I believe he meant the following: which I believe is generally true. IMO there is a market for the A380 however it is a niche A/C and therefore will
26 Jumbojet : True, but the airline industry was very different back in the 60's/70's. This engineering marvel of a plane isn't going to fill that many airliners p
27 PHXinterrupted : That remains to be seen.
28 Sabena332 : Maybe it is a niche aircraft for smaler airlines but definitely not for airlines like AF, LH, SQ, EK, etc. The 747 is too small for these airlines on
29 Post contains images KC135R : The reason is posturing, what do I mean? I predict Gordo isn't in retirement for long, I see him as the next CEO of Boeing. Of course I could be wron
30 Post contains images ER757 : Is that a "double your money back guarantee?" I don't pretend to know what the future of the A380 is and I'm guessing that you don't have a crystal b
31 Post contains links Sabena332 : Probably not but airlines can operate some (now) unrentable routes with the A380 profitable again because of the lower seat costs, see reply #7 of th
32 KC135R : Which may well be true, but A380900 seemed to be implying that it would be cheaper for the 600 people waiting in line, hence making it worthwhile - w
33 Post contains images GoCOgo : Did I miss something? When did he say a 580 seat 747 was a good thing? You just presume that because he is a Boeing guy, he must be pro 747 and 747AD
34 Thomasphoto60 : I'll 2nd that! Thomas
35 Sabena332 : Yes, absolutely! I flew on CO just last week and I have to say that it is (and became) a great airline thanks to him! The "Oh my God, 600 people on o
36 Singaporegirl : excuse my ignorance.... but i don't really know who this bethune bloke is. i understand that he was the ceo of continental airlines at one time. was c
37 EnviroTO : Those comments are just foolish. If two 777s pull up to the gate or one A380 pulls up to the gate the line ups will be the same. Most large airports h
38 Indy : As a person who has traveled international MANY times I can see the points. Alot of waiting areas are designed for 300 people. I don't know too many a
39 Post contains images Jumbojet : Your right, I dont have a crystal ball, though I wish I did sometimes. As for the garauntee, think of it along the same lines as when Mark Messier ga
40 Sabena332 : I agree, but there are many airports which modify their facilities because of the upcoming A380 operations. As EnviroTO wrote in reply #39, better on
41 RedFlyer : So what's your point? You and others in this thread make it sound as though we accept 747 wait lines (before or after a flight) so we should be willi
42 Sabena332 : See my posts above. Patrick
43 Lnglive1011yyz : I HIGHLY agree with your statement, however, if Boeing had built the 747 with the knowledge of "today's infrastructure is built around the DC-7, the
44 DarthRandall : Sarcasm, dude. I think Avek00 was taking a shot at him, as well he should.
45 Tsnamm : as an ex-Boeing exec., is this opinion any surprise at all?? Consider the source and bury it thats all...a real surprise would be if he liked it!!!
46 Lemurs : Eh, you don't have to agree with him, and he's probably wrong, but before you go disrespecting him remember he's one of the very few men in the indust
47 Indy : Assuming 3 pilots will be required for the A380 it would mean saving 1 pilot. 1 jet lease is better than 2 and flying 1 A380 probably uses a great de
48 Post contains images NIKV69 : I just love Gordo more and more! He is right. The 380 is going to cause a lot of logistical headaches and not be so pax friendly. I am glad he has spo
49 Mariner : Okay, so his opinion has been heard. Now what happens? Now what would you like anyone to do? cheers mariner
50 Lemurs : There is the obvious simplification factor the A380 has going for it: The two decks. Upper deck at one carousel, lower deck at another. It makes load
51 Post contains images Scbriml : Hmmm, an ex-Boeing exec who ran an airline that only ever bought Boeing planes. Yep, I doubt he's biased!
