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Warnings Start About UAL  
User currently offlineF9HNLPLZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 108 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10342 times:

Here is an email that is circulating from the Travelexpert.com:

"1. A judge Tuesday approved cash-starved United Airline's request
to hand over its pension obligations to the Pension Benefit
Guaranty Corp (i.e. you and me, the taxpayer). United's unions
have recently been threatening to strike if this came to pass.
While the bankruptcy judge revoked the right of the unions to
strike, there is the possibility of "go slow" actions known as
CHAOS (create havoc around our system) that can create
significant delays and flight cancellations. So watch the news
carefully over the next few days before you book on United. If
any strike or "go slow" occurs, United will likely enter a
death spiral as travelers book away, resulting in the threat
of liquidation."

So see, if the strike stuff continues or CHAOS happens, it will for sure do bad things to UNITED. I challenge the people in support of the strikes and CHAOS to prove this stupid Travel Agent email wrong and DON'T STRIKE!!


Frontier Airlines, A Whole Different Animal. Maybe some day to Hawaii???
72 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10324 times:

Go on strike and close down the company you work for.... for good. Sounds like a good plan to me  Smile

User currently offlineSanjet From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10254 times:

Quoting N754PR (Reply 1):
Go on strike and close down the company you work for.... for good. Sounds like a good plan to me

At one point, you have to say no N754PR. These employees sacrificed a lot already and I hope this can get this solved soon.



Will Fly For Food!
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10255 times:

Quoting N754PR (Reply 1):
Go on strike and close down the company you work for.... for good. Sounds like a good plan to me

Sounds like a no-win situation to me. The workers are probably going to get screwed either way.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineAa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10225 times:

Both the FA's and the IAM have now stated the will not strike. So UAL is safe.

User currently offlineUALramperORD From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10223 times:

Quoting N754PR (Reply 1):
Go on strike and close down the company you work for.... for good. Sounds like a good plan to me

It beats working for 12 dollars an hour doing ramp work.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10195 times:

Quoting Aa777flyer (Reply 4):
So UAL is safe.

Even without the strike they're still losing money, even worse than last year at this time.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineF9HNLPLZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 108 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10172 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 6):
Even without the strike they're still losing money, even worse than last year at this time.

But most of the loss this time was the bankruptcy stuff. Once they get this taken care of, they will be in the same position as everyone else, except Southwest and Jetblue.



Frontier Airlines, A Whole Different Animal. Maybe some day to Hawaii???
User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10145 times:

UAL has $2.2 billion in cash, and much of their first quarter loss was attributable to non-cash charges. They're not out of the woods by a long shot, but so long as there is no long-term labor disruption, they can certainly make it to next winter. This is the seasonally stronger time of year, and if fuel were to remain under $50 and even go a bit lower, they should add to their cash for the next few months.

User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10072 times:

Quoting UALramperORD (Reply 5):
It beats working for 12 dollars an hour doing ramp work. Yeah sure

Quit.

AAndrew


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24888 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10048 times:

The unions are involved in negotiations with United regarding reaching a settlement before the judge rules.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050512/united_airlines.html?.v=15

I have read the companies proposal along with the IAM and AMFA counter proposals (available on their respective web sites) They are really not that far apart, with the unions basically having conceded to most of the companies needs. One must remember both the IAM and AMFA have been working for months under a court imposed temporary cuts which mirror the voluntary cuts taken by other unions in 2004. Much of these talks basically are to formalize the current terms of the temporary cuts.

I venture to guess AMFA is nearly complete, with IAM taking a bit longer.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9968 times:

ualramperord,
dont know your situation but.....try and find a job in chicago that needs ramp experience that is gonna pay more than 12.00/hr your not fooling anyone but yourself if you think that you will be picked up by another carrier and make the big dinero...



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9864 times:

*sigh*

Yet another anti-UA thread...they're making progress guys. Maybe not fast enough for you, but they're making it nonetheless. Look at the breakdown of the 1Q report. Yeah, they lost money, but look how they lost it. The base operation is showing a strong comeback as the result of reorganization. Were it not for higher fuel costs, UA would have had an operational profit for the entire quarter. Their cash balance increased during the quarter. Nearly 75% of the loss was due to one-time fees and other reorganization costs that won't have to be paid once they're out of Chapter 11.