52 A380900 : That's the all point. This really is truly amazing. The all point of the A380 is economies of scale that brings lower cost per seat that bring lower
53 Avek00 : The difference is that Corsair runs almost exclusively off of O&D traffic - therefore, the ground processing times don't matter as much. However, air
54 Flybyguy : I would have to agree, Bethune is NOT an un-biased source of opinion. If Boeing had created a Super 747 he would have been all for it or said nothing
55 PlanesNTrains : So instead of spreading arrivals throughout the day, we'll concentrate them into a few REALLY BIG ones? How will that improve the immigration and cus
56 Singaporegirl : when did we order 772lr?
57 KC135R : We might be talking about two different things. I do not dispute the fact, that if all goes as planned, the A380 should deliver lower costs per seat.
58 A380900 : That's not what I meant. I quoted Bethune a little randomly just to make my point: Bethune says "600, what's in it for me?", this is preposterous. By
59 Thrust : I have to admit myself that I question the need for the A380. It is hard to imagine the 747 being too small for market transportation. I don't see the
60 Zeekiel : Thats incorrect. The A345 SIN-LAX/EWR services continue unabated. There hasn't been a firm interest in the 772LR (as in busy media hype) yet. We've g
61 Toulouse : Jumbojet, I won't write for the sake of writing, just see below quote from ER757, as he more or less states what I was planning on responding. Good t
62 Post contains images Mark_D. : Incredibly-slow newsday again -- almost nothing in the aviation universe hitting the wires so folks around here go to town with a few zany words from
63 Tavve : Well, he is an Ex-Continental boss... I think A380 will bring exactly what many passengers want: Cheap long range flights.
64 Gary2880 : He's a muppet, the only reason he does not like it is because its the A380 and not the B380 *shudder* pure jealousy
65 Post contains images Udo : No surprise at all. Gordon is an ex-Boeing guy and he is just pissed about spending his days in retirement. And the comments about the A380 are not ne
66 Filton216 : Isn't the best way of just opening 2 baggage belts? Also the thing is at LHR you do have more than 2 747's at one time so I dont think there will be
67 Post contains images Lehpron : A rant from a biased source; I wonder when people who do not spend much time outside their country of residence realize that they cannot know what the
68 JCS : What a BULLSHIT words from this Gordon Bethune. I would expect a more solid vision of kind of topmanager. I didn't read the thread, only what Gordon B
69 Zeekiel : You've got to admit, there's a fair few of them. A lot of them are on this forum. But for them it's like "we don't want to see it succeed" rather tha
70 Adria : How funny how a desperate old man is trying to put himself into the media. So it's true that the older you are more childish you get
71 Post contains images Leskova : That's probably why airlines such as SQ and LH have their hubs at airports that are actually suited for international connecting traffic: if I arrive
72 Art : Anyone going to argue that many passengers do not want cheap long range flights? From what I have read on a.net and elsewhere, many US airlines have
73 Gman94 : As is the case now most people wont even know that they will be flying an A380 when they book their flights, and when they do get stuck at immigration
74 Post contains images NIKV69 : WHAT?? Gordon Bethune is as close to GOD or a modern day aviation genius as you can find. Read the book "From worst to first"!! Udo! My buddy! Took y
75 Post contains images Udo : But he is biased and that's what a great CEO shouldn't be. Nice to meet you here again! I was late, but not too late. The arguments are old and the c
76 Sebolino : How surprising.
77 Avek00 : While there can be some fair debates as to customs/immigration procesing time changes, the bottom line is that a full A380 requires some 45 minutes t
78 Trent900 : How much of the public really know who he is. Are you just talking America here? I can't see a 'no-body' person changing anyones opinion. D.
79 N79969 : And I agree with you. I am sure London, Singapore, and undoubtedly Dubai will expand all facilities between the gates to the curb to get ready. Howev
80 Avek00 : A 40-50% jump in capacity from the 744 to the 388, depending on configurations.
81 Post contains images Udo : At any time, at any place? It seems you haven't read all the replies here. People seem to be shocked by the idea of a future A380 arrival at a termin
82 N79969 : Udo, Airbus marketed the A380s capability to use any facility that a 747-400 could use including parking and boarding bridges. That 45 minute figure f
83 Slider : If he had a former personal and professional relationship that he could have exploited with Airbus that would have provided CO with suitable A/C at t
84 Udo : Is that the only source we have? Future airport construction will include new bridges and some airports will certainly upgrade their facilities. The
85 Udo : There's nothing wrong with his efforts as CEO at CO. And I'm sure he chose exactly the aircraft which suited CO best. Being biased was no problem whi
86 Airzim : I guess that means you need to shut up too.
87 TrevD : The people boarding Corsair 747's with 580 people on board are doing so knowing they are cramming themselves in for the privelage of paying for very
88 N79969 : Udo, If Thyssen Krupp were misrepresenting the numbers to sell bridges, I think Airbus would say something to them about it. I tend to believe that fi
89 Udo : If you had read my posts a bit more carefully and hadn't taken my words out of context you would know what I meant. The ones who have serious authori
90 Vulindlela744 : One would think that poor ol' Gordon would understand about slot restrictions. Most airlines that will be operating the 380 are Asian carriers. It is
91 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Actually, I was simply responding to what someone else thought. It was implied that the A380 replacing perhaps two other departures would inherintly
92 Tockeyhockey : yes, but what happens when the same maylay of arrivals happens, and instead of three 747s spread out over a half an hour, you have three a380s, plus
93 Post contains images Udo : Gordon has never sent his aircraft to LHR, so he cannot know... Regards Udo
94 Avek00 : Locking onto target... 1. Many airlines that do not order a specific airplane will evaluate it nonetheless. Bethune almost certainly had an internal
95 Udo : That's not certain at all. Conti's largest type is the B777-200, seating 283 passengers. Plus where do they have slot contraints? And how many A380 o
96 Airzim : You better be careful, you are starting to look like a hypocrite. You are assuming that as CEO Gordon never looked at Airbus or the A380. You'd be wr
97 Jaysit : I've disembarked off of a fully laden 744 with 420 pax that arrived at the same time as 5 other fully laden 744s with over 350 pax at a dump of an air
98 Columba : I have read the thread but I have seen no reason to answer to it because it is pointless. I wonder why it even came to more then 85 replies. I think G
99 Post contains images Udo : Show me where and I would get concerned... I assume they never seriously evaluated the A380. B747 is another story. I would not deny that. Yes, they
100 Avek00 : Now you're just reaching - you're trying to change the standard from a "747 operator" to "large 744 operators". Any A380 that touches down in NYC, IA
101 Post contains images Udo : Publicity is what even old men enjoy at any time... Regards Udo
102 Art : Out of curiosity, how does Heathrow manage at the moment? I have often seen five or six sets of landing lights lined up late afternoon. At that rate
103 Udo : So you really think I would rate every single B747 operator as having an authority to judge A380 operations? Come on...you know well what I meant. Th
104 Daedaeg : Or they can bypass some of those slot restricted airports with longer ranged, fuel efficient, medium-sized aircraft like the 787/A350. I believe many
105 Avek00 : You made "747 operation" the necessary condition for "commenting" about the A380, not "large 744 operator". Your assertion would have been credible h
106 Flybyguy : SQ canceled their options for the a340-500, meaning that they are dissatisfied with the Airbus jet. But then again, I could be taking that action the
107 Post contains images Udo : Fine, I said "B747 operator". What a big deal - but from the context it should have been clear what I meant. Or do you really think I would rate Kabo
108 Udo : But they haven't dumped the aircraft yet as you suggested earlier. I assume they don't see a need for further expansion into ultra longrange markets.
109 BlueSky1976 : Gordon Bethune is probably the equivalent of John Leahy on this side of the pond. It's hard to expect any objective comment from either guy.