There is work to be done, yes. But UA is far from dead, and I think we've discussed the situtation to death.


User currently offlineLnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1608 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9789 times:

Quoting UALramperORD (Reply 5):
t beats working for 12 dollars an hour doing ramp work.

You'd rather work for your 25$ a week strike pay than make 12 dollars an hour?

Man, that makes a lot of sense.

1011yyz



Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9620 times:

freindlyskies,
its only in canales best interst to make this work and put a positive spin on it to dish out to the minions...funny thing is this strike vote was nothing more than to divert the attention away from the fact that they are stealing a boat load of $$$$$$ every month away from the ground workers and blame it on the company......factiod for all of those that are drinking from the well of rev jim jones canale.....IF and thats a big IF that randy pulls off a perfecta and get some paycuts back to us...guess what...we pay more in union dues....remember minions...our dues are based on our hourly salary...



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9526 times:

Quoting F9HNLPLZ (Thread starter):
I challenge the people in support of the strikes and CHAOS to prove this stupid Travel Agent email wrong and DON'T STRIKE!!

CHALLENGE THIS...

United is already in a death spiral. The well compensated senior management IS NOT MAKING SACRIFICES that earn the respect of the rank and file and the business plan is destined to fail.

Sometimes you have to take a stand to protect your own sense of self worth. I was an Eastern Air Lines employee who participated in the strike against Lorenzo. We lost our jobs but Lorenzo was forever banned from the airline industry. Did we "win"? You bet we did. We lost our jobs but we kept our dignity and life went on....we got jobs at other companies and it's behind us now.

Today I'm with Delta, a fantastic company. Delta management, starting with Grinstein and all the way down, has taken the same pay cuts as the rest of us and is sacrificing every day just like the rest of us. If (when) Delta files bankruptcy, the employees will be behind management and we will recover.

(P.S. Good travel agents aren't "stupid", they're priceless.)



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25012 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9449 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 15):
If (when) Delta files bankruptcy, the employees will be behind management and we will recover.

Um - easy. Your CEO is so determined not to file that the cash balance is being drained to a precarious position.

It costs a deal of money to go into Chapter 11. You should cross your fingers that Delta has enough, because if it is delayed much longer, they won't have enough.

Or - to put it another way - people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24888 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9434 times:

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 15):
The well compensated senior management IS NOT MAKING SACRIFICES that earn the respect of the rank and file

Were did you get the executive management team are not making pay sacrifices? Like all rank and file employees the management has taken repeated cuts since 9/11.
If you are talking about the bonuses received by members of the management that the unions want to make such a big deal about, these bonuses are exactly the same one each and every United employee received as part of the company meeting performance goals during early 2005. These performance bonus payments were a part of the previously union agreed upon paycuts that had been in place since 2004.

There have been plenty of threads here previously discussing pay rates for the UA CEO. One must keep in mind the board went looking for him and had to make him an attractive offer. The man headed one of the largest corporations in the US previously and certainly was not going to come over to United and work for pennies on the dollar.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBigB From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 596 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9395 times:

I say, let em strike.


ETSN Baber, USN
User currently offlineAA B777-200 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2001, 505 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9376 times:

Jetdeltamsy,

Matt... Thanks for a great reaction. I totally agree. It's about time people take a stand!
Where do you draw the line when it comes to making sacrifices.

But I do keep my fingers crossed for all the thousands of UAL employees!


User currently offlineZippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9358 times:

Quoting F9HNLPLZ (Thread starter):
"go slow" actions known as
CHAOS (create havoc around our system)

Here in the State Of Maryland, this is business as usual and we get to pay some hefty taxes!

Seriously, this sounds like a smear spam email. Look before you leep and good luck to you all!



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineHoya From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9337 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 6):
Even without the strike they're still losing money, even worse than last year at this time.

UA made a $54 million operating profit in March. This means that all the service cuts they imposed in March (remember, they were supposed to reduce domestic flying by like 10% or something around that in March) are working in producing positive cash flow. Key quote from the article linked below:

"Operating results are a good gauge of an airline’s performance, Mr. Gorden says, because they don’t include bookkeeping transactions that drive up net losses, but that don’t necessarily drain cash.

Air travel is a seasonal business that typically peaks in July and falls off during the fall and winter months. So, the fact that United performed well in March typically would bode well for its performance during the key summer months."