110 Airzim : Are you saying that if Boeing had built at A380 equivalent Gordon would have done an extensive analysis (that you say they haven't done in today's en
111 Udo : No, he wouldn't have done the extensive analysis either - but he wouldn't spread negative comments about the aircraft just because his airline does n
112 Airzim : Udo, Would you criticize him then for not being able to make a credible argument since he didn't do an extensive analysis?
113 Scbriml : I think you'll find they let the options expire, which is a totally different kettle of fish. They have 5 A345s to cover their 2 ULR routes (2 planes
114 Udo : Fact is - with or without close analysis by CO - several of the world's most respected and successful have placed orders for the A380. They have decl
115 Nsfguy : I can only see the 380 being the human dignity and comfort grinder it really is. This BARN will be a 900-1000 penny pincher tour bus for the pensioner
116 Glideslope : Gordo has hit it right on the mark. He is not the only one with this view. I hate to say it, but the 380 is looking more like the Concorde every week.
117 B707Stu : Gordo is no fool. Don't forget his big legacy to this world is as an airline executive, not a boeing executive. Because of that he speaks from a broad
118 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : So if there is no proof he evaluated it, then you don't believe it. But even though there is no PROOF, you KNOW he is acting out of jealousy and bias
119 OldAeroGuy : How can you possibly know that? How do you know that this isn't his indepedent conclusion based on what he thinks is best for the majority of airline
120 Galapagapop : 600 per plane its not like 7 airlines will combine into one flight. If all those airlines used A380's for those international flights it would be hor
121 OO-AOG : Having 600 pax on one aircraft instead of 2x300 on two different aircrafts does save time and manpower, not to speak of runway congestions and the res
122 Art : Isn't Mr Bethune the person who ordered 10 787's two days before leaving the company, much to the surprise of the aviation press who did not consider
123 NW727251ADV : Personally, I am so tired of hearing Airbus fanatics using the word "JEALOUS" in regards to Boeing or U.S. Carriers. Jealous of what? You Airbus fans
124 Col : Lets do a reality check here. Gordon left CO the same way he found it, loosing money and in trouble. 380 Customers are profitable airlines. In the rea
125 Avek00 : Tell that to Lufthansa, which LOST MONEY last quarter...
126 Stirling : I have read the words from Bethune over and over, and yet, I am still unable to fully understand what exactly he has said that deserves such brutal an
127 OO-AOG : You know ... "looking thousand better" is interesting for spotters ... but in aviation business the "look" of the aircraft doesn't really matter. Wha
128 Post contains links Columba : If you want to see the real size of the A380 in comparison with a A320 and a terminal building check out this picture : http://www.5280high.com/aviati
129 Mariner : NW727251ADV: I'm not exactly clear what your point is. It is okay to criticise the A380 but not okay to defend it? Okay. if they're the rules. cheers
130 Columba : And I am tired of hearing all the senseless the Airbus bashing from some people as well. Face it : Both sides are equally bad !!! Well from the looks
131 Keesje : Gordon is a great guy and selected for Co - B767-400 - B767-200ER (ng) - B737-900 - B757-300 Co was not the only carrier selecting them, but unique in
132 GoAibusGo : For people of the USA, Bethune's statement: "really rocks and is right on" For Europeans: "dumb statement" For the rest of the world : "50% good state
133 Col : Avek00, Can't argue with the fact that LH lost money last qtr. But LH sould make a profit for the year. We don't have many carriers in that situation.