Source: Crain's Chicago Business
http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=16478

[Edited 2005-05-13 07:10:11]


Hoya Saxa!!
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9126 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting UALramperORD (Reply 5):
Quoting N754PR (Reply 1):
Go on strike and close down the company you work for.... for good. Sounds like a good plan to me

It beats working for 12 dollars an hour doing ramp work.

$12 per hour is better then getting nothing if you were unemployeed


User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9115 times:

Quoting F9HNLPLZ (Thread starter):
So watch the news
carefully over the next few days before you book on United. If
any strike or "go slow" occurs, United will likely enter a
death spiral as travelers book away, resulting in the threat
of liquidation."

You know...it's CRAP like this that REEEEEEAALLLLLLLYYYYY pisses me off. It's ignorant comments based on misinformtion and assumptions that just might kill UA anyway. Fucking ignorant people. Listen to whatever the "industry analysts" and the "experts" say...they book away from UA, and it becomes a self-fufilling prophecy. Remind me again why I hate the fucking ignorant news media again...

Quoting Mariner (Reply 16):
It costs a deal of money to go into Chapter 11. You should cross your fingers that Delta has enough, because if it is delayed much longer, they won't have enough.

Or - to put it another way - people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Yes sir...100% dead on. UA had $3B in cash, PLUS VALUABLE ASSETS, to put up as collateral when they entered Ch. 11 in 12/2002. Guess what? DL has NONE OF THAT...IF...IF...they sell their two regional carriers...they can DELAY a filing (assuming the tough revenue and fuel cost enviornment persists.) for Ch. 11. UA was able to secure DIP financiing using their LHR and NRT slots as collateral, plus their uncumbered aircraft as of 12/9/2002. DL ain't got them apples...

We'll see. Let's celebrate UA's death just yet, OK? UA is the one who will psot $54mm/month LESS going forward. They will now get exit financing needed to emerge. If DL files, maybe they reemerge, and maybe they don't.


User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9042 times:

Quoting F9HNLPLZ (Thread starter):
So see, if the strike stuff continues or CHAOS happens

Remember, CHAOS means....