134 PlaneSmart : The point is that he's angling for a board position with B. This is part of his selection campaign.
135 Col : NW727251ADV Thank you for you kind comments, coming from you means so much to me. I am also glad that my comments have no bearing on your life, and yo
136 Bennett123 : I guess that it is easy for Gordo, but we don't all have executive jets. Besides most of the point that he is making applies to the B747-400, especial
137 Post contains images Columba : I was not referring to Bethune´s statement but yours. You were you saying that you are tired of all the Airbus fans on a.net complaining about the j
138 Mariner : Um - you might calm down a little. Nobody is anybody on these forums - or everyone is somebody. So - call me old fashioned (I am) - but I think you o
139 Post contains images Udo : If the A380 looks like Concorde for you, I recommend tu buy some glasses... So what happens every week? So just because there aren't reports on any s
140 M404 : Come on. we might as well get used to it. The 380 or something near like it is here to stay. It won't go away no matter what country or company make i
141 Post contains images AC777233LR : If flying with 600 people and getting through customs with 600 people and grabbing bags with 600 people don't satisfy Mr Bethune he will fly on his ow
142 Zeekiel : Do you consider me to be an Airbus supporter? Also, now you are differentiating between American and non-American. What evidence do you have to suppo
143 Avek00 : To the contrary, most travelers (and for the sake of argument, I am referring to longhaul international pax) WON'T be affected the A380 (except for t
144 Carpethead : Mr. Bethune is entitled to his opinions, here are mine. 1. 45 minutes to disembark an 380. Wahhhhhhaaaaa!!!! Unless it has one boarding bridge and its
145 Col : Maybe I didn't explain myself too well, and I will Singaporegirl for reference. Gordo did good for CO, got the Gold Card myself. But he is only known
146 PlaneSmart : Gordo is a slow learner when it comes to thinking outside the USA. Implying and actually telling airline execs and politicians how to do business was
147 AvObserver : "What was "in it" for Bethune to make these anti-A380 comments ($$$!)." I doubt it; he's always been highly opinionated and has long embraced Boeing's
148 Atmx2000 : Of course that would be an apples and oranges comparison. None of these airlines have any significant domestic aviation routes where they face oodles
149 OzGlobal : What is the difference between a Y class seat on a current 747, 777, 767, A330, etc...???? In what way has the 747 specifically reduced passenger spa
150 Post contains images NIKV69 : Oh My, UDO is in rare form! I don't think the 380 is going to meet the same fate the SST did. I feel it will not sell as well as Airbus thinks and th
151 B707Stu : I'll take his opinion of amateur enthusiasts anyday. He may end up being wrong but I seriously doubt it.
152 B707Stu : Because they haven't earned the right through retirement.
153 RayChuang : I think we have to remember that the A380 serves a very specific market: long range flights between major hub airports around the world. That's someth
154 Uaalltheway : I forgot he retired! Anyways.. I think even though he does pretty much slam it to a pulp, he makes some very valid points. I, for one, wouldn't want t
155 Co757 : I'll 3rd that !
156 Co757 : UMMM, He already has a seat at Boeing, and one at Continental.
157 TACAA320 : Jojojo...
158 B707Stu : My apologies. If Gordo is a sitting Board Member at Boeing then I withdraw my comments. Nothing he says could be seriously taken as objective, even if
159 Post contains images Udo : Oh no, I'm still warming up! I'd take the opinion of AF's, EK's, LH's and SQ's CEOs over an ex-Conti guy any day. But there are many other retired CE
160 Art : Did he say this about the 747? If not, why not, if he feels the need to say it (amend 400 to 600) about the A380?
161 Post contains images PM : Well, maybe not the bit about 599 pax... I'd be surprised. If you mean "manufacturer" to be the one who manufactures the most planes in 2005, Boeing
162 Post contains links Avek00 : No need to apologize to Udo - Bethune does NOT sit on the Boeing BOD: http://www.boeing.com/corp_gov/board_directors.html
163 RAMPRAT980 : Could you imagine four, five or six of these "big bertha's" arriving at the same time. The potential chaos in the terminal. In Europe maybe they don't
164 NoUFO : You can rest assured we do. But if four, five or six A380s arrive at the same time - than this would prove that the plane is well needed, wouldn't it
165 B707Stu : " target=_blank>http://www.boeing.com/corp_gov/board....html OK, now I withdraw my apology and stand by my earlier posts. Sorry Udo.
166 Post contains links Columba : On the A380, Leahy sees "good prospects" with some US Majors...we are in discussion with the two American Majors that currently operate 747s," he sta
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