Customers
Have
American Airlines
On
Speed Dial


25 Post contains images UAMAYBACH1239 : I ca You are right you dont know the situation.......
26 Post contains images UAMAYBACH1239 : What have you been smoking ?? I'll take 2
27 UAMAYBACH1239 : Actually its not. Unemployment compensation is better.
28 Post contains images UAMAYBACH1239 : I challenge you not to write anymore threads.
29 Post contains images UAMAYBACH1239 : I can only wish for you to be in this same position, and have sarcasm directed at yourself.... I forgot the air is thin up there.
30 Post contains images UAMAYBACH1239 : Its not about just 12 dollars its a number of things. Its for health care, retirement , workers rights. Its not about giving up benefits either. the
31 Post contains images KC135TopBoom : That's $24,960 a year, not counting overtime or holiday time. A pretty good (not a great) wage, unless you have to pay all those Chicago and Ill taxe
32 AussieItaliano : LOL! This reminds me of the quote from the movie airplane, "I say, let 'em crash!"
33 B707Stu : What's that sound I hear, I think it's the sound of the death knell.
34 ZKEYE : I was prompted to join by some of these anti management posts. Union people always seem to feel that they are owed a living by the company that employ
35 Zvezda : If your life is so bad, why don't you just end it? Or at least quit the job you so hate? If you choose the latter, be sure to practice saying "Would
36 Galapagapop : Actually thats a low wage and well below the average for the US.
37 Post contains images F9HNLPLZ : Ah excuse me, but this is America and I can do what I want, as long as its legal. I posted this thread because that email goes out to about 1 million
38 Bicoastal : Word from my sources at United Customer Service and Ramp at Dulles is that a strike would start on Thursday, May 19, if an agreement isn't reached wit
39 Post contains images AA767400 : Yes because Ramping is the same as flipping burgers. Please....I don't see anyone jumping off a cliff.
40 Post contains images LO231 : It pisses me off that some of the travel agents are so stupid. As for us, we DO issue UA tickets and continue to do so as long as they keep flying to
41 SATX : You mean, just like all the bitching about unions being out to destroy whatever company they contract with is nonsense? In the US, some CEO's are pai
42 ToTheStars : Travel Agents opinions? They don't have the power that they once had. Much luck to the hard working employees at UA from a former TWer.
43 Post contains images DAYflyer : Sure, lets shut the place down for good...that will really show them who the boss is....... When they lay off 29 unneeded VP's of this or that, then
44 Post contains links Christao17 : Arrggh! It is so frustrating when people make statements that simply are factually incorrect. The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation is not funded f
45 Slider : Don't look at the article on CNN.com in the Travel section then. Focuses on the threat of "booking away" and interviews several fliers.
46 ExFATboy : Why is it "ignorant" for a travel agent to book away if they're seeing report after report that indicates a strike might be imminent? A travel agent'
47 Post contains images S12PPL : And it's a United backer to the rescue!! Let's face it...People that are critical of United will always find bad news to report, and backers of Unite
48 Access-Air : Actually, I would personally welcome $12.00 per hour as I have been working for Travel Agency 100 miles west of a Chicago and STILL make less than $9.
49 MrComet : This is a load of horsecrap. If you don't like UAL or any carrier: quit. Don't bring the carrier down with you. That's your idea of dignity? Sounds l
50 Post contains images LO231 : You"d be surprised.... At least in Europe where on-line shopping isn't that extensive as in the US Regards, LO231
51 Incitatus : Salaries are ultimately determined in the job market, though small markets (e.g., for CEOs) are easier to manipulate. As for some employees being wor
52 SFOerik : If you don't like your job then quit...this is one of those times to leave the emotion out of it and move on. This is exactly how UAL management is ha
53 Jetdeltamsy : Horsecrap? Perhaps. It's the opinion of someone intimately involved in the mess. You've never walked in my shoes, or the shoes of anyone who worked f
54 CactusA319 : $12/hour ain't great, but it's more than what I used to make as a ramp rat at MDW a few years ago. Folks are going to have to get used to the fact th
55 Jeb94 : The travesty of a ramper complaining that he's making $12 per hour is that there are mechanics out there, people that had to spend upwards of 2 years
56 Post contains images Jamie757 : I was thinking exactly that! Lol Rgds.
57 TPASXM787 : Keep buying! Every fare the sell at a loss pushes them further to the bottom!
58 GoogleBoy : It is a manifestation of Worldwide Oil Production about to Peak which increases fuel prices. Please have a look at the thread "Peaking of World Oil Pr
59 AC777233LR : Bethlehem steel got away with it, then US Air, now United looks like they will too. Walking away from pension obligations is a serious thing and the P
60 Aa757first : Yes, but what special skills do rampers possess? I mean its what, a four week training course? Ask any ramper what he or she would be doing if they w
61 Arrow : This is overkill. These employees aren't losing their pensions, they are losing a portion of them -- up to 25%. I'm not going to argue that's a good
62 Jetdeltamsy : Andrew, This is about social justice. It's something you come to appreciate as you mature. At your young age, you simply don't have enough life exper
63 1rocco : AA757first, If I was a ramper I would be so pissed off at your comment. How would you like to be out on the ramp at -50 lifting and throwing bags 70+#
64 AR385 : I would say that the some battles are lost, in the victory itself. I do not know, but I don't think that the present U.S. administration would let a
65 1rocco : AR385, Wont touch that one with a ten foot pole.
66 ZKEYE : Exactly - and if you don't like having your sense of self worth screwed with then leave - don't try and sink the company. It still employs people who
67 UAORD2000 : I am a UA flight attendant, and would like to say that the whole pension issue is enough to really piss us all off (namely people with less than 15 ye
68 Uadc8contrail : UAORD2000, i was at den medical on tuesday for my random drug test(always falls on a tuesday or thats what the calender shows)while i was waiting in t
69 UAORD2000 : Ufau was gaining steam before all of this mess. It seems at though they dont want to be the union representing the flight attendants right now. I'm no
70 LO231 : Days? All our passengers with SN fold-out were reaccomodated within an hour, I didn't have time to call SN and our customers were offered another iti
71 AC777233LR : Actually I have been to Russia, but I will grant you I'm no expert. One of the points I was making is that the PBGC is already underfunded, the more
72 BAW716 : HERE WE GO AGAIN... I swear I've written so many posts on this subject...it seems to be just going around and around and around. You know what, its th
